Fantasy & Magic in Fiction

[theoneandonlypencil]

Hello everyone!

First off, I'm sorry if this is in the wrong section--it's the one I'm most familiar with, and I'm not sure where else to put it since all of the different forum categories on here get really confusing ^ ^; I'd just like to get non-denomination exclusive opinions on my assessment, here.

Okay so, these are reasons why I have come to the conclusion that I do not think watching, writing, reading, or playing games of the fantasy/magic genre is sinful.


Before I start, a disclaimer; I absolutely AGREE that witchcraft, in its biblical sense, is a HUGE no-no and that we're to take the occult very seriously. I did not come here to challenge that thought or argue with scripture, for certain. I also think that if you are personally uncomfortable with viewing any fantasy/magic related media, God most certainly has his reasons(whether it be him protecting you from a spiritual weak spot or something else)and YOU SHOULD LISTEN.

This is, instead, for people like me who enjoy the genre but do not want to give off the false impression of being a part of something scripture is so serious about--and to most importantly, find a way to glorify God using the imagination he's given us.


Alright, so here are my points;
​

1. The meaning of 'Witchcraft'
   As I understand it, biblical witchcraft seems to differ greatly from what a lot of the general-magic oriented fiction has to offer these days. Not only does it ALWAYS involve consulting demons/spirits, but it is almost always used in a selfish, rebellious manner and goes completely against the will of God. They specialized in bewitching people, making potions, palm reading, communicating with the dead...etc. Do not make the mistake that if one uses it for 'good' that it is so. 'White magic' does not exist; as long as whatever power being used is not from God, it is sinful and bad.
   
   Now, it's also useful to look at most modern depictions of magic. Most magic in media, today, is a 'gift' in terms of the fictional world's lore. It is part of the natural setting created by THE creator of the world. You don't consort with spirits, and you certainly don't mumble incantations to talk to the dead. Magic is simply making something that, to us, would normally be physically impossible, possible. Before anyone shouts 'HERESY! Satan is tricking you!' let me state something else--if performing impossible feats is considered sinful in all cases, is God's own people such as Moses and the Apostles committing sins when they perform miracles? Of course not! And the answer why is simple; The ability to perform miracles is a gift from God, not some counterfeit 'witchcraft' given to them by demons in order to satisfy the lust of the flesh. The term 'miracle' is described as the following(from dictionary.com);
   "noun
   an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.
   
   such an effect or event manifesting or considered as a work of God.
   
   a wonder; marvel.
   
   a wonderful or surpassing example of some quality:a miracle of modern acoustics."
   
   I think that a great majority of what we, as Christians, enjoy in fiction is the resemblance of the great miracles that we read about in the bible. If you think about it, witchcraft isn't even the original thing--it's just a knockoff of what God has been doing for ages. (after all, satan is the king of copycats, isn't he? ;3 ) Another worthy note is that the act of shouting a random word during casting of a 'spell'(english or otherwise) is not it in and of itself sinful unless you're calling upon some entity. I bring this up because it seems quite common in some cartoons and games that characters shout something symbolizing what they're going to do before they do it--even 'spells' that use some kind of command first, I cannot say is witchcraft on the sole note that in the same series, I see character using their magic without uttering a single phrase. Perhaps it's to look cool, no? Either way, 'spells' in this sense are also not biblical, as spells in the bible were meant to enchant people and manipulate them--not cast fireballs or shoot lightning. Finally, I'd imagine that if a creator(in a fictional setting) willingly gave his creations full range over magic, there wouldn't be 'good' or 'bad' magic--but whether you use it for 'good' or 'bad' reasons. Much like we can use guns for good or bad things. What's important, is that the source of the power comes from natural means in terms of the world setting, or the higher power--never demons or spirits.
   
   SIDE NOTE: It's also useful to note that the terms 'witchcraft' and 'sorcerer' or 'spell' were not the original words used in scripture. So it is not the name, but the idea/meaning that is carried by them. Perhaps we should just invent new words for these things xD
2. World setting & context
   Now then, since I've explained my part on why I think most mainstream 'magic' isn't witchcraft magic at all, let me also talk about why world settings and context matters.
   
   For one, stories always go one of two ways; there's a divine power, or there's not. Where there is a divine power, I'd first examine whether or not the world's 'creator' follows basic morals. I say 'basic' because I do not(sadly)expect all shows to portray perfectly biblical morals; some 'divine beings' in fiction do not care if it's creations pro-create outside of marriage or swear. However, if it follows most of the basics such as no murder, no 'dark' practices(especially ones that rebel against the creator), no adultery, justice & peace, kindness & good-will, etc...you get the point. But if it follows these principles, then I'd say the story itself is OK. Subsequently, if the creator in the fictional universe decides to give power to its creations; is it not a parallel to the likes of how God gave the ability to perform miracles to his chosen children? Moreover, a lot of fiction also includes 'dark' magic or practices--some sort of boundary. I believe THAT would be the proper equivalent of witchcraft.
   
   Now, if for some reason the fictional creator promotes violence, occult practice, demon-worshipping, etc etc...then no, it is not suitable for ANY Christian.
   
   When it comes to stories without direct mention of a higher power, I think the important thing is to not assume that it's all the work of demons, either. If it was, how could there be ANY good in it? If a character is born with/acquires a special power that is part of the story's setting in some way, we cannot know whether or not it's from the equivalent of 'God's goodness' or 'Satan's wickedness'. So instead, I urge you to look at how they use this power and what it is. If they are banishing evil with a kind of pure magic or using their newfound(possibly)ability to do good, we can assume that it would be a gift from their 'creator'. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit, after all. To add to this, also look at their intention; were they SEEKING something that would give them power, or did the power find them? Is the power gained from wicked spirits, or is the magic simply a natural element of the world's setting? All of these are important factors to consider. (For example, I write stories with vampires, werewolves and other kinds of monsters in them. but, I write them as a race--not a demon. They are morally neutral, like a lot of humans.)
3. "But if we can watch tv with magic and fantasy, can't we say it's not a sin to watch pornography?"
   
