LDS LDS Jesus Could Have Lost His Godhood

[He is the way]

Your verse spamming doesn't help your cause. Our good works are not salvational.

As I have said many times, we are not saved by works, neither are we saved without them. It is by grace that we are saved after all that we can do. Those who do not LOVE Jesus Christ do not keep the commandments by LOVING their neighbor. Like the rich man who did not help Lazarus who died they will be in a place of torment.

(New Testament | Matthew 25:41 - 46)

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[He is the way]

Again, "Here's a bunch of verses; maybe if I shoot them at you with no explanation as to how they support my position, it'll make my point for me" is no way to discuss anything.

I am mulling over reporting it to a mod as a kind of actual spamming because it so shuts down any discussion, though I don't know what if any good that might do, since spamming with the Bible might be given wider latitude here on account of how many people may think that this is somehow a legitimate thing to do. (You know, the whole "The Bible contains these words, and they are the words I used, so ta-da: I'm right, and you're the devil's cabana boy" way of thinking where nobody has to actually defend their position with any kind of reasoning or reflection upon what the words themselves mean, and why they mean that and not what someone else says they mean. The "debate" part of being a debate forum, which HITW's method handily avoids participating in.)

People have confidence in the scriptures as being the truth and the gospel. We use the striptures to prove a point. I was showing that there ate many scriptures in the Bible that let us know the importance of doing works in order to have their name in the book of life. I would say that is important to most everyone.

(New Testament | Revelation 3:5)

5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

 

[Rescued One]

People have confidence in the scriptures as being the truth and the gospel. We use the striptures to prove a point. I was showing that there ate many scriptures in the Bible that let us know the importance of doing works in order to have their name in the book of life. I would say that is important to most everyone...

We know what the Bible teaches and your posts are redundant.

How many times do we have to repeat 2 Timothy 3:15 -17? It is written to the people of God, not to unbelievers.
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

You talk about earning the right to have our names in the book of life. We can't earn that right. We can't pay for God's gift to us! If we could we would be purchasing eternal life by our own works.

The GIFT of God is eternal life paid for by the blood of Christ.

 

[Rescued One]

As I have said many times, we are not saved by works, neither are we saved without them. It is by grace that we are saved after all that we can do.

Mormons are required to work for eternal life.

It is by grace that we are saved after all that we can do.

"The Law of God" refers to Mormonism.

Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Entichment G, p. 395

 

[Peter1000]

Your verse spamming doesn't help your cause. Our good works are not salvational.

Re-read some of them for the first time in you life.

I was impressed by one of the scriptures that started like this:
Pure religion and undefiled before God the Father is this: ?________________________?
Finish the middle part of this scripture.
Is it: praise God and trust Jesus?
Is it: Jesus did all that is needed?
Is it: Grace saves you, not works?
Is it: Just believe?

What is pure religion, and undefiled before God the Father

 

[He is the way]

We know what the Bible teaches and your posts are redundant.

How many times do we have to repeat 2 Timothy 3:15 -17? It is written to the people of God, not to unbelievers.
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

You talk about earning the right to have our names in the book of life. We can't earn that right. We can't pay for God's gift to us! If we could we would be purchasing eternal life by our own works.

The GIFT of God is eternal life paid for by the blood of Christ.

How many times have I said that we are not saved by works, neither are we saved without works? The righteous are saved by grace, the unrighteous are not:

(New Testament | 1 Peter 4:12 - 19)

12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

It seems to me that there are many people who do not understand the scriptures or else they would understand the importance of keeping the commandments and doing the works necessary for salvation.

 

[BigDaddy4]

and you're the devil's cabana boy"

 

[He is the way]

Mormons are required to work for eternal life.



View attachment 265026
"The Law of God" refers to Mormonism.

Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Entichment G, p. 395

Not only members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints, but every person on earth:

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

 

[BigDaddy4]

Re-read some of them for the first time in you life.

Well that's rather rude.

I was impressed by one of the scriptures that started like this:
Pure religion and undefiled before God the Father is this: ?________________________?
Finish the middle part of this scripture.
Is it: praise God and trust Jesus?
Is it: Jesus did all that is needed?
Is it: Grace saves you, not works?
Is it: Just believe?

What is pure religion, and undefiled before God the Father

How about this - how do you get to "religion" in the first place? You put the cart before the horse.

 

[BigDaddy4]

As I have said many times, we are not saved by works, neither are we saved without them. It is by grace that we are saved after all that we can do.

You can't even get your own religion right. It teaches the works you must do to be saved (i.e., "keeping the commandments") to the "highest kingdom". There's 2 false concepts right there.

 

[He is the way]

You can't even get your own religion right. It teaches the works you must do to be saved (i.e., "keeping the commandments") to the "highest kingdom". There's 2 false concepts right there.

Do you believe in eternal life? Jesus Made it clear that a person must keep the commandments to inherit eternal life.

 

[Rescued One]

How many times have I said that we are not saved by works, neither are we saved without works? The righteous are saved by grace, the unrighteous are not:

The only righteousness a believer has is what is given to us by God.

It seems to me that there are many people who do not understand the scriptures or else they would understand the importance of keeping the commandments and doing the works necessary for salvation.

Many works righteousness people think they must keep the commandments to be considered righteous. Keeping the commandments is to bring glory to God not ourselves!

