Michael the Arch Angel = Jesus??? Again. Sorry!!!

[yeshuaslavejeff]

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[mmksparbud]

He's not the leader of the angels; he's God the Son, Saviour, Lord, King and redeemer of mankind.



Michael, the angel, was given the human name Jesus??
Of course he was!

It was God the eternal Word who became flesh, not an angel.

He is not an angel---He is uncreated, He is the Captain of the Host--Michael the archangel---Captain of the host that Joshua bowed down to and worshipped. No angel can be worshipped. No angel will accept worship.

 

[Strong in Him]

People believe that it is the name he take when he goes to war.

"People" can believe what they like; I'm sticking with Scripture.
Demons were always driven out in the name of Jesus, not the name of Michael. Often Jesus wouldn't let the demons speak because they knew who he was. Jesus said that people would persecute the disciples because of him, not Michael. He said we would have whatever we asked in his name - not Michael's. Jesus is our mediator, intercessor and the One who sealed the new covenant with his blood, Matthew 26:28 - not Michael.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Michael* STILL gets paid REALLY GOOD THOUGH - A perFeCT RETIREMENT PLAN TOO (if he ever retires)





Michael the archangel, on the archangel plan. NOT the Messiah Savior or King.

 

[Strong in Him]

He is not an angel---He is uncreated, He is the Captain of the Host--Michael the archangel---Captain of the host that Joshua bowed down to and worshipped. No angel can be worshipped. No angel will accept worship.

I'm sorry my post was so unclear.
Let me be clear about this; Jesus is not the archangel Michael. As you say, no angel will accept worship; they are messengers, servants.
Jesus is due all honour and worship and one day EVERY knee will bow before him.

 

[mmksparbud]

John 1, Hebrews 1, and many other passages show that Jesus is not an angel.

Archangel doesn't mean He is an angel---He is the commander of all the angels---He is the Captain of the Host--
Jos 5:14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
Jos 5:15 And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

No man can worship an angel, no angel will accept the worship of man, no angel can make anything holy, The Father and the Son only can do that.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Archangel doesn't mean He is an angel---He is the commander of all the angels---He is the Captain of the Host--
Jos 5:14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
Jos 5:15 And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

No man can worship an angel, no angel will accept the worship of man, no angel can make anything holy, The Father and the Son only can do that.

oops. in this one post, you are showing conflicting information.

No worries though.

Jesus the fullness of God will never be demoted to angel, nor to archangel.

Jesus is the commander of the universe , if you will.
An archangel is His captain appointed by the Father or by the Son.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No man can worship an angel, no angel will accept the worship of man, no angel can make anything holy, The Father and the Son only can do that.

Actually, even men can make something holy.

Also, a lot of men, not just fallen angels, worship things, worship other men, worship idols, and so on...

They probably get punished for that, but men and fallen angels do worship things and created beings whether men or angels.

Some even tried to in the BIBLE, but the Angel(s) told them when not to , and so on.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Some SDA's have been misled about this. They don't realize yet that they have to test every teaching, not accept it, just because it is accepted by others in the church, or even taught wrongly by some pastors or leaders in the church.
Same in other churches all over the world - everything must be tested and proven truth BEFORE accepting it, no matter how many other correct teachings , if any, they have right.

 

[mmksparbud]

oops. in this one post, you are showing conflicting information.

No worries though.

Jesus the fullness of God will never be demoted to angel, nor to archangel.

Jesus is the commander of the universe , if you will.
An archangel is His captain appointed by the Father or by the Son.

Again---no angel can be worshipped, no angel will accept worship, no angel can make anything Holy----Joshua worshipped the captain of the host---which is another title for, and means the same as, Michael.

Michael is not an angel----He is commander in chief of them---He created them. Of course He is commander of the universe---He created everything. The President of this country is also called---the Commander in Chief of the armed forces. Does not detract from him being the President of the country. Just read the bible. It explains itself quite well. Put all the verses together, there is no other answer than Michael is, indeed, Jesus---Captain of the Host.

 

[mmksparbud]

Some SDA's have been misled about this. They don't realize yet that they have to test every teaching, not accept it, just because it is accepted by others in the church, or even taught wrongly by some pastors or leaders in the church.
Same in other churches all over the world - everything must be tested and proven truth BEFORE accepting it, no matter how many other correct teachings , if any, they have right.

Many non-SDA's have been mislead by the concept that Michael is not Jesus. The bible says He is and the bible has the last word on the subject. Doesn't matter how many pastors, scholars, teachers or others say otherwise.

 

[mmksparbud]

Actually, even men can make something holy.

