All Does Not Radically Mean All?

yeshuaslavejeff

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All will be resurrected and renew yet not all will like it.
That seems to plainly contradict Scripture even without believing the added heresy the others with the op are promoting.
(unless 'renew' doesn't mean new heart, etc... since those resurrected to destruction do not receive a new heart nor a new spirit nor a new mind)
 
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com7fy8

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1 Cor. 15:22

“For as in Adam some die, so also in Christ some shall be made alive. But each in his own order; Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then comes the end, when He delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished some rule and some authority and power.”
All who are in Christ will be made alive, but not all will be in Jesus.

It clarifies that "those who are Christ's at His coming" will be the fruits, but this does not include those who are not Christ's at His coming.
 
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AvisG

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Universalism is wonderfully appealing, at least to me. Annihilation is at least more appealing (to me) than eternal torment.

HOWEVER, both positions face the problem that they are DIRECTLY CONTRARY to the words of Jesus. The biblical Jesus is the only one we have. If we can't trust what Jesus said - i.e., trust the Gospels at least being in the ballpark of what He actually said - Christianity pretty much turns into a pumpkin.

You would have to conclude either "Jesus didn't know what He was talking about on this core issue" or "the Gospels grossly misstate Jesus' position on this core issue." Either one is simply unacceptable for any sort of Christianity.

I'm willing to be flexible where flexibility is possible. Regarding Hell, I'm willing to say "Perhaps the biblical references to fire and torment are hyperbole. In any event, we'll see in the end that whatever Hell turns out to be is worthy of the God we worship." But I'm not willing to invent a completely new religion and claim it's still Christianity.
 
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com7fy8

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Rev. 5:13

“And some created things that are in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and some things in them, I heard saying, To Him who sits on the throne and the Lamb, be blessing and honour and glory and dominion and power forever.”
After God resurrects the earth to be new, then all will be new, but this will not include Satan and his. This is talking about God's good creation resurrected > Romans 8:21 > this is not talking about Satan and his.
 
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com7fy8

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Col. 1:18-20

“He too is that head whose body is the Church, the Firstborn from the dead, he is to the Church the Source of its life, that in some things He might occupy the foremost place/ to be in some things alone supreme. For it pleased the Father that in him the divine nature in some of its fulness should dwell. And, having made peace through the blood of His cross, by him to reconcile some things unto Himself; by him, I say, whether they be things on earth, or things in heaven. And you that were sometimes alienated…”
I think we can rightly understand that "all things", here, does not include Satan's evil things. Jesus will not be supreme in what is evil ! ! !

So, it is wise to know what "all" is referring to.
 
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com7fy8

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Acts 3:20,21

“And He will send Jesus, your destined Christ, yet heaven must retain Him, until the restitution of some things. (when some things are put right)”
Putting "all" things right will include putting evil beings in their place . . . the right place for them > the flaming sewer which burns with fire and brimstone.
 
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com7fy8

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1 Cor. 15:28

“And when some things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put some things under Him, that God may be some in some.
God will not be all there is in what is evil!! But where we are, in sharing with Jesus, God will be all. We are talking about what is promised to us, here. This is not promised to Satan and his.
 
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com7fy8

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1 Cor. 15:25,27

“For He must reign until He hath put some enemies under His feet…For He hath put some things under His feet. But when He saith some things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put some things under Him.”
Here is one example of how we need to correctly understand what "all" means. In this case we have one exception.

We need to know who and what is being referred to.
 
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com7fy8

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Romans 11:32

“For God has consigned some men to disobedience that He might have mercy upon some.”
Here it can be understood how the first "all" refers to all who have sinned. And the second can refer to all who have received God's mercy. But nowhere does God's word say He will save all.

But we do have some qualification in 1 Timothy 4:10 >

"For to this end we also labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." (1 Timothy 4:10)

Yes, indeed, this does say God is Savior of "all" ! ! ! Good, but > it also is written,

"especially of those who believe."
 
