America is the Best, Most Free, and Most Prosperous Country on Earth: Change My Mind

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It’s news to me that UK , Canada , Germany doesn’t have freedom of Speech!

Germany is a good example here - in the news last month,
it is now illegal to advertise a cure in Germany. (cures that have been used in Germany and elsewhere for hundreds if not thousands of years)

 

[SimplyMe]

Yep our system needs some serious work. Unfortunately much of the left only sees one option. Many on the right have tried to get other ideas in, bit they are shot down.

I'm curious, exactly what ideas has the right wanted to try? I keep hearing how they have these plans but it seems to come down to "repeal Obamacare" -- with no plan on what they might do to replace it.

 

[usexpat97]

Germany definitely does not have freedom of speech. But it's not everything; that is just one criterion. Americans and UKers live in Germany, return, and can't shut up about how everything is better in Germany all the time. (although the UKers, the freedom of speech is even less, because they have to be on their constant PC watch all the time, both in Germany and the UK)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I'm curious, exactly what ideas has the right wanted to try? I keep hearing how they have these plans but it seems to come down to "repeal Obamacare" -- with no plan on what they might do to replace it.

As far as seen in the news/ internet/ etc, no one is being honest, nor has anyone presented a plan openly that could correct the current system. It appears from Scripture that no one will nor can until Jesus returns. (i.e. because "it"(system or person(s) in charge) "deceives the whole world")

 

[Halbhh]

Earlier in this thread some other posters mentioned specific studies that have rated the nations. Look up these studies for the metrics they used. As an example, the USA has some of the best medical facilities in the world and cutting edge medical research but accessing medical treatment is a real problem for many USAnians primarily because of cost.

A few years ago a friend was vacationing in Florida. He likes to bicycle but he took a bad fall and had his wife drive him to a hospital ER. He was there a couple of hours and recieved prompt and professional care. They gave him an x-ray, a tetanus shot, a half dozen stitches and cleaned up his road rash. The bill was $1800.00 !!! They returned to Canada and he went in to his own doctor to have the stitches removed. The doctor commented that if an American recieved the identical treatment in a Canadian hospital ER he would have been charged about $200.00

Comparative outcomes -------- Canada / US :
per capita medical spending --- $4500 / $8500
percent of GDP ---------------------11.2 / 17.7
public share –---------------------- 70% / 48%,
doctors per 1000 -------------------- 2.4 / 2.5
nurses per 1000 ----------------------9.3 / 11.1
life expectancy ----------------------- 81 / 79
smoking rate --------------------- 15.7% / 14.8%
obesity rate -----------------------25.4% / 36.5%.
As you can readily see, Canada achieves comparable or superior outcomes at close to half the expense and every citizen regardless of status or income has equal access.

Here's a graphic to help illustrate:

List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia

More graphs, various related health care data graphed here:
Health Care Spending as a Percentage of GDP, 1980–2013 | Commonwealth Fund

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The Economic Evaluation of Complementary and Alternative Medicine
... ... ...
"... ... ... However, with rising healthcare costs, insurers and policy makers have expressed concerns about the cost-effectiveness of healthcare, both conventional and CAM. Although more prospective outcome studies are needed to evaluate the cost-effectiveness of CAM, there have been published research studies demonstrating that CAM is cost-effective and may present cost-savings due to inexpensive treatments, lower technology interventions, and its emphasis on preventative medicine. If healthcare reform proceeds in a direction favoring lower-cost approaches, further integration of CAM practitioners, including naturopathic primary care providers, into healthcare delivery systems may be beneficial. Here we review the literature regarding the cost-effectiveness of CAM and naturopathic medicine." ... ... ...

 

[Halbhh]

None of them do. Speech is dictated to them by their government.

If you look at the big UK/London newspapers, they express a wide range of views, very emphatically. Often critical of the government positions/policies.

A few I've seen over the years enough to know:
The Independent
The Guardian
The Times of London

 

[renniks]

I agree the actual threat is greater from the factors you list. That doesn't lesson the anxiety caused to our children. No child living in America should need to worry about being shot at school.