Good works are certainly important, but not to earn a bit of our salvation:

Matthew 5
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and
glorify your Father which is in heaven.

John 3
30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

The purpose of good works is not to bring glory or salvation to man. It is to bring glory to God for the work He accomplishes in the believer.

God redeems us from iniquity so that we might be zealous of good works.

 

[Rescued One]

Do you believe in eternal life? Jesus Made it clear that a person must keep the commandments to inherit eternal life.

The gift of God is eternal life! Without that gift we remain separated from Him!

 

[Rescued One]

Not only members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints, but every person on earth:

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

They don't obey because they haven't become Christians.

 

[dzheremi]

Being constantly reminded to "keep the commandments" by people who wouldn't know a commandment from a Pop Tart does nothing but distort the message that I have to assume our Mormon friends are intending to convey. It'd be like if I constantly posted clips from that horrible "Godmakers" video followed by a reminder to our Mormon friends to go to their temples regularly.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Do you believe in eternal life? Jesus Made it clear that a person must keep the commandments to inherit eternal life.

Eternal life is a free gift from God. We cannot earn it. How much do you have to do to satisfy the "after all we can do" part of your theology? Can you quantify that?

 

[Peter1000]

Mormons are required to work for eternal life.



View attachment 265026
"The Law of God" refers to Mormonism.

Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Entichment G, p. 395

There is some common sense that you must use when talking about salvation. You want us to believe that the bible says, believe, and the instant you believe it is all over except for the crowning glory in eternal life. Jesus has done everything and the second you believe in Jesus you are in.

A more common sense biblical reading creates a partnership between Jesus and you. We believe, but because we believe we do the same kinds of works that he did, and he sees this believe and faith and that we are following him and grace is given. For instance, here is the scripture that bridges the 2 belief systems.
John 14:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Here Jesus is telling us his common sense approach to salvation: If you believe in me, and the works that I do, you too will do these same works, and even greater works than these will you do because I go to the Father.

Jesus expects that if you believe him, you will do greater works than he did. If you don't,.........

The salvation process is divided into at least 2 sections:
1) believing and trusting and grace
2) following and doing the same works that Jesus did

Would you not agree with me that as a new person in Jesus you would like to act just like him and do the same kinds of things that Jesus did. You would visit the widow and orphan, feed the hungry, cloth the naked, visit those in prison etc., etc., etc. or live the Law Of Christ (Galatians 6:2).

If you think you can be saved by doing good works, you are mistaken. But if you think you can be saved without doing good works, you are mistaken too. The scriptures are clear.

As Jesus says if you believe in me, you will do the works that I did, even great works than these shall you do. And I will add, if you do not believe in Jesus you will not do these good works.
and you will not be saved in his kingdom

The Church of Jesus Christ has the perfect formula: You believe, and you trust in the grace of God to save you after all that you can do to help Jesus.

This simple formula covers all of the scriptures in the NT that speaks on being saved.

 

[Peter1000]

Eternal life is a free gift from God. We cannot earn it. How much do you have to do to satisfy the "after all we can do" part of your theology? Can you quantify that?

Very difficult to quantify. In fact that is where the legalism comes in. The Jews literally tried to quantify the commandments, and from that there began to be a feeling that if you could do the quantified commandments you would be saved. The spirit of the commandment was gutted for a legalistic approach.

So no, it is very difficult to quantify. It is more of an attitude of service, than a number. It is the spirit of the law, not the details of the law.

Try to quantify Galatians 6:2? You cannot, and if you can, you have way overshot the spirit of the law of Christ.
Galatians 6:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

This bearing one anothers burdens manifests itself this way:
Matthew 25:34-39 King James Version (KJV)
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

Notice the people involved in these kinds of activities that Jesus did, were invited to inherit the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world. So as important as it is to believe in Jesus, it is just as important to try to act like Jesus, and no you cannot quantify that activity.
God only knows your heart.

Not to end on a negative, but below vs 39 of the above scripture, Jesus tells us what happens to those that do not do the things that Jesus did. You do not want to be in that group of people.

So keep believing and do not be weary of doing good works and remember that it is by grace that we are saved after all that we can do, and God judgeth what "all" means to each individual, and he is merciful.

 

[He is the way]

The gift of God is eternal life! Without that gift we remain separated from Him!

Eternal life is a gift given to those who keep the commandments.

(New Testament | Luke 10:25 - 28)

25 ¶ And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

However, the wages of sin is death.

 

[He is the way]

The only righteousness a believer has is what is given to us by God.



Many works righteousness people think they must keep the commandments to be considered righteous. Keeping the commandments is to bring glory to God not ourselves!

Good works are certainly important, but not to earn a bit of our salvation:

Matthew 5
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and
glorify your Father which is in heaven.

John 3
30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

The purpose of good works is not to bring glory or salvation to man. It is to bring glory to God for the work He accomplishes in the believer.

God redeems us from iniquity so that we might be zealous of good works.

Yes it is important that we do glorify God through WORKS. In order to glorify God we will DO the WORKS. Those who do not LOVE Jesus Christ will NOT keep the commandments of LOVE. They will not help their neighbor or give to the poor.

(New Testament | Hebrews 12:12 - 15)

12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

Dead faith saves no one:

(New Testament | James 2:14)

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

The answer is NO.