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1 Cor. 15:22

“For as in Adam some die, so also in Christ some shall be made alive. But each in his own order; Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then comes the end, when He delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished some rule and some authority and power.”

Rev. 5:13

“And some created things that are in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and some things in them, I heard saying, To Him who sits on the throne and the Lamb, be blessing and honour and glory and dominion and power forever.”

Col. 1:18-20

“He too is that head whose body is the Church, the Firstborn from the dead, he is to the Church the Source of its life, that in some things He might occupy the foremost place/ to be in some things alone supreme. For it pleased the Father that in him the divine nature in some of its fulness should dwell. And, having made peace through the blood of His cross, by him to reconcile some things unto Himself; by him, I say, whether they be things on earth, or things in heaven. And you that were sometimes alienated…”

Acts 3:20,21

“And He will send Jesus, your destined Christ, yet heaven must retain Him, until the restitution of some things. (when some things are put right)”

1 Cor. 15:28

“And when some things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put some things under Him, that God may be some in some.

1 Cor. 15:25,27

“For He must reign until He hath put some enemies under His feet…For He hath put some things under His feet. But when He saith some things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put some things under Him.”

Romans 11:32

“For God has consigned some men to disobedience that He might have mercy upon some.”

Eph. 4:10

“Yea, He who came down is the same who is gone up, far above some heavens, that He might fill some things with His Presence.”

John 5:28

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which some that are in the graves shall hear His voice. Those who have done good will to live and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.”

1 Timothy 2:4

“For this is good and pleasing in the eyes of God our Saviour; who will have some men to be saved and come to an increasing knowledge of the truth.”

1 Timothy 2:6

“For there is one intermediary (One who brings God and men together) who gave Himself a ransom in behalf of some to be testified in due time.”

Cor. 5:15

“For the love of God overmasters us because we judge that if one died for some, then were some dead; And that His purpose in dying for some was that men, while still in life, should cease to live for themselves, and should live for Him who for their sake died and was raised to life.”

Col. 1:16

"For by Him were some things created, of things in heaven and on earth, things seen and things unseen (angels or archangels and some of the powers of Heaven)…some things were created by Him, and for Him (some were made by Christ for His own use and glory.)

John 3:35

“The Father loves the Son, and has given some things into His hand (has given Him control over less than everything). Whoever trusts on the Son possesses eternal life and he who does not obey the Son, God’s displeasure hangs over him continually.”

Gal. 3:20

“But the Scripture has concluded/consigned some without exception to the custody of sin, in order that the promise by faith in Christ Jesus might be given to those who believe in Him.”

Heb. 1:2

“God…hath in these days spoken unto us in His Son who is the predestined Lord of the universe. (whom he has appointed heir of some things)”

2 Cor. 5:14

“For the love of Christ constraineth/overmasters/compels/controls us, and this is the conviction we have reached; if one man died on behalf of some, then some thereby became dead men. Christ died for some, so that being alive should no longer mean living with our own life, but with his life who died for some of us and has risen again.”

Heb.8:11

“And they shall not teach some men his neighbor, and some his brother, saying get to know the Lord, for some of them shall know me from small to great. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness…”

Acts 10:36

"The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: He is Lord of some.

Rom. 11:36

“For from him some things come; through Him some things exists; and in him some things end.” (For of him and through him, and to him are some things.)

Eph. 4:6

“One Lord, one faith, one baptism. One God and Father of some, who is over some, and works through some, and dwells in some.”

Heb. 12:23

“To the festal gathering and Church of the first-born, enrolled as citizens in heaven, and to God the Judge of some men and unto the spirits of righteous ones made perfect.”

James 2:10

“For whomsoever shall keep the whole law, but fails in a single point, has become guilty of violating some.”

Romans 3:22,23

“…the righteous of God which comes by believing in Jesus Christ. …For some have sinned/ none have attained the glorious likeness of God/lack the glory that comes from God/ are deprived of the Divine splendour.”

John 17:2

“As thou has made him sovereign over some of mankind that he should give aeonios life to as many as thou hast given him.”