No, but until we get back to having real family structures again, I doubt it changes.

 

[98cwitr]

If you look at the big UK/London newspapers, they express a wide range of views, very emphatically. Often critical of the government positions/policies.

A few I've seen over the years enough to know:
The Independent
The Guardian
The Times of London

People are being fined and jailed for social media posts labelled as "hate speech" by UK government.

British Police Arrest At Least 3,395 People for 'Offensive' Online Comments in One Year

Free Speech is Dead in Britain | The American Spectator | Politics Is Too Important To Be Taken Seriously.

Can a Tweet Put You in Prison? It Certainly Will in the UK

 

[JackRT]

Many Americans are fine with spending more in order to go see the doctor for wherever the reason whenwver they want to and not have to wait for surgery or whatever.

What of the freedom of those USAnians who do not have any money at all for life saving surgery. That is an immense curtailment of their freedom and their right to vote in the next election.

 

[98cwitr]

What of the freedom of those USAnians who do not have any money at all for life saving surgery. That is an immense curtailment of their freedom and their right to vote in the next election.

I have yet to see a single case where someone was denied surgery to save their life in the US. The Hippocratic Oath still stands.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

"America is the best, most free, and most prosperous country on Earth!" jingoistic claims always make me think of the opening scene of the show Newsroom. It was on HBO when I was a kid but since it was filmed during the rise of the Tea Party era it's actually more interesting watching in the present.

The central character is Will McAvoy, described as: "the anchor and managing editor of "News Night," a moderate Republican-one of the few he can find--whose success is largely the result of never offending anyone. He's in a lot of pain and that manifests itself in a gruff exterior when he's off camera." In the very first scene of the series he's on a panel discussion with other newscasters that is moderated by a professor and held at a major university. A college student, Jennifer Johnson, asks the question below. I'm pasting the lines but editing out the words that aren't permitted here.

“Jenny Johnson: Can you say why America is the greatest country in the world?

Sharon: Diversity and opportunity.

Moderator: Lewis?

Lewis: Freedom and freedom... so let's keep it that way.

Moderator: Will?

Will McAvoy: The New York Jets.

Moderator: No, I'm going to hold you to an answer on that. What makes America the greatest country in the world?

Will McAvoy: Well, Lewis and Sharon said it. Diversity and opportunity and freedom and freedom.

Moderator: I'm not letting you go back to the airport without answering the question.

Will McAvoy: Well, our Constitution is a masterpiece. James Madison was a genius. The Declaration of Independence is, for me, the single greatest piece of American writing...

[Professor keeps staring]

Will McAvoy: You don't look satisfied.

Moderator: One's a set of laws and the other's a declaration of war. I want a human moment from you... what about the people? Why is America...

Will McAvoy: It's not the greatest country in the world, professor. That's my answer.

Moderator: You're saying...

Will McAvoy: Yes.

Moderator: Let's talk about...

Will McAvoy: Fine.

[Turns to Sharon]

Will McAvoy: Sharon, the NEA is a loser. Yeah, it accounts for a penny out of our paycheck, but he

[gestures to Lewis]

Will McAvoy: gets to hit you with it anytime he wants. It doesn't cost money, it costs votes. It costs airtime and column inches. You know why people don't like liberals? Cause they lose. If liberals are so smart, how come they lose?

Sharon: Hey!

Will McAvoy: [Turns to Louis] And with a straight face, you're gonna tell students that America is so star-spangled awesome that we're the only ones in the world who have freedom? Canada has freedom. Japan has freedom. The UK. France. Italy. Germany. Spain. Australia... Belgium! has freedom... 207 sovereign states in the world, like 180 of 'em have freedom.

Moderator: Alright...

