All Does Not Radically Mean All?

[GingerBeer]

I never said God's love never ends.

Is that a typo, did you mean "I never said God's love never ends."

 

[renniks]

Fine lies posts: all will be saved, all will be saved, all will be saved, rinse, repeat indefinitely.

 

[GingerBeer]

Dear Ginger: My friend my faith is not in the Book, but in the Author & Finisher whose glorious Life leads us into Himself.

That is a relief, placing one's faith in a book must be some kind of idolatry.

 

[martymonster]

Apparently, "All" only means "All" when you want it to, but if it doesn't only mean "All" when you want it to mean "All", it's because you've taken the scriptures "out of context" or you can't "exigent" or some other vast other array of excuses, but it's alright when I do it.

 

[GingerBeer]

I could be jealous of a lot of stuff but not ...

Excellent

 

[GingerBeer]

Apparently, "All" only means "All" when you want it to, but if it doesn't only mean "All" when you want it to mean "All", it's because you've taken the scriptures "out of context" or you can't "exigent" or some other vast other array of excuses, but it's alright when I do it.

Very good use of ironic restatement of one's interlocutor's claim.

 

[Not David]

Is that a typo, did you mean "I never said God's love never ends."

Is that wrongly worded?

 

[AvisG]

My friend my faith is not in the Book, but in the Author & Finisher whose glorious Life leads us into Himself.

The problem is the one I identified, which you have conveniently ignored: Regardless of what one thinks about the Bible, the Gospels are the only historical record of what Jesus said and believed. What the Gospels report He said and believed is completely at odds with the views you are promoting. If we are entitled to completely ignore or reinvent the Jesus of the Gospels, then in what sense is what we are promoting still Christianity? Universalism is standard New Age fare, but I have an impossible time seeing how it can be squared with the only Jesus we know about.

 

[FineLinen]

Universalism is wonderfully appealing, at least to me. Annihilation is at least more appealing (to me) than eternal torment.

HOWEVER, both positions face the problem that they are DIRECTLY CONTRARY to the words of Jesus. The biblical Jesus is the only one we have. If we can't trust what Jesus said - i.e., trust the Gospels at least being in the ballpark of what He actually said - Christianity pretty much turns into a pumpkin.

You would have to conclude either "Jesus didn't know what He was talking about on this core issue" or "the Gospels grossly misstate Jesus' position on this core issue." Either one is simply unacceptable for any sort of Christianity.

I'm willing to be flexible where flexibility is possible. Regarding Hell, I'm willing to say "Perhaps the biblical references to fire and torment are hyperbole. In any event, we'll see in the end that whatever Hell turns out to be is worthy of the God we worship." But I'm not willing to invent a completely new religion and claim it's still Christianity.

Dear Avis: At the foundation of an eternal hell of unending torment is the belief in a God who could conceive such a place. I cannot in my wildest imagination think such a Being exists!

My Heavenly Lord does all things well, His essence makes it impossible to do anything that is short of a perfect outcome.

 

[AvisG]

Dear Avis: At the foundation of an eternal hell of unending torment is the belief in a God who could conceive such a place. I cannot in my wildest imagination think such a Being exists!

I can't conceive of such a God either, but this isn't a license to flush the historical Jesus and substitute my judgment of what God "ought" to be like. As I've said, I make my peace by simply adopting the attitude that "Whatever 'Hell' means and whatever it actually turns out to be, we will see that it is worthy of the perfectly holy, perfectly just and omnibenevolent Creator we worship." This at least does not do violence to the historical Jesus.

 

[FineLinen]

The problem is the one I identified, which you have conveniently ignored: Regardless of what one thinks about the Bible, the Gospels are the only historical record of what Jesus said and believed. What the Gospels report He said and believed is completely at odds with the views you are promoting. If we are entitled to completely ignore or reinvent the Jesus of the Gospels, then in what sense is what we are promoting still Christianity? Universalism is standard New Age fare, but I have an impossible time seeing how it can be squared with the only Jesus we know about.