Romans 9:5

“The patriarchs are theirs and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. May God who is supreme above some, be blessed throughout the ages.”

2 Peter 3:9

“The Lord is not slack/does not loiter/ is not dilatory concerning his promise, according to some people’s conception of slowness; but He bears patiently with you, because it is not His will for any to be lost, but for some to come/reach repentance.”

Phil. 2:10,11

In order that in adoration of the Name of Jesus some knees will bow themselves and openly acknowledge with joy, in celebration and praise, that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. This profession and confession of His lordship shall be open and freely proclaimed, acknowledged joyfully by some beings in the heavens, by some beings on the earth and by some beings in the underworld.

Please Remember…

All does not radically mean all.

Whole is not whole.

All = Some
Huh? What's your point? :scratch:
 
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FineLinen

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Here it can be understood how the first "all" refers to all who have sinned. And the second can refer to all who have received God's mercy. But nowhere does God's word say He will save all.

But we do have some qualification in 1 Timothy 4:10 >

"For to this end we also labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." (1 Timothy 4:10)

Yes, indeed, this does say God is Savior of "all" ! ! ! Good, but > it also is written,

"especially of those who believe."

Dear Com: The first all and the second all are identical in scope. Those who in this present dimension experience His glorious Reconciliation are the very ones in 1 Tim. 4:10.

You will note: especially/ malista does not mean ONLY. That, my friend, requires the koine monos or monon.

God is the Saviour of ALL mankind, malista those who trust in Him/ who believe.
 
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Anthony2019

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As part of my job, I co-ordinate a Unit that provides nursing care to people in their later years, many of them palliative. Through my career, I have cared for people from different faiths (and none), and have often been humbled by their life stories. To care for someone in such a desperate situation, providing pain relief for the suffering, those who have lost memories of their lives, their loved ones and the comforts that they once knew. This has always been a great theological challenge for me. If, I as a mere human being, feel moved by another person's suffering and seek to provide comfort and freedom of distress, then how much more do I believe that God is moved by their situation.

I am not a universalist, and I tend to follow the traditional teachings of the church regarding sin and judgement, but exactly how that will take place - I do not have the answers. What I do know that that the Lord I serve and worship is our God of love and that His love and mercy for my fellow human beings is infinitely wider and greater than my own. Our God is a righteous judge but I am always very careful not to put limits on his grace and mercy.
 
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FineLinen

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All who are in Christ will be made alive, but not all will be in Jesus.

It clarifies that "those who are Christ's at His coming" will be the fruits, but this does not include those who are not Christ's at His coming.

Dear Com: I have one question for you. What does it mean to be IN Christ?
 
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renniks

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FineLinen

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As part of my job, I co-ordinate a Unit that provides nursing care to people in their later years, many of them palliative. Through my career, I have cared for people from different faiths (and none), and have often been humbled by their life stories. To care for someone in such a desperate situation, providing pain relief for the suffering, those who have lost memories of their lives, their loved ones and the comforts that they once knew. This has always been a great theological challenge for me. If, I as a mere human being, feel moved by another person's suffering and seek to provide comfort and freedom of distress, then how much more do I believe that God is moved by their situation.

I am not a universalist, and I tend to follow the traditional teachings of the church regarding sin and judgement, but exactly how that will take place - I do not have the answers. What I do know that that the Lord I serve and worship is our God of love and that His love and mercy for my fellow human beings is infinitely wider and greater than my own. Our God is a righteous judge but I am always very careful not to put limits on his grace and mercy.

Dear Anthony: In all are backyards are broken and bruised individuals in various stages of despair. I personally know some so broken they are beyond repair. The scope of ALL/pas is radical!

Please read the following in the centre of Romans 8>>>>

The whole of created life SHALL BE DELIVERED...
 
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FineLinen

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That's what you get for imagining that a book will answer every question definitively.

Dear Ginger: My friend my faith is not in the Book, but in the Author & Finisher whose glorious Life leads us into Himself.

54857-33934-066.jpg
 
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