Also, a lot of men, not just fallen angels, worship things, worship other men, worship idols, and so on...

They probably get punished for that, but men and fallen angels do worship things and created beings whether men or angels.

Some even tried to in the BIBLE, but the Angel(s) told them when not to , and so on.

Sorry, but no man can make anything holy. The Pope himself can't do it, though he likes to think he can. Me saying that the chair I sit on is holy doesn't make it so---If God says something is holy---it is holy. The ground God stands on is holy ground---that is why Joshua had to take his shoes off and worship the Captain of the host. You have not addressed that passage.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Michael is not an angel----He is commander in chief of them---He created them.

sda teachings like this don't hold water. was already proven false hundreds of years ago, even before it was well known / taught in sda places.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Sorry, but no man can make anything holy. The Pope himself can't do it, though he likes to think he can. Me saying that the chair I sit on is holy doesn't make it so---If God says something is holy---it is holy. The ground God stands on is holy ground---that is why Joshua had to take his shoes off and worship the Captain of the host. You have not addressed that passage.

It seems you are not interested in "that passage" (Scripture) at all,
preferring as you post about sda (man's) doctrines opposed to all Scripture.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Many non-SDA's have been mislead by the concept that Michael is not Jesus. The bible says He is and the bible has the last word on the subject. Doesn't matter how many pastors, scholars, teachers or others say otherwise.

Do you realize this is topsy = turvy ? the exact opposite of what all Scripture says ?

 

[mmksparbud]

sda teachings like this don't hold water. was already proven false hundreds of years ago, even before it was well known / taught in sda places.

It seems you are not interested in "that passage" (Scripture) at all,
preferring as you post about sda (man's) doctrines opposed to all Scripture.

Do you realize this is topsy = turvy ? the exact opposite of what all Scripture says ?

I have given scriptures after scripture, I have not quoted SDA writings---I get man's opinions in return! Which do you think holds the truth?

Jos 5:14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
Jos 5:15 And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

not

not Scripture when you propose false teaching of the sda.

Sorry, the sda doctrine misses the mark (is wrong, totally).
Who Is Michael the Archangel?
Is It Possible to Identify Michael the Archangel with Jesus?
The biblical evidence does not substantiate this. The fact that Michael is called a chief prince only means that he has authority over other angels- not over everything that exists.
In addition, Jesus is never called the chief prince in Scripture. On the contrary He is the king of kings and Lord of Lords.

And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS" (Revelation 19:16).


Though Michael has protected Israel, it is as God's representative. It is ultimately the Lord, not Michael, who is protecting His chosen people.

Voice Like

The fact that Christ comes with the voice, or cry of command, like an archangel does not mean that He is one. The voice He uses will be "like" or "as" that of an archangel. In other words, a powerful voice.

One Of The Chief Princes

In addition, Michael is called one of the chief princes.

But the prince of the kingdom of Persia opposed me twenty-one days. So Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, and I left him there with the prince of the kingdom of Persia (Daniel 10:13).


This means that he is one of a group of princes. We do not know how large the group is, but he is not in a class by himself. The Bible says that Jesus is the unique Son of God.

No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made Him known (John 1:18).


Michael Highest Of Angels

Michael is the highest of the angels - an order of created beings. He is one of the angels, he is not the Creator of the angels as the Bible says that Jesus is.

for by Him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers - all things have been created through Him and for Him (Colossians 1:16).


Jude

There is a further problem with the identification of Jesus with Michael. The Book of Jude says:

But when the archangel Michael contended with the Devil and disputed about the body of Moses, he did not dare to bring a condemnation of slander against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" (Jude 9).


Michael is obviously not the Lord. He could not rebuke the Devil on his own, but rather called upon the Lord to rebuke him. Jesus has no such problem with the Devil - He personally rebuked him, since He is the Lord.

Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.' " Then the Devil left Him, and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him (Matthew 4:10,11).


His Name Bears Testimony

Michael, the one who is closest in proximity to the Lord at the top of the angelic creation, bears testimony to the great gap between the Creator and the created. His name means, "who is like God?" The answer, of course, is no one. The closer one gets to God, the more they realize their own nothingness and His greatness. Neither Michael, nor any of the angels, is like God.

Summary

There is no biblical evidence to equate Michael the archangel with Jesus. To the contrary, Jesus and Michael are two different personages. Michael is the highest of the angels - an order of created beings while Jesus is the uncreated .. God the Son."

 

[Ken Rank]

I don't know about Daniel or the language.
But Michael the arch angel is an arch angel - angels are created beings.
Jesus is the Word, John 1:14, eternal, John 1:1, divine, through whom ALL things, including angels, were created, John 1:1-2, Colossians 1:15-16.