Dear Avis: The Lord Jesus Christ declares He will draw all mankind unto Himself. That draw is expressed in the koine thelo and will be consummated. He further refuses to allow broken pieces of fish and bread to be lost/wasted. He loses nothing, not leftover remnants of fish and bread and most assuredly the broken remnants of Adam1 on whose behalf He is manifested as the Mercy Seat.

Jesus Christ loses NOTHING

 

[FineLinen]

I can't conceive of such a God either, but this isn't a license to flush the historical Jesus and substitute my judgment of what God "ought" to be like. As I've said, I make my peace by simply adopting the attitude that "Whatever 'Hell' means and whatever it actually turns out to be, we will see that it is worthy of the perfectly holy, perfectly just and omnibenevolent Creator we worship." This at least does not do violence to the historical Jesus.

Dear Avis: The Christ of God stands quite secure as the Archegos and Prodromos! He as the Prince-Leader leads the broken remnants of the fracture of the fall of Adam1 back into union with the Father of all fathers. Every last digit of His reconciliation reaches consummation.

Every last remnant IN/EN union with His Name

 

[FineLinen]

Remember this, friends, our Father loves us exceedingly abundantly beyond all we can ask or even think. His steadfast love and mercy never ceases! The Lord Jesus Christ declares we are to forgive our enemies 70X7.

Does His forgiveness exceed ours?

 

[com7fy8]

What does it mean to be IN Christ?

"we who first trusted in Christ" (in Ephesians 1:12) > it means we have trusted in Jesus, and we depend on Him.

"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17)

It means we have been joined spiritually to Jesus so each of us is "one spirit with Him."

"'I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.'" (Galatians 2:20)

It means we are one with Jesus in us who has us living and loving like Him, more and more as we grow and mature in this.

 

[FineLinen]

"we who first trusted in Christ" (in Ephesians 1:12) > it means we have trusted in Jesus, and we depend on Him.

"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17)

It means we have been joined spiritually to Jesus so each of us is "one spirit with Him."

"'I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.'" (Galatians 2:20)

It means we are one with Jesus in us who has us living and loving like Him, more and more as we grow and mature in this.

Dear Com: You have presented to us precisely what union with Christ Jesus entails. And yes, I am in total agreement. Those who are in Christ Jesus on this side are what has been described earlier as the "especially" of His saving grace. You should now be coming into focus of what the worship of Jesus Christ described by St. Paul means as every being, in every dimension of the heavens & earth & underworld bow and confess IN/EN His mighty Name.

Not "at" His Name: "IN" His Name

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Why do you keep posting the same thing??
You have already 6 posts on universalism on the front page!

I said the same thing and got slapped for "flaming." I hope you fare better.

 

[GingerBeer]

Is that wrongly worded?

I hoped you'd tell me. What did you intend it to mean?

 

[Not David]

I hoped you'd tell me. What did you intend it to mean?

I never said God's love stops? finishes? will at some time end?

 

[DamianWarS]

1 Cor. 15:22

“For as in Adam some die, so also in Christ some shall be made alive. But each in his own order; Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then comes the end, when He delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished some rule and some authority and power.”

Rev. 5:13

“And some created things that are in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and some things in them, I heard saying, To Him who sits on the throne and the Lamb, be blessing and honour and glory and dominion and power forever.”

Col. 1:18-20

“He too is that head whose body is the Church, the Firstborn from the dead, he is to the Church the Source of its life, that in some things He might occupy the foremost place/ to be in some things alone supreme. For it pleased the Father that in him the divine nature in some of its fulness should dwell. And, having made peace through the blood of His cross, by him to reconcile some things unto Himself; by him, I say, whether they be things on earth, or things in heaven. And you that were sometimes alienated…”

Acts 3:20,21

“And He will send Jesus, your destined Christ, yet heaven must retain Him, until the restitution of some things. (when some things are put right)”

1 Cor. 15:28

“And when some things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put some things under Him, that God may be some in some.”

1 Cor. 15:25,27

“For He must reign until He hath put some enemies under His feet…For He hath put some things under His feet. But when He saith some things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put some things under Him.”

Romans 11:32

“For God has consigned some men to disobedience that He might have mercy upon some.”