Will McAvoy: [Looks at Jenny] And, yeah, you... sorority girl. Just in case you accidentally wander into a voting booth one day, there are some things you should know. One of them is: There is absolutely no evidence to support the statement that we're the greatest country in the world. We're 7th in literacy, 27th in math, 22nd in science, 49th in life expectancy, 178th in infant mortality, 3rd in median household income, number 4 in labor force and number 4 in exports. We lead the world in only three categories: number of incarcerated citizens per capita, number of adults who believe angels are real and defense spending - where we spend more than the next 26 countries combined, 25 of whom are allies. Now, none of this is the fault of a 20-year-old college student, but you, nonetheless, are without a doubt a member of the worst period generation period ever period, so when you ask what makes us the greatest country in the world, I don't know what the f you're talking about!... Yosemite?

[Stunned silence]

Will McAvoy: ... It sure used to be. We stood up for what was right. We fought for moral reasons. We passed laws, struck down laws - for moral reasons. We waged wars on poverty, not on poor people. We sacrificed, we cared about our neighbors, we put our money where our mouths were and we never beat our chest. We built great, big things, made ungodly technological advanced, explored the universe, cured diseases and we cultivated the world's greatest artists AND the world's greatest economy. We reached for the stars, acted like men. We aspired to intelligence, we didn't belittle it. It didn't make us feel inferior. We didn't identify ourselves by who we voted for in the last election and we didn't scare so easy. We were able to be all these things and do all these things because we were informed... by great men, men who were revered. First step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one. America is not the greatest country in the world anymore.”
― Aaron Sorkin, The Newsroom Script Episode 1

 

[Ada Lovelace]

I have yet to see a single case where someone was denied surgery to save their life in the US. The Hippocratic Oath still stands.

What is your profession? I'm asking because medical professionals I know most certainly cannot make your claim.

 

[JackRT]

I have yet to see a single case where someone was denied surgery to save their life in the US. The Hippocratic Oath still stands.

If I recall correctly if a sick or injured person goes to an ER they will stabilize his/her condition and release them. That might mean life saving surgery but not long term treatment for an ongoing condition. Some poor people go the ER over and over as the "stabilization" wears off. Surely the USA can do better than that.

 

[Pedra]

"Woe to the rich, for they have been comforted" might fit.

A lot of Americans agree with you,
a lot of Chinese believers, African believers, Russian believers, and so on , do not.

It's not a competition.
The USA has been blessed to spread the gospel, to be a haven for Christians & to become the superpower to protect God's land of Israel.

 

[renniks]

What of the freedom of those USAnians who do not have any money at all for life saving surgery. That is an immense curtailment of their freedom and their right to vote in the next election.

I mentioned before, my wife had to go for some extremely expensive tests, and we had no money for any of it. Basically they go ahead and do it, and figure out how you're going to pay later. We filled out some forms and the vast majority of it was paid by donors. Another child in the family had a birth defect that had to be corrected, and Shriners hospital did it all for free, with very impressive one to one care.

 

[pitabread]

Germany definitely does not have freedom of speech.

Curious, why do you think that?

Per the 2018 Human Freedom Index, Germany scored a 9.4/10 when it comes to freedom of expression and information.

Conversely the United States scored a 9.2/10.

 

[usexpat97]

Curious, why do you think that?

Per the 2018 Human Freedom Index, Germany scored a 9.4/10 when it comes to freedom of expression and information.

Conversely the United States scored a 9.2/10.

Try questioning the Holocaust sometime.

Try saying Hitler and the Nazi party were really not that bad.

 

[pitabread]

Try questioning the Holocaust sometime.

Try saying Hitler and the Nazi party were really not that bad.

I'm aware of Germany's laws re: the Holocaust and Nazism. Given that country's history, it's not overly surprising though.

Do you believe that automatically precludes them from having freedom of speech (esp. considering almost every country has some sort of restrictions thereof)?

 

[rjs330]

I'm curious, exactly what ideas has the right wanted to try? I keep hearing how they have these plans but it seems to come down to "repeal Obamacare" -- with no plan on what they might do to replace it.

Here's some.
Conservative Views on Health Care Reform