What day is the sabath what day does the bible say?

[helmut]

the sabbath day (saturday) is for jewish folks. the Lord's day (sunday) is for Christians.

Where is that in the Bible?

Well the first part of the sentence is in the Bible: In the Decalogue the Sabbath is connected to the remembrance of being a slave in Egypt. See also Ezechiel 20:
10 So I led them out of the land of Egypt and brought them into the wilderness. 11 I gave them my statutes and made known to them my rules, by which, if a person does them, he shall live. 12 Moreover, I gave them my Sabbaths, as a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them.

Notice that our Lord tied the Sabbath to the creation, not to many event involving only Israel. So since we all benefited from God's act of creation, it seems to me that the obligation to honor the Sabbath is universal.

As shown above, this is a half-truth. Even in the 4nd commandment you can find the exodus in the Deuteronomy version of the Decalogue:
Deut 5:12 “Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant, or your ox or your donkey or any of your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. 15 You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

There is no hint in the Bible that the Sabbath is given to people outside Israel. Not even to the believers that come to Christ as a people of the Lord (cf. Acts 15:14ff)

There is no command in the New Testament that nullifies this command in the Old Testament.

On the other hand, nowhere in the NT it is said that believers from the Gentiles are bound to the law of Moses. The part of the Torah we should obey can be found in Acts 15. Unless there is another verse in the NT that says we should follow a certain command, the rest is not binding for non-Jewish Christians.

 

[helmut]

Why do people think God changed His laws?

He didn't change4 His laws, and he didn't change the recipient of the laws: the people of Israel.

There are only a few laws in the Tora that were also given to non-Jews, if we disregard cultic decrees (sacrifices etc.) we can find them listed in Acts 15:20. Saying that Gentile Christians have to obey other laws that are not mentioned in the NT is the same as suggesting that God changed his commands.

 

[helmut]

Would you agree that others should not judge us Catholics for the externals of Catholicism?

These externals can drive people away from Christ. When a pagan idol is buried in a statue of a Saint, are the pagans converted by this act really come closer to Christ when they kneel before this statue?

In also have a problem when an "external" consists in an act explicitly forbidden in the Bible.

 

[helmut]

And who are you or I to say what God wants when He purposely put in the Bible that the Church is the pillar an foundation of truth. Christ left a Church not every individual to decide what to do for themselves.

But the Church of Christ is visible in local churches of different denominations. Christ certainly does not want churches that condemn each other (though heresy should be condemned). And he certainly does not want a church that started as a division between the Latin church leader and his Greeks colleagues to be seen as the only true church.

 

[helmut]

Easy. By seeing how people place an over emphasis on the Bible

.. like Jesus and Paul, right?

 

[helmut]

I can agree with most of what you wrote. But if the Sabbatarians are fenced in by obedience to the Law by judging against the non-Sabbatarians, could some anti-Catholics also be fenced in by the obedience to the Law by judging against Catholics in graven images and such?

Well, unlike with the Sabbath, which is not commanded in the NT, there are plenty of warnings against idolatry (which literally means veneration of images) in the NT.

 

[helmut]

What was the purpose of the Law...?

Deut 31:26: The Law is a witness against sinners, it makes sin visible.

If so, how should we then treat it (the Law) or go about it in our ways today, etc...?

This and answers on some other questions you posted can be found in Romans 7.

 

[helmut]

Sun worship (man Made)

The early Christians who met on the 1st day of the week (e.g. 1.Cor 16:2) would be rather astonished if thes were told that this was Sun worship.

Days are not that important: Romans 14:5.

Do not condemn others see post #101.

 

[helmut]

"During the later periods of Roman history, sun worship gained in importance and ultimately led to what has been called a “solar monotheism.”

This is off-topic. No-one worship the sun on the Lord's day, as the Sunday is called in Revelation.

 

[helmut]

I did not realize that Messianic worshiped on Saturday until this tread came along. On searching the internet is seems all Messianic churches are this way. I believe it would have helped had the apostles themselves addressed this issue as there is very little support for the Saturday sabbath observance in the New Testament.