   In case anyone is going to ask this, let me answer right now; no, it's not okay to watch pornography. We've already gone over why magic in media isn't really the same as what it is in the bible, but here's the thing about pornography and pretty much all of the other sins listed in the bible; they're all bad. There is no 'miracle vs black magic' comparison to be made. There isn't any kind of 'fornication, adultery, lying, murder, etc' that is used for 'good' by God or anyone else, unlike miracles being the natural 'good' opposite to witchcraft. Porn is porn no matter if the world is fictional or not, period. (Plus we already went over how if you're interested in enjoying ANY kind of fantasy media, it should mirror Christianly traits and such)
   
4. The problem with writing/reading 'Christian' stories
   Okay, so this is my last main point. One issue I have with writing 'Christian' specific media, is this; I feel like I'm playing God, and that feels VERY wrong. Don't misunderstand me, I do think there's plenty of good Christian works out there--but all of them are based in reality, and are written in a way that you could probably imagine it as someone's 'normal' life story. If I were to add any miracle or overly-fictitious element to a story where OUR God reigned over, I'd feel disgustingly awful because I'm just a human! I could never even TRY to comprehend what he might do or the things he might allow, nor do I want to try! I write heavy fiction without Christianity(in the real sense) in it because I prefer to add elements or a fake religious system that MIRRORS Christianity. Then, it doesn't feel like I'm thinking or acting for God--in fact, it feels more like I'm writing my own mini-love letter back to him. I take great inspiration from the way he designed us and the things around us, and I like to show that inspiration off in the worlds and religions I create in them. If I ever use 'real world' locations or settings(which I don't prefer to do), I usually treat it as a 'copy'--not the real thing. At its core, all of my writings, sad or happy, adventure or horror, I do in the glory and for the glory of God. Same with the media I take in--I don't attribute the wonderful Christian-like undertones of any fictional or non-fictional media to anything but God. Because how can good exist without him? It can't. He gifted us all with imaginations, and I think the expression of miracles and wonders in writing has been perverted by satan, more than anything.
   
5. BONUS POINT: Harry Potter
   Alright, I did want to add this in here, though, because....you know, it's important I think. Despite everything I've said up to this point, I'm really on the fence about Harry Potter in particular. It's not the same thing as creator-given magic in a totally fictional world with its own definition of spells and abilities, but instead, it's VERY much based in our world and...a lot of it does seem to, instead of stripping the words of their original meaning to fit a more 'Godly' sense, embrace the original meanings of Witchcraft. I'm not going to rule them out just on the basis that they call themselves witches and warlocks(Little witch academia, after all, does the same--and I think it's a harmless show)however, the problem is that it's not only rooted strongly in the real world but it doesn't follow the same fictitious 'magic' that we know. It definitely has a more 'occult' vibe, and even the students at hogwarts attend a dark arts class(as if that were...okay?). This is a deadly combo because I do believe that Christians can be lead into dark things if they get overly interested the way it's presented it Harry Potter. It also concerns me that rumors have spread about some of the incantations or practices being real. Now, can I say for sure it's a sin to read or watch harry potter? No, I don't think anyone can, and I'm not even sure it's 100% bad. I don't think you're going to hell either for watching/reading it either, but I personally think if you decide to five into the potterverse, you should fully be aware of WHAT you're watching, and WHY you're watching it. Time would probably be better spend enjoying something like Lord of the Rings, or Narnia--both series involve magic, but in a sense where it's a natural factor of the fictional worlds provided, and not based so heavily on stereotypical witchcraft.

Anyways, I hope this was of interest to someone! I'd love to hear feedback on whether y'all think my point is valid. I'm trying my hardest to honor God in everything I do c':

 

[Aussie Pete]

Hello everyone!

First off, I'm sorry if this is in the wrong section--it's the one I'm most familiar with, and I'm not sure where else to put it since all of the different forum categories on here get really confusing ^ ^; I'd just like to get non-denomination exclusive opinions on my assessment, here.

Okay so, these are reasons why I have come to the conclusion that I do not think watching, writing, reading, or playing games of the fantasy/magic genre is sinful.


Before I start, a disclaimer; I absolutely AGREE that witchcraft, in its biblical sense, is a HUGE no-no and that we're to take the occult very seriously. I did not come here to challenge that thought or argue with scripture, for certain. I also think that if you are personally uncomfortable with viewing any fantasy/magic related media, God most certainly has his reasons(whether it be him protecting you from a spiritual weak spot or something else)and YOU SHOULD LISTEN.

This is, instead, for people like me who enjoy the genre but do not want to give off the false impression of being a part of something scripture is so serious about--and to most importantly, find a way to glorify God using the imagination he's given us.


Alright, so here are my points;
​

1. The meaning of 'Witchcraft'
   As I understand it, biblical witchcraft seems to differ greatly from what a lot of the general-magic oriented fiction has to offer these days. Not only does it ALWAYS involve consulting demons/spirits, but it is almost always used in a selfish, rebellious manner and goes completely against the will of God. They specialized in bewitching people, making potions, palm reading, communicating with the dead...etc. Do not make the mistake that if one uses it for 'good' that it is so. 'White magic' does not exist; as long as whatever power being used is not from God, it is sinful and bad.
   
   Now, it's also useful to look at most modern depictions of magic. Most magic in media, today, is a 'gift' in terms of the fictional world's lore. It is part of the natural setting created by THE creator of the world. You don't consort with spirits, and you certainly don't mumble incantations to talk to the dead. Magic is simply making something that, to us, would normally be physically impossible, possible. Before anyone shouts 'HERESY! Satan is tricking you!' let me state something else--if performing impossible feats is considered sinful in all cases, is God's own people such as Moses and the Apostles committing sins when they perform miracles? Of course not! And the answer why is simple; The ability to perform miracles is a gift from God, not some counterfeit 'witchcraft' given to them by demons in order to satisfy the lust of the flesh. The term 'miracle' is described as the following(from dictionary.com);
   "noun
   an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.
   
   such an effect or event manifesting or considered as a work of God.
   
   a wonder; marvel.
   
   a wonderful or surpassing example of some quality:a miracle of modern acoustics."
   
   I think that a great majority of what we, as Christians, enjoy in fiction is the resemblance of the great miracles that we read about in the bible. If you think about it, witchcraft isn't even the original thing--it's just a knockoff of what God has been doing for ages. (after all, satan is the king of copycats, isn't he? ;3 ) Another worthy note is that the act of shouting a random word during casting of a 'spell'(english or otherwise) is not it in and of itself sinful unless you're calling upon some entity. I bring this up because it seems quite common in some cartoons and games that characters shout something symbolizing what they're going to do before they do it--even 'spells' that use some kind of command first, I cannot say is witchcraft on the sole note that in the same series, I see character using their magic without uttering a single phrase. Perhaps it's to look cool, no? Either way, 'spells' in this sense are also not biblical, as spells in the bible were meant to enchant people and manipulate them--not cast fireballs or shoot lightning. Finally, I'd imagine that if a creator(in a fictional setting) willingly gave his creations full range over magic, there wouldn't be 'good' or 'bad' magic--but whether you use it for 'good' or 'bad' reasons. Much like we can use guns for good or bad things. What's important, is that the source of the power comes from natural means in terms of the world setting, or the higher power--never demons or spirits.
   