Eph. 4:10

“Yea, He who came down is the same who is gone up, far above some heavens, that He might fill some things with His Presence.”

John 5:28

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which some that are in the graves shall hear His voice. Those who have done good will to live and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.”

1 Timothy 2:4

“For this is good and pleasing in the eyes of God our Saviour; who will have some men to be saved and come to an increasing knowledge of the truth.”

1 Timothy 2:6

“For there is one intermediary (One who brings God and men together) who gave Himself a ransom in behalf of some to be testified in due time.”

Cor. 5:15

“For the love of God overmasters us because we judge that if one died for some, then were some dead; And that His purpose in dying for some was that men, while still in life, should cease to live for themselves, and should live for Him who for their sake died and was raised to life.”

Col. 1:16

"For by Him were some things created, of things in heaven and on earth, things seen and things unseen (angels or archangels and some of the powers of Heaven)…some things were created by Him, and for Him (some were made by Christ for His own use and glory.)

John 3:35

“The Father loves the Son, and has given some things into His hand (has given Him control over less than everything). Whoever trusts on the Son possesses eternal life and he who does not obey the Son, God’s displeasure hangs over him continually.”

Gal. 3:20

“But the Scripture has concluded/consigned some without exception to the custody of sin, in order that the promise by faith in Christ Jesus might be given to those who believe in Him.”

Heb. 1:2

“God…hath in these days spoken unto us in His Son who is the predestined Lord of the universe. (whom he has appointed heir of some things)”

2 Cor. 5:14

“For the love of Christ constraineth/overmasters/compels/controls us, and this is the conviction we have reached; if one man died on behalf of some, then some thereby became dead men. Christ died for some, so that being alive should no longer mean living with our own life, but with his life who died for some of us and has risen again.”

Heb.8:11

“And they shall not teach some men his neighbor, and some his brother, saying get to know the Lord, for some of them shall know me from small to great. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness…”

Acts 10:36

"The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: He is Lord of some.

Rom. 11:36

“For from him some things come; through Him some things exists; and in him some things end.” (For of him and through him, and to him are some things.)

Eph. 4:6

“One Lord, one faith, one baptism. One God and Father of some, who is over some, and works through some, and dwells in some.”

Heb. 12:23

“To the festal gathering and Church of the first-born, enrolled as citizens in heaven, and to God the Judge of some men and unto the spirits of righteous ones made perfect.”

James 2:10

“For whomsoever shall keep the whole law, but fails in a single point, has become guilty of violating some.”

Romans 3:22,23

“…the righteous of God which comes by believing in Jesus Christ. …For some have sinned/ none have attained the glorious likeness of God/lack the glory that comes from God/ are deprived of the Divine splendour.”

John 17:2

“As thou has made him sovereign over some of mankind that he should give aeonios life to as many as thou hast given him.”

Romans 9:5

“The patriarchs are theirs and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. May God who is supreme above some, be blessed throughout the ages.”

2 Peter 3:9

“The Lord is not slack/does not loiter/ is not dilatory concerning his promise, according to some people’s conception of slowness; but He bears patiently with you, because it is not His will for any to be lost, but for some to come/reach repentance.”

Phil. 2:10,11

In order that in adoration of the Name of Jesus some knees will bow themselves and openly acknowledge with joy, in celebration and praise, that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. This profession and confession of His lordship shall be open and freely proclaimed, acknowledged joyfully by some beings in the heavens, by some beings on the earth and by some beings in the underworld.

Please Remember…

All does not radically mean all.

Whole is not whole.

All = Some

have I seen this before...? Does All Radically Mean All? ...ah there it is. I guess we've hit the rotation already

 

[FineLinen]

have I seen this before...? Does All Radically Mean All? ...ah there it is. I guess we've hit the rotation already

Dear Damian: The Christian Scriptures has no middle ground on the scope of pa’ß. Of that scope no quality koine authority will disagree. Either pa’ß means the radical all or some. I would appreciate if you, or any here, can provide koine scholarship that declares otherwise and we will go from there. Let's put Dr. Robt. Young to the test.

“The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation . For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.”