It is addressed, e.g. in Romans 14:5; Gal 4:8-11 and other verses.

While it is wrong to rebuke a weak Christians that observes days, we should stay strong against the heresy that such observance is necessary to be redeemed.

 

[helmut]

If they know the history of how Sunday got its name, then the statement that it is not about sun worship resolves itself.

So only Speaker of English and some others languages have to be rebuked for worshiping on Sunday? And not those which call the Sunday as it is called in the Bible ("lordish day")? In other words, Italians, Spaniard, Greeks etc. are blameless when they worship on the first day of the week, but Germans are not?

EDIT: Or take it a step further. If an Adventist in Germany celebrates on a Samstag (a word derived from "Sabbath"), you will certainly say that he is correct. but what about Adventists that live in a region of Germany where they call this day Sonnabend ("Sun's eve")? Do they practice Sun-worship?

 

[helmut]

The lunar month has thirty days.

No, it has 29 day months and 30 day months, 29.5306 days per month in the average.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The connection between sabbaths and new moon, as seen in several OT verses, supports the assumption that the lunar sabbath was original, and the later continuous count a later (well, over 2,500 years ago ...) development.
It is impossible to give a proof to this (maybe some archeological discover can decide this point in the future?).

Which verses? There is no proof of a lunar weekly Sabbath.

 

[helmut]

The Papal calendar is a mathematical calendar and the months are derived from mathematical calculation. The Papal calendar has nothing to do with lunar monthly cycles, the papacy never celebrated a new moon day.

Beside the Gregorian calendar we use by ourselves, there is a second Gregorian calendar which calculates full months, both are used to calculate the day of Easter.

 

[helmut]

Which verses? There is no proof of a lunar weekly Sabbath.

There is also no proof of a continuous counting. We can be rather sure that continuous counting was used in the time of Esra, it is rather improbable that a change in counting of Sabbaths occurred after that. But as to the time before that, there is only speculation. No proof for one or the other side.

But as to connection between new moon and Sabbath:
2Kings 4:23 And he said, “Why will you go to him today? It is neither new moon nor Sabbath.” She said, “All is well.”
Is 1,13 Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations— I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly.

No proof, but a hint that the two feasts may be related.

 

[visionary]

There is also no proof of a continuous counting. We can be rather sure that continuous counting was used in the time of Esra, it is rather improbable that a change in counting of Sabbaths occurred after that. But as to the time before that, there is only speculation. No proof for one or the other side.

But as to connection between new moon and Sabbath:
2Kings 4:23 And he said, “Why will you go to him today? It is neither new moon nor Sabbath.” She said, “All is well.”
Is 1,13 Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations— I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly.

No proof, but a hint that the two feasts may be related.

Related only as times of offerings.

 

[helmut]

The Hebrew calendar did not have a continuous weekly cycle.

The Jewish calendar has one. And whether your "Hebrew" calendar was the calendar in ancient Israel, or rather like the Jewish calendar with a continuous counting, is a matter of speculation. There are no hard facts to decide this, only tradition that says there was never a change, continuous count from the creation of the earth, and hints to the contrary.

Above all, the questions which days are to be set apart (and even the question if there are such days) is a personal matter according to Roman 14:5. It's no law that Christians have to obey.

 

[helmut]

Ins't the Israelite calendar from ancient times a lunar calendar with 12 months of 30 days or something like that and a few days at the end of the year treated as extra days to bring the total to 365 days?

This is the calendar from Qumran. Is there any evidence it was older than the "karaite" (later name) calendar used by the majority of the Jews in that era?

 

[helmut]

No, the lunisolar year was more than ten days shorter than the Papal year.

Nonsense. The term lunisolar refers to a system where the length of a year is (ideally) the length of a solar year, and the length of a month is (ideally) the length of a lunar (synodic) month.

A lunar year (with no leap months) is about 354 days, or more than 10 days shorter than a solar year. But this is not lunisolar.

 

[helmut]

Easter Sunday morning worship facing the rising sun in the east.

Well, not in my church.