   SIDE NOTE: It's also useful to note that the terms 'witchcraft' and 'sorcerer' or 'spell' were not the original words used in scripture. So it is not the name, but the idea/meaning that is carried by them. Perhaps we should just invent new words for these things xD
2. World setting & context
   Now then, since I've explained my part on why I think most mainstream 'magic' isn't witchcraft magic at all, let me also talk about why world settings and context matters.
   
   For one, stories always go one of two ways; there's a divine power, or there's not. Where there is a divine power, I'd first examine whether or not the world's 'creator' follows basic morals. I say 'basic' because I do not(sadly)expect all shows to portray perfectly biblical morals; some 'divine beings' in fiction do not care if it's creations pro-create outside of marriage or swear. However, if it follows most of the basics such as no murder, no 'dark' practices(especially ones that rebel against the creator), no adultery, justice & peace, kindness & good-will, etc...you get the point. But if it follows these principles, then I'd say the story itself is OK. Subsequently, if the creator in the fictional universe decides to give power to its creations; is it not a parallel to the likes of how God gave the ability to perform miracles to his chosen children? Moreover, a lot of fiction also includes 'dark' magic or practices--some sort of boundary. I believe THAT would be the proper equivalent of witchcraft.
   
   Now, if for some reason the fictional creator promotes violence, occult practice, demon-worshipping, etc etc...then no, it is not suitable for ANY Christian.
   
   When it comes to stories without direct mention of a higher power, I think the important thing is to not assume that it's all the work of demons, either. If it was, how could there be ANY good in it? If a character is born with/acquires a special power that is part of the story's setting in some way, we cannot know whether or not it's from the equivalent of 'God's goodness' or 'Satan's wickedness'. So instead, I urge you to look at how they use this power and what it is. If they are banishing evil with a kind of pure magic or using their newfound(possibly)ability to do good, we can assume that it would be a gift from their 'creator'. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit, after all. To add to this, also look at their intention; were they SEEKING something that would give them power, or did the power find them? Is the power gained from wicked spirits, or is the magic simply a natural element of the world's setting? All of these are important factors to consider. (For example, I write stories with vampires, werewolves and other kinds of monsters in them. but, I write them as a race--not a demon. They are morally neutral, like a lot of humans.)
3. "But if we can watch tv with magic and fantasy, can't we say it's not a sin to watch pornography?"
   
   In case anyone is going to ask this, let me answer right now; no, it's not okay to watch pornography. We've already gone over why magic in media isn't really the same as what it is in the bible, but here's the thing about pornography and pretty much all of the other sins listed in the bible; they're all bad. There is no 'miracle vs black magic' comparison to be made. There isn't any kind of 'fornication, adultery, lying, murder, etc' that is used for 'good' by God or anyone else, unlike miracles being the natural 'good' opposite to witchcraft. Porn is porn no matter if the world is fictional or not, period. (Plus we already went over how if you're interested in enjoying ANY kind of fantasy media, it should mirror Christianly traits and such)
   
4. The problem with writing/reading 'Christian' stories
   Okay, so this is my last main point. One issue I have with writing 'Christian' specific media, is this; I feel like I'm playing God, and that feels VERY wrong. Don't misunderstand me, I do think there's plenty of good Christian works out there--but all of them are based in reality, and are written in a way that you could probably imagine it as someone's 'normal' life story. If I were to add any miracle or overly-fictitious element to a story where OUR God reigned over, I'd feel disgustingly awful because I'm just a human! I could never even TRY to comprehend what he might do or the things he might allow, nor do I want to try! I write heavy fiction without Christianity(in the real sense) in it because I prefer to add elements or a fake religious system that MIRRORS Christianity. Then, it doesn't feel like I'm thinking or acting for God--in fact, it feels more like I'm writing my own mini-love letter back to him. I take great inspiration from the way he designed us and the things around us, and I like to show that inspiration off in the worlds and religions I create in them. If I ever use 'real world' locations or settings(which I don't prefer to do), I usually treat it as a 'copy'--not the real thing. At its core, all of my writings, sad or happy, adventure or horror, I do in the glory and for the glory of God. Same with the media I take in--I don't attribute the wonderful Christian-like undertones of any fictional or non-fictional media to anything but God. Because how can good exist without him? It can't. He gifted us all with imaginations, and I think the expression of miracles and wonders in writing has been perverted by satan, more than anything.
   
5. BONUS POINT: Harry Potter
   Alright, I did want to add this in here, though, because....you know, it's important I think. Despite everything I've said up to this point, I'm really on the fence about Harry Potter in particular. It's not the same thing as creator-given magic in a totally fictional world with its own definition of spells and abilities, but instead, it's VERY much based in our world and...a lot of it does seem to, instead of stripping the words of their original meaning to fit a more 'Godly' sense, embrace the original meanings of Witchcraft. I'm not going to rule them out just on the basis that they call themselves witches and warlocks(Little witch academia, after all, does the same--and I think it's a harmless show)however, the problem is that it's not only rooted strongly in the real world but it doesn't follow the same fictitious 'magic' that we know. It definitely has a more 'occult' vibe, and even the students at hogwarts attend a dark arts class(as if that were...okay?). This is a deadly combo because I do believe that Christians can be lead into dark things if they get overly interested the way it's presented it Harry Potter. It also concerns me that rumors have spread about some of the incantations or practices being real. Now, can I say for sure it's a sin to read or watch harry potter? No, I don't think anyone can, and I'm not even sure it's 100% bad. I don't think you're going to hell either for watching/reading it either, but I personally think if you decide to five into the potterverse, you should fully be aware of WHAT you're watching, and WHY you're watching it. Time would probably be better spend enjoying something like Lord of the Rings, or Narnia--both series involve magic, but in a sense where it's a natural factor of the fictional worlds provided, and not based so heavily on stereotypical witchcraft.

Anyways, I hope this was of interest to someone! I'd love to hear feedback on wheIther y'all think my point is valid. I'm trying my hardest to honor God in everything I do c':

My family on my mother's side were spiritists. Before I was born, my father was fighting in Korea, so they had a seance and requested a guardian angel for me. I suffered terrible, life threatening illnesses, I was full of fear and nightmares that terrified me. There was a "ghost" (actually a demon) in the home. I was both fascinated and fearful of the occult. I had some occult power, but I never got right into it - thank God.