As the title of your thread correctly states, they are different people.

@icedragon101 This is the bottom line, as far as I am concerned. Angels/messengers are created beings. In the beginning weren't angels, in the beginning there was nothing, save for the Word, and the Word was God. Since Yeshua/Jesus is not a created being, then he isn't Michael.

So, Michael, though an angel, remains and will remain something of a mystery. We're not going to come to any great revelation here because there just isn't enough information on him. But one day... in the Kingdom to come.

Blessings.
Ken

 

[mmksparbud]

not Scripture when you propose false teaching of the sda.

Sorry, the sda doctrine misses the mark (is wrong, totally).
Who Is Michael the Archangel?
Is It Possible to Identify Michael the Archangel with Jesus?
The biblical evidence does not substantiate this. The fact that Michael is called a chief prince only means that he has authority over other angels- not over everything that exists.
In addition, Jesus is never called the chief prince in Scripture. On the contrary He is the king of kings and Lord of Lords.

And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS" (Revelation 19:16).


Though Michael has protected Israel, it is as God's representative. It is ultimately the Lord, not Michael, who is protecting His chosen people.

Voice Like

The fact that Christ comes with the voice, or cry of command, like an archangel does not mean that He is one. The voice He uses will be "like" or "as" that of an archangel. In other words, a powerful voice.

One Of The Chief Princes

In addition, Michael is called one of the chief princes.

But the prince of the kingdom of Persia opposed me twenty-one days. So Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, and I left him there with the prince of the kingdom of Persia (Daniel 10:13).


This means that he is one of a group of princes. We do not know how large the group is, but he is not in a class by himself. The Bible says that Jesus is the unique Son of God.

No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made Him known (John 1:18).


Michael Highest Of Angels

Michael is the highest of the angels - an order of created beings. He is one of the angels, he is not the Creator of the angels as the Bible says that Jesus is.

for by Him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers - all things have been created through Him and for Him (Colossians 1:16).


Jude

There is a further problem with the identification of Jesus with Michael. The Book of Jude says:

But when the archangel Michael contended with the Devil and disputed about the body of Moses, he did not dare to bring a condemnation of slander against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" (Jude 9).


Michael is obviously not the Lord. He could not rebuke the Devil on his own, but rather called upon the Lord to rebuke him. Jesus has no such problem with the Devil - He personally rebuked him, since He is the Lord.

Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.' " Then the Devil left Him, and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him (Matthew 4:10,11).


His Name Bears Testimony

Michael, the one who is closest in proximity to the Lord at the top of the angelic creation, bears testimony to the great gap between the Creator and the created. His name means, "who is like God?" The answer, of course, is no one. The closer one gets to God, the more they realize their own nothingness and His greatness. Neither Michael, nor any of the angels, is like God.

Summary

There is no biblical evidence to equate Michael the archangel with Jesus. To the contrary, Jesus and Michael are two different personages. Michael is the highest of the angels - an order of created beings while Jesus is the uncreated .. God the Son."

You are the one mentioning SDA---I've not quoted anything from their writings.
Jesus has had many names---in the OT He was never called Jesus. King of Kings is another title--Doesn't mean He is a man--a king of this earth only. Or even just the King above all earthly Kings--He is king of the universe.


No, it doesn't say with a voice like the archangel---
1Th_4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Michael is not an angel, He is not a created being---He created the angels, which means messengers---He is the Commander, the greatest messenger---and means one who is like God---"The greatest messenger who is like God." That is not a question.

Yes, He contended with Satan over the Body of Moses---Jesus, during His temptation in the wilderness, always quoted scripture. It was not until the very last that He said;
Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
He did not say----It is written thou shalt worship me--but the Lord. Jesus always pointed to the Father as Lord.



Please address these scriptures:

Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
Dan_9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Dan_12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Act_3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Act_5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Rev_1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,


xodus 3:1-7 ...'Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb. And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows.'

Jos 5:14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
Jos 5:15 And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus is the second person of the Trinity (i.e. Trinity = The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit).
Jesus is uncreated and eternal.

Jesus is referred to as the "Angel of the Lord" in the OT, but that does not mean He was Michael the archangel, and that does not mean Jesus is a an actual created being, or created angel, and neither does it mean that Jesus possessed an angelic being already in existence. I believe Jesus took on the empty soulless shell of the body of angels before the Incarnation. Jesus needed to cover His glory so as not to kill people when he visited them. The angel of the Lord makes many appearances in the OT and is referred to as GOD. Angel of course means "messenger," too.