I'm wary of even a hint of the occult. I know some magicians are truly witches - not all, some are just good at illusions. Hypnosis seems like fun, but it is demonic. If you are not careful, some fantasy entertainment can lead to deeper involvement. I used to read a lot of heavy duty occult stuff. I had to give that away after I got saved. Likewise horror movies. I read Lord of the Rings. I would not do that again, neither did I see the movie. We need to be led by the Spirit. All things are lawful, not all things are edifying.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

My family on my mother's side were spiritists. Before I was born, my father was fighting in Korea, so they had a seance and requested a guardian angel for me. I suffered terrible, life threatening illnesses, I was full of fear and nightmares that terrified me. There was a "ghost" (actually a demon) in the home. I was both fascinated and fearful of the occult. I had some occult power, but I never got right into it - thank God.

I'm wary of even a hint of the occult. I know some magicians are truly witches - not all, some are just good at illusions. Hypnosis seems like fun, but it is demonic. If you are not careful, some fantasy entertainment can lead to deeper involvement. I used to read a lot of heavy duty occult stuff. I had to give that away after I got saved. Likewise horror movies. I read Lord of the Rings. I would not do that again, neither did I see the movie. We need to be led by the Spirit. All things are lawful, not all things are edifying.

I agree and understand. That's why I said in the beginning that if you feel any reservations towards anything resembling magic, it should be avoided. My main point was to illustrate that instead of comparing fictitious magic to witchcraft, we should instead give thanks to God for having a good imagination and looking to glorify Him by appreciating the TRUE root of visual 'wonders'--his miracles.

If you are acutely aware of what you're believing in and why you believe in it, I think that is where true Christian Liberty shines ^ ^

 

[timothyu]

Consider that the Potter side of life is alien to ours and that angels, both regular and fallen (which are alien to us) would experience the same good /evil situation and conflict as in Potterland.

 

[LoricaLady]

Hello everyone!

First off, I'm sorry if this is in the wrong section--it's the one I'm most familiar with, and I'm not sure where else to put it since all of the different forum categories on here get really confusing ^ ^; I'd just like to get non-denomination exclusive opinions on my assessment, here.

Okay so, these are reasons why I have come to the conclusion that I do not think watching, writing, reading, or playing games of the fantasy/magic genre is sinful.


Before I start, a disclaimer; I absolutely AGREE that witchcraft, in its biblical sense, is a HUGE no-no and that we're to take the occult very seriously. I did not come here to challenge that thought or argue with scripture, for certain. I also think that if you are personally uncomfortable with viewing any fantasy/magic related media, God most certainly has his reasons(whether it be him protecting you from a spiritual weak spot or something else)and YOU SHOULD LISTEN.

This is, instead, for people like me who enjoy the genre but do not want to give off the false impression of being a part of something scripture is so serious about--and to most importantly, find a way to glorify God using the imagination he's given us.


Alright, so here are my points;
​

1. The meaning of 'Witchcraft'
   As I understand it, biblical witchcraft seems to differ greatly from what a lot of the general-magic oriented fiction has to offer these days. Not only does it ALWAYS involve consulting demons/spirits, but it is almost always used in a selfish, rebellious manner and goes completely against the will of God. They specialized in bewitching people, making potions, palm reading, communicating with the dead...etc. Do not make the mistake that if one uses it for 'good' that it is so. 'White magic' does not exist; as long as whatever power being used is not from God, it is sinful and bad.
   
   Now, it's also useful to look at most modern depictions of magic. Most magic in media, today, is a 'gift' in terms of the fictional world's lore. It is part of the natural setting created by THE creator of the world. You don't consort with spirits, and you certainly don't mumble incantations to talk to the dead. Magic is simply making something that, to us, would normally be physically impossible, possible. Before anyone shouts 'HERESY! Satan is tricking you!' let me state something else--if performing impossible feats is considered sinful in all cases, is God's own people such as Moses and the Apostles committing sins when they perform miracles? Of course not! And the answer why is simple; The ability to perform miracles is a gift from God, not some counterfeit 'witchcraft' given to them by demons in order to satisfy the lust of the flesh. The term 'miracle' is described as the following(from dictionary.com);
   "noun
   an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.
   
   such an effect or event manifesting or considered as a work of God.
   
   a wonder; marvel.
   
   a wonderful or surpassing example of some quality:a miracle of modern acoustics."
   
   I think that a great majority of what we, as Christians, enjoy in fiction is the resemblance of the great miracles that we read about in the bible. If you think about it, witchcraft isn't even the original thing--it's just a knockoff of what God has been doing for ages. (after all, satan is the king of copycats, isn't he? ;3 ) Another worthy note is that the act of shouting a random word during casting of a 'spell'(english or otherwise) is not it in and of itself sinful unless you're calling upon some entity. I bring this up because it seems quite common in some cartoons and games that characters shout something symbolizing what they're going to do before they do it--even 'spells' that use some kind of command first, I cannot say is witchcraft on the sole note that in the same series, I see character using their magic without uttering a single phrase. Perhaps it's to look cool, no? Either way, 'spells' in this sense are also not biblical, as spells in the bible were meant to enchant people and manipulate them--not cast fireballs or shoot lightning. Finally, I'd imagine that if a creator(in a fictional setting) willingly gave his creations full range over magic, there wouldn't be 'good' or 'bad' magic--but whether you use it for 'good' or 'bad' reasons. Much like we can use guns for good or bad things. What's important, is that the source of the power comes from natural means in terms of the world setting, or the higher power--never demons or spirits.
   
   SIDE NOTE: It's also useful to note that the terms 'witchcraft' and 'sorcerer' or 'spell' were not the original words used in scripture. So it is not the name, but the idea/meaning that is carried by them. Perhaps we should just invent new words for these things xD
2. World setting & context
   Now then, since I've explained my part on why I think most mainstream 'magic' isn't witchcraft magic at all, let me also talk about why world settings and context matters.
   
   For one, stories always go one of two ways; there's a divine power, or there's not. Where there is a divine power, I'd first examine whether or not the world's 'creator' follows basic morals. I say 'basic' because I do not(sadly)expect all shows to portray perfectly biblical morals; some 'divine beings' in fiction do not care if it's creations pro-create outside of marriage or swear. However, if it follows most of the basics such as no murder, no 'dark' practices(especially ones that rebel against the creator), no adultery, justice & peace, kindness & good-will, etc...you get the point. But if it follows these principles, then I'd say the story itself is OK. Subsequently, if the creator in the fictional universe decides to give power to its creations; is it not a parallel to the likes of how God gave the ability to perform miracles to his chosen children? Moreover, a lot of fiction also includes 'dark' magic or practices--some sort of boundary. I believe THAT would be the proper equivalent of witchcraft.
   
   Now, if for some reason the fictional creator promotes violence, occult practice, demon-worshipping, etc etc...then no, it is not suitable for ANY Christian.
   
   When it comes to stories without direct mention of a higher power, I think the important thing is to not assume that it's all the work of demons, either. If it was, how could there be ANY good in it? If a character is born with/acquires a special power that is part of the story's setting in some way, we cannot know whether or not it's from the equivalent of 'God's goodness' or 'Satan's wickedness'. So instead, I urge you to look at how they use this power and what it is. If they are banishing evil with a kind of pure magic or using their newfound(possibly)ability to do good, we can assume that it would be a gift from their 'creator'. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit, after all. To add to this, also look at their intention; were they SEEKING something that would give them power, or did the power find them? Is the power gained from wicked spirits, or is the magic simply a natural element of the world's setting? All of these are important factors to consider. (For example, I write stories with vampires, werewolves and other kinds of monsters in them. but, I write them as a race--not a demon. They are morally neutral, like a lot of humans.)
3. "But if we can watch tv with magic and fantasy, can't we say it's not a sin to watch pornography?"
   
   In case anyone is going to ask this, let me answer right now; no, it's not okay to watch pornography. We've already gone over why magic in media isn't really the same as what it is in the bible, but here's the thing about pornography and pretty much all of the other sins listed in the bible; they're all bad. There is no 'miracle vs black magic' comparison to be made. There isn't any kind of 'fornication, adultery, lying, murder, etc' that is used for 'good' by God or anyone else, unlike miracles being the natural 'good' opposite to witchcraft. Porn is porn no matter if the world is fictional or not, period. (Plus we already went over how if you're interested in enjoying ANY kind of fantasy media, it should mirror Christianly traits and such)
   
4. The problem with writing/reading 'Christian' stories
   Okay, so this is my last main point. One issue I have with writing 'Christian' specific media, is this; I feel like I'm playing God, and that feels VERY wrong. Don't misunderstand me, I do think there's plenty of good Christian works out there--but all of them are based in reality, and are written in a way that you could probably imagine it as someone's 'normal' life story. If I were to add any miracle or overly-fictitious element to a story where OUR God reigned over, I'd feel disgustingly awful because I'm just a human! I could never even TRY to comprehend what he might do or the things he might allow, nor do I want to try! I write heavy fiction without Christianity(in the real sense) in it because I prefer to add elements or a fake religious system that MIRRORS Christianity. Then, it doesn't feel like I'm thinking or acting for God--in fact, it feels more like I'm writing my own mini-love letter back to him. I take great inspiration from the way he designed us and the things around us, and I like to show that inspiration off in the worlds and religions I create in them. If I ever use 'real world' locations or settings(which I don't prefer to do), I usually treat it as a 'copy'--not the real thing. At its core, all of my writings, sad or happy, adventure or horror, I do in the glory and for the glory of God. Same with the media I take in--I don't attribute the wonderful Christian-like undertones of any fictional or non-fictional media to anything but God. Because how can good exist without him? It can't. He gifted us all with imaginations, and I think the expression of miracles and wonders in writing has been perverted by satan, more than anything.
   
5. BONUS POINT: Harry Potter
   Alright, I did want to add this in here, though, because....you know, it's important I think. Despite everything I've said up to this point, I'm really on the fence about Harry Potter in particular. It's not the same thing as creator-given magic in a totally fictional world with its own definition of spells and abilities, but instead, it's VERY much based in our world and...a lot of it does seem to, instead of stripping the words of their original meaning to fit a more 'Godly' sense, embrace the original meanings of Witchcraft. I'm not going to rule them out just on the basis that they call themselves witches and warlocks(Little witch academia, after all, does the same--and I think it's a harmless show)however, the problem is that it's not only rooted strongly in the real world but it doesn't follow the same fictitious 'magic' that we know. It definitely has a more 'occult' vibe, and even the students at hogwarts attend a dark arts class(as if that were...okay?). This is a deadly combo because I do believe that Christians can be lead into dark things if they get overly interested the way it's presented it Harry Potter. It also concerns me that rumors have spread about some of the incantations or practices being real. Now, can I say for sure it's a sin to read or watch harry potter? No, I don't think anyone can, and I'm not even sure it's 100% bad. I don't think you're going to hell either for watching/reading it either, but I personally think if you decide to five into the potterverse, you should fully be aware of WHAT you're watching, and WHY you're watching it. Time would probably be better spend enjoying something like Lord of the Rings, or Narnia--both series involve magic, but in a sense where it's a natural factor of the fictional worlds provided, and not based so heavily on stereotypical witchcraft.

Anyways, I hope this was of interest to someone! I'd love to hear feedback on whether y'all think my point is valid. I'm trying my hardest to honor God in everything I do c':

Let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.” 1 Corinthians 10:12, KJV

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

Let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.” 1 Corinthians 10:12, KJV

Hm? I don't understand why you quoted this verse specifically, I'm sorry ^ ^;

 

[LoricaLady]

Well, you say that witchcraft is a big no no, yet you seem to feel that maybe it's okay to be entertained by Harry Potter, which is pure witchcraft. It seems you think that it's just entertainment and can't hurt you. Have you heard this saying.. "Garbage in, garbage out"? That can surely apply to your mind and soul.

Just in general, your post, to me, seems to be making excuses for things the Bible calls wrong, based on your opinions.

You say "We've already gone over why magic in media isn't really the same as what it is in the Bible." Uh, who is this "we" that you refer to? Actually you are simply giving your own opinion. It disagrees with quite a few Bible students, like me.

An underlying issue here is why you are so preoccupied with secular entertainment. Well, of course that is the path the world is on. Do you think Messiah really wants you to spend your valuable time watching fantasy, magic, witchcraft? You seem quite intelligent. I feel sure you could use your mind for far more noble purposes. Those other things don't serve Him but draw you away from Him, and as the Bible says, "Be careful when you think you stand" i.e. feel you are secure, "'Lest you fall."

 

[timothyu]

Well, you say that witchcraft is a big no no, yet you seem to feel that maybe it's okay to be entertained by Harry Potter, which is pure witchcraft.

Witchcraft? How about fantasy or alchemy at the least.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

Well, you say that witchcraft is a big no no, yet you seem to feel that maybe it's okay to be entertained by Harry Potter, which is pure witchcraft. It seems you think that it's just entertainment and can't hurt you. Have you heard this saying.. "Garbage in, garbage out"? That can surely apply to your mind and soul.

Just in general, your post, to me, seems to be making excuses for things the Bible calls wrong, based on your opinions.

You say "We've already gone over why magic in media isn't really the same as what it is in the Bible." Uh, who is this "we" that you refer to? Actually you are simply giving your own opinion. It disagrees with quite a few Bible students, like me.

An underlying issue here is why you are so preoccupied with secular entertainment. Well, of course that is the path the world is on. Do you think Messiah really wants you to spend your valuable time watching fantasy, magic, witchcraft? You seem quite intelligent. I feel sure you could use your mind for far more noble purposes. Those other things don't serve Him but draw you away from Him, and as the Bible says, "Be careful when you think you stand" i.e. feel you are secure, "'Lest you fall."

I can't say much other than my opinion is pretty firmly based on scripture, and what we understand magic to be IN the bible. As I said before, if simply doing something that cannot be done by logical means (turning a snake into a staff, water into wine, healing, etc)then wouldn't God be making his own people sin by giving them the ability to perform miracles?

I've read a good amount about biblical witchcraft. For one, it was not called 'witchcraft'--those are the english words. And that deals with semantics; if you call an apple an orange, it doesn't make it an orange. And orange is an orange no matter what you call it. Witchcraft is only witchcraft if you are doing what was described in the bible. Likewise, you aren't performing 'witchcraft' if you're doing a magic trick by arranging a deck of cards to create the illusion of 'knowing' what card someone picked.

Anyways, two things; For one, the word for 'sorcerer' in the bible is actually pharmakeia. Pharmakeia relates to those who use drugs or potions in order to use their 'magic' which is actually borrowed from Spirits and Demons. Second, the REASON why sorcery is bad in the bible(and this is what separates 'magic' from 'miracles')is because by calling upon demons and unclean things for power, we're committing a kind of idolatry. 'Spiritual prosititution', if you will. This page actually explains the topic quite well, and it's backed up by verses; Pharmakeia (Forerunner Commentary)

When I wrote this thread(even if I rambled horribly and my points were all over the place), I did so because I think that on the topic of fictional fantasy, we're condemning people when we ought not to be. God gave us very creative minds, and fantasy is a wonderful genre to express a lot of different things. Is it not weird that someone might write a book where people can still perform miracles, but just because another book labels it something else it is called 'demonic'? As I outlined, unless the fiction is wholly unclean and promotes the biblical definition of witchcraft(communicating with demons and spirits to gain power other than from God), I don't think it's sinful. Fantasy can be a great way to create compelling allegories too, such as The Chronicles of Narnia. I don't see how if it doesn't promote the thing the bible condemns(BIBLICAL witchcraft), and it promotes Christian-compatible values...how is it garbage? Don't forget about what Paul said in regards to worshipping meat to idols. The people didn't believe in those idols; therefore, they were not unclean. We do not write stories or attribute magic in media to be the work of demons(neither in the fictional world or real world)and it certainly seems most cases check out as fine by biblical standards. So I do not see the reasoning for condemning ALL Christians for enjoying fantasy media. As I stated, I think there's nothing wrong with glorifying God by taking inspiration from his creations and methods.

Of course, when it comes to Harry Potter I actually said I didn't really promote reading it. I can't condemn anyone who does since for one, the bible doesn't say anything about Harry Potter--and two, because, as I said, Harry Potter not only being set in the real world REALLY seems to draw dangerously close to biblical witchcraft. In other cases, it doesn't...but the overall blurring of 'good vs divine/wicked vs divine' gets blurred too much for me personally to say I'm OK with it.

Lastly, as I said, some people are definitely not meant for fantasy. I thank God for putting such talented artists and writers in the world when I enjoy good fantasy inspired media, and I always like to look for biblical parallels. Just wanted to put all of this out there to clear the air on an issue that most people seem to tackle from the wrong angles ^ ^

SIDE NOTE: I'm also totally down for changing the terms 'witchcraft' and 'sorcery' in fantasy to avoid negative connections to the real occult. Even if that's jumping through the semantic hoops.

 

[LoricaLady]

I can't say much other than my opinion is pretty firmly based on scripture, and what we understand magic to be IN the bible. As I said before, if simply doing something that cannot be done by logical means (turning a snake into a staff, water into wine, healing, etc)then wouldn't God be making his own people sin by giving them the ability to perform miracles?

I've read a good amount about biblical witchcraft. For one, it was not called 'witchcraft'--those are the english words. And that deals with semantics; if you call an apple an orange, it doesn't make it an orange. And orange is an orange no matter what you call it. Witchcraft is only witchcraft if you are doing what was described in the bible. Likewise, you aren't performing 'witchcraft' if you're doing a magic trick by arranging a deck of cards to create the illusion of 'knowing' what card someone picked.

Anyways, two things; For one, the word for 'sorcerer' in the bible is actually pharmakeia. Pharmakeia relates to those who use drugs or potions in order to use their 'magic' which is actually borrowed from Spirits and Demons. Second, the REASON why sorcery is bad in the bible(and this is what separates 'magic' from 'miracles')is because by calling upon demons and unclean things for power, we're committing a kind of idolatry. 'Spiritual prosititution', if you will. This page actually explains the topic quite well, and it's backed up by verses; Pharmakeia (Forerunner Commentary)

When I wrote this thread(even if I rambled horribly and my points were all over the place), I did so because I think that on the topic of fictional fantasy, we're condemning people when we ought not to be. God gave us very creative minds, and fantasy is a wonderful genre to express a lot of different things. Is it not weird that someone might write a book where people can still perform miracles, but just because another book labels it something else it is called 'demonic'? As I outlined, unless the fiction is wholly unclean and promotes the biblical definition of witchcraft(communicating with demons and spirits to gain power other than from God), I don't think it's sinful. Fantasy can be a great way to create compelling allegories too, such as The Chronicles of Narnia. I don't see how if it doesn't promote the thing the bible condemns(BIBLICAL witchcraft), and it promotes Christian-compatible values...how is it garbage? Don't forget about what Paul said in regards to worshipping meat to idols. The people didn't believe in those idols; therefore, they were not unclean. We do not write stories or attribute magic in media to be the work of demons(neither in the fictional world or real world)and it certainly seems most cases check out as fine by biblical standards. So I do not see the reasoning for condemning ALL Christians for enjoying fantasy media. As I stated, I think there's nothing wrong with glorifying God by taking inspiration from his creations and methods.

Of course, when it comes to Harry Potter I actually said I didn't really promote reading it. I can't condemn anyone who does since for one, the bible doesn't say anything about Harry Potter--and two, because, as I said, Harry Potter not only being set in the real world REALLY seems to draw dangerously close to biblical witchcraft. In other cases, it doesn't...but the overall blurring of 'good vs divine/wicked vs divine' gets blurred too much for me personally to say I'm OK with it.

Lastly, as I said, some people are definitely not meant for fantasy. I thank God for putting such talented artists and writers in the world when I enjoy good fantasy inspired media, and I always like to look for biblical parallels. Just wanted to put all of this out there to clear the air on an issue that most people seem to tackle from the wrong angles ^ ^

SIDE NOTE: I'm also totally down for changing the terms 'witchcraft' and 'sorcery' in fantasy to avoid negative connections to the real occult. Even if that's jumping through the semantic hoops.

You have given your opinions. I have given mine. They differ.

It is between you and the Lord.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

OH YEAH--Also worth re-stating that, indeed, the source of the power(and what exactly it was used for)is also the main(perhaps even only)line that divides 'sorcerers' from people like the Apostles, Moses, Jesus, etc. Moses vs the Pharoh's Magicians is a great example of this divide--and that's biblical, not just my opinion. I don't think God is going to consider fantasy sinful as long as we draw inspiration from him instead of demons c:

 

[LoricaLady]

I'm not going to debate it. This is not a debate forum.
Blessings and bye.

 

[LoricaLady]

I can't say much other than my opinion is pretty firmly based on scripture, and what we understand magic to be IN the bible. As I said before, if simply doing something that cannot be done by logical means (turning a snake into a staff, water into wine, healing, etc)then wouldn't God be making his own people sin by giving them the ability to perform miracles?

I've read a good amount about biblical witchcraft. For one, it was not called 'witchcraft'--those are the english words. And that deals with semantics; if you call an apple an orange, it doesn't make it an orange. And orange is an orange no matter what you call it. Witchcraft is only witchcraft if you are doing what was described in the bible. Likewise, you aren't performing 'witchcraft' if you're doing a magic trick by arranging a deck of cards to create the illusion of 'knowing' what card someone picked.

Anyways, two things; For one, the word for 'sorcerer' in the bible is actually pharmakeia. Pharmakeia relates to those who use drugs or potions in order to use their 'magic' which is actually borrowed from Spirits and Demons. Second, the REASON why sorcery is bad in the bible(and this is what separates 'magic' from 'miracles')is because by calling upon demons and unclean things for power, we're committing a kind of idolatry. 'Spiritual prosititution', if you will. This page actually explains the topic quite well, and it's backed up by verses; Pharmakeia (Forerunner Commentary)

When I wrote this thread(even if I rambled horribly and my points were all over the place), I did so because I think that on the topic of fictional fantasy, we're condemning people when we ought not to be. God gave us very creative minds, and fantasy is a wonderful genre to express a lot of different things. Is it not weird that someone might write a book where people can still perform miracles, but just because another book labels it something else it is called 'demonic'? As I outlined, unless the fiction is wholly unclean and promotes the biblical definition of witchcraft(communicating with demons and spirits to gain power other than from God), I don't think it's sinful. Fantasy can be a great way to create compelling allegories too, such as The Chronicles of Narnia. I don't see how if it doesn't promote the thing the bible condemns(BIBLICAL witchcraft), and it promotes Christian-compatible values...how is it garbage? Don't forget about what Paul said in regards to worshipping meat to idols. The people didn't believe in those idols; therefore, they were not unclean. We do not write stories or attribute magic in media to be the work of demons(neither in the fictional world or real world)and it certainly seems most cases check out as fine by biblical standards. So I do not see the reasoning for condemning ALL Christians for enjoying fantasy media. As I stated, I think there's nothing wrong with glorifying God by taking inspiration from his creations and methods.

Of course, when it comes to Harry Potter I actually said I didn't really promote reading it. I can't condemn anyone who does since for one, the bible doesn't say anything about Harry Potter--and two, because, as I said, Harry Potter not only being set in the real world REALLY seems to draw dangerously close to biblical witchcraft. In other cases, it doesn't...but the overall blurring of 'good vs divine/wicked vs divine' gets blurred too much for me personally to say I'm OK with it.

Lastly, as I said, some people are definitely not meant for fantasy. I thank God for putting such talented artists and writers in the world when I enjoy good fantasy inspired media, and I always like to look for biblical parallels. Just wanted to put all of this out there to clear the air on an issue that most people seem to tackle from the wrong angles ^ ^

SIDE NOTE: I'm also totally down for changing the terms 'witchcraft' and 'sorcery' in fantasy to avoid negative connections to the real occult. Even if that's jumping through the semantic hoops.

I decided to come back because it keeps bothering me that you are comparing magic to miracles. The Bible strictly forbids magic. You acknowledged it yourself. Pharaoh's magicians were doing magic. Moses, by the hand of the Almighty, was doing miracles.

What is the difference? In magic people tap into the dark side, knowingly or not. They do not appeal to the Creator for help, as He tells us to do in all, but instead try to make things go their way using magic. The Bible makes it very clear that the power behind magic is from the enemy. It is very deceiving and ultimately causes harm to those who practice it. It is a trap.

The miracles of the Lord are entirely different. For His people they are always beneficial, certainly never a trap.

It is hard to communicate with someone who conflates magic with miracles. That is another reason why I did not want to debate.

Friend, the the "father of lies", is slick and deceiving. As the Bible says, he can appear like an angel of light. He doesn't want us turning to the Lord for help, but to "magic", to seek our own ways, to seek "power" from some other source than the One Who IS true power. If your mind is preoccupied with magic, "even" in fantasy media, you are certainly not focused on Him, but are on a slippery slope.

Your Heavenly Father loves us and knows that the snares of "magic" are never going to truly bless us. One can get some crumbs of this or that along the way from magic, but they are like the crumbs left for a bird that ultimately lead to a trap.

Now the Creator is merciful, and will rescue us from those deceptions, clean us up (I was once into astrology and he got me out of that) and forgive us, and give us wisdom. If we are willing.

You also said, " I don't think God is going to consider fantasy sinful as long as we draw inspiration from him instead of demons." Where in fantasy literature do you ever see anyone turning to the Lord for inspiration, or praising Him, or giving Him credit for anything? Does anyone in Harry Potter even acknowledge His existence? Ditto all in the fantasy, magic, witchcraft, etc. genre. They never lead to the Lord, but always are a distraction away from Him and His ways.

 

[timothyu]

In magic people tap into the dark side, knowingly or not.

So people like Copperfield or Chris Angel are aided by demons?

 

[LoricaLady]

So people like Copperfield or Chris Angel are aided by demons?

I do not know who Chris Angel is. In the case of Copperfield you are conflating harmless fiction with works that promote, or at least glorify, witchcraft and magic. Those latter were my concern. Sorry if I did not make that clear.

 

[LoricaLady]

P.S. In fact, I am not sure which Copperfield you are referring to. The David Copperfield of Charles Dickens or the David Copperfield who calls himself an illusionist? The latter does NOT call himself a magician or claim to do magic. Again, you are conflating two separate things if you mean the illusionist. Magic and illusions are no way the same thing. Magic can, and always does, certainly involve illusion. (That is, it involves the illusion that what you are doing is harmless or helpful when really it leads to destruction in the end.) But illusion does not always involve magic by any means. Shouldn't you know that already?

 

[LoricaLady]

P.P.S. I briefly looked on Google to see who Criss Angel is. Now, in addition to calling himself an illusionist I see that he also calls himself a magician. If he calls himself a magician, and really is one, not just using that term very loosely, but is using actual magic, then yes, he is doing things in conjunction with demons. It's sure not being done by the Lord!

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

I decided to come back because it keeps bothering me that you are comparing magic to miracles. The Bible strictly forbids magic. You acknowledged it yourself. Pharaoh's magicians were doing magic. Moses, by the hand of the Almighty, was doing miracles.

What is the difference? In magic people tap into the dark side, knowingly or not. They do not appeal to the Creator for help, as He tells us to do in all, but instead try to make things go their way using magic. The Bible makes it very clear that the power behind magic is from the enemy. It is very deceiving and ultimately causes harm to those who practice it. It is a trap.

The miracles of the Lord are entirely different. For His people they are always beneficial, certainly never a trap.

It is hard to communicate with someone who conflates magic with miracles. That is another reason why I did not want to debate.

Friend, the the "father of lies", is slick and deceiving. As the Bible says, he can appear like an angel of light. He doesn't want us turning to the Lord for help, but to "magic", to seek our own ways, to seek "power" from some other source than the One Who IS true power. If your mind is preoccupied with magic, "even" in fantasy media, you are certainly not focused on Him, but are on a slippery slope.

Your Heavenly Father loves us and knows that the snares of "magic" are never going to truly bless us. One can get some crumbs of this or that along the way from magic, but they are like the crumbs left for a bird that ultimately lead to a trap.

Now the Creator is merciful, and will rescue us from those deceptions, clean us up (I was once into astrology and he got me out of that) and forgive us, and give us wisdom. If we are willing.

You also said, " I don't think God is going to consider fantasy sinful as long as we draw inspiration from him instead of demons." Where in fantasy literature do you ever see anyone turning to the Lord for inspiration, or praising Him, or giving Him credit for anything? Does anyone in Harry Potter even acknowledge His existence? Ditto all in the fantasy, magic, witchcraft, etc. genre. They never lead to the Lord, but always are a distraction away from Him and His ways.

Firstly, the word 'magic', as I know it, is not used in all english translations. Take Acts 19:19, for example;

"19 And a number of those who had practiced magic arts brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted the value of them and found it came to fifty thousand pieces of silver."

That was from the 'English Standard Version'. Now, let us look at two other popular translations;

"19 Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver." - King James Version

"19 A number who had practiced sorcery brought their scrolls together and burned them publicly. When they calculated the value of the scrolls, the total came to fifty thousand drachmas." -New International Version

Note how KJV uses the term 'curious arts'--not magic. The NIV translation uses the term 'sorcery', which as I explained before, relates to the greek word Pharmakeia; which I already explained what pharmakeia means, and it is not our usual definition of 'magic'.

The magic you see in TV shows, books, games, etc...a good chunk of it(not all of course)is not biblical witchcraft. Calling it the same 'sorcery' that was used in the bible is like calling an apple an orange. An apple is not an orange JUST because you use the term 'orange' to describe it. They're both fruit, but they aren't the same thing. Same with (fictional)magic and witchcraft--they aren't the same thing.

Obviously, if you tried to use magic in real life, it's witchcraft by default BECAUSE we all know nobody can do those things without the aid of demons--and we certainly know it isn't from God. That's what divides miracles from sorcery--one is from God and is used for good, the other is from demons and is used by idolatrous, rebellious people against God. My point in comparing miracles to 'magic' is that they do the same things, visually speaking, but the main difference is in why they're used and who the power is being drawn from.

If you say that a story with magic is bad just because the power isn't directly stated to be from God, why is it you automatically attribute it to demons? Can't stories have settings where magic is a natural element, created alongside the people who use it as a tool? One could argue that under that kind of pretense, writing ANY story without Christianity or God is sinful.

C.S Lewis and his stories have been beloved by Christians for ages. Narnia has many allegories for Christianity without it taking place in a world with God as we know him. Christians love it because we get to see parallels to God's goodness even in fictional worlds.

Long story short; magic in fantasy is not real magic. Real magic is 'occult' and involves demons, divination, incantations, human sacrifices, and spirits. It is not yelling 'FIRE BLAST' and shooting a ball of fire in a cartoon that doesn't even take place in our world, or casting a 'spell'(which doesn't even follow how real spells work)to turn a pumpkin into a carriage. It is not a sin for all Christians to enjoy fantasy, though certainly for some it very well may be a sin to them if they feel convicted about it(refer to the biblical passage about eating meat used in worshipping idols)


P.S. I noticed you mentioned Astrology. Please, astrology is absolutely nothing like fantasy magic. It's divination, which IS a biblical sin--and astrology is a real-life practice, not common at all in fantasy.

 

[LoricaLady]

The Father led me out of astrology. It gives the appearance of being scientific but is not at all. For example what looks like a conjunction of two planets to us on earth isn't any such thing from any other vantage point. Notice all the pagan names of the planets. Astrology really puts you into this peg and that peg with this moon sign and that sun sign and so on. Very limiting. The Father frees us from all that.

It is just another deception from the evil one to keep people in bondage and to keep people turning to it instead of to Him where the real truth and light come from. I don't expect you to see that any time today. It has to be, as with me, something the Holy Spirit shows you.

I never said astrology is the same thing as magic and fantasy. I just used it as an example of another deception from the evil one, which I escaped.

I am not going to argue with you about magic and fantasy in the media anymore. Again, the Holy Spirit has to show you. Not me. I used to justify a lot of things that I now know are not really of the Lord. At all.

It is between you and Him. Wish I had more time for this, but I really do not and have to run.

Best wishes, and may we all come into all truth.

 

[LoricaLady]

P.S. I'm not saying there isn't anything to astrology. There is. For example, I saw some statistically totally improbable matches with people based on their charts. They would go out and find someone else with the same matches, without even knowing it, sometimes. But it never really pans out over all in the long run in terms of improving your life. That's typical for what comes from Satan. Just because something works - sometimes - that doesn't mean it is good for you and may be a colossal waste of time. At best.