LDS LDS Jesus Could Have Lost His Godhood

[mmksparbud]

You said: "Who knows and keeps all the commandments? Do you? Which Mormons will have treasure in heaven?"

That is not up to us to decide. Jesus will be the judge, not us.

NO---Without the say so of JS no one gets in---oh, yah--in this dispensation. Don't leave things said half-said.

 

[BigDaddy4]

He will have eternal life, but he wasn't perfect:

(New Testament | Matthew 19:20 - 22)

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

On what basis do you declare he will have eternal life?

 

[Rescued One]

You said: "Who knows and keeps all the commandments? Do you? Which Mormons will have treasure in heaven?"

That is not up to us to decide. Jesus will be the judge, not us.

The answer is: No Mormons give away all their wealth. And no one has kept all the Mormon commandments.

 

[Rescued One]

You said: "Who knows and keeps all the commandments? Do you? Which Mormons will have treasure in heaven?"

That is not up to us to decide. Jesus will be the judge, not us.

Who are Abraham's seed?

 

[BigDaddy4]

We need to endure to the end:

(New Testament | Mark 13:13)

13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

More dodging. So I take it that no, you can't quantify how much all you can do is. Can you quantify how much enduring one has to do?

 

[He is the way]

NO---Without the say so of JS no one gets in---oh, yah--in this dispensation. Don't leave things said half-said.

Along with all of those who overcome the world.

(New Testament | Revelation 3:21)

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

(New Testament | Matthew 19:28)

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

 

[Rescued One]

... Yes we should do all that we can to keep the commandments:

Therefore, you are responsible for keeping ALL the commandments.

 

[He is the way]

Who are Abraham's seed?

These are Abraham's seed:

"
The "seed of Abraham" are those who, through righteousness, inherit the blessings promised Abraham through the covenant he made with the Lord and who themselves are a promised blessing to Abraham (Gen. 12:1-5;13:16;17; Abr. 2:6-11). The phrase also has messianic overtones: Abraham saw the days of the Messiah and rejoiced (John 8:56). Jesus Christ is of the seed of Abraham (Gal. 3:16).

In a lineal sense, two groups are called the "seed of Abraham" in scripture. The first comprises the literal descendants of Abraham through Isaac (Gen. 26:1-4) and Jacob (Gen. 28;35:9-13), who are thus the Twelve tribes of Israel. The second comprises the descendants of Ishmael and the many other children of Abraham.

In addition to those who are of lineal descent, all who are not of Abrahamic lineage but who become adopted by their acceptance of the gospel of Jesus Christ and continued obedience to God's commandments are heirs of all the blessings of the Abrahamic Covenant (TPJS, pp. 149-50). Adoption is completed by the gospel ordinances, including baptism and confirmation; ordination to the priesthood, and magnifying one's calling in the priesthood; the temple Endowment; and eternal marriage, through which husbands, wives, and families share "all the blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob." Modern revelation assures that these people will have a fulness of blessings, even "all that [the] Father hath" (D&C 84:38). They are "sanctified by the Spirit unto the renewing of their bodies," and they become "the seed of Abraham" (D&C 84:34). [See also Abrahamic Covenant; Gospel of Abraham.] ALLEN C. OSTERGAR, JR."

From: Seed of Abraham - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism

 

[mmksparbud]

Along with all of those who overcome the world.

(New Testament | Revelation 3:21)

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

(New Testament | Matthew 19:28)

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

The apostles are mentioned, not a word about JS judging anyone. And, as has been stated many times, when Jesus comes back --He comes for the saved. So the decision as to who is lost or saved will have already been made.

Rev_22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

All the saved have been judged---so no saved human or any angel that already sided with Jesus, is going to be judged. Only leaves the wicked---and it has already been decided that they are lost. That only leaves for everyone to acknowledge that the judgment of God is just. JS has no say so about anyone in any dispensation---Jesus does that, is doing that now as our High Priest. When He is done, He will say it is done and everyone will have made their final choice. That is why Jesus says---

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

There is no 2nd chance--no changing of the mind.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

 

[He is the way]

More dodging. So I take it that no, you can't quantify how much all you can do is. Can you quantify how much enduring one has to do?

I already quoted the answer from the Bible. Some people may not believe what the Bible says about enduring to the end to be saved, but I do.

 

[Rescued One]

He is the way said, "In addition to those who are of lineal descent, all who are not of Abrahamic lineage but who become adopted by their acceptance of the gospel of Jesus Christ and continued obedience to God's commandments are heirs of all the blessings of the Abrahamic Covenant (TPJS, pp. 149-50). Adoption is completed by the gospel ordinances, including baptism and confirmation; ordination to the priesthood, and magnifying one's calling in the priesthood; the temple Endowment; and eternal marriage, through which husbands, wives, and families share 'all the blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.' Modern revelation assures that these people will have a fulness of blessings, even 'all that [the] Father hath' (D&C 84:38). They are 'sanctified by the Spirit unto the renewing of their bodies,' and they become 'the seed of Abraham' (D&C 84:34). "[See also Abrahamic Covenant; Gospel of Abraham.] ALLEN C. OSTERGAR, JR."

Thank you for sharing the Mormon view!

The Bible says:

Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[He is the way]

Therefore, you are responsible for keeping ALL the commandments.

We are ALL responsible for keeping these two commandments of LOVE:

(New Testament | Matthew 22:36 - 40)

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[Rescued One]

I already quoted the answer from the Bible. Some people may not believe what the Bible says about enduring to the end to be saved, but I do.

John 10
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

 

[He is the way]

The apostles are mentioned, not a word about JS judging anyone. And, as has been stated many times, when Jesus comes back --He comes for the saved. So the decision as to who is lost or saved will have already been made.

Rev_22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

All the saved have been judged---so no saved human or any angel that already sided with Jesus, is going to be judged. Only leaves the wicked---and it has already been decided that they are lost. That only leaves for everyone to acknowledge that the judgment of God is just. JS has no say so about anyone in any dispensation---Jesus does that, is doing that now as our High Priest. When He is done, He will say it is done and everyone will have made their final choice. That is why Jesus says---

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

There is no 2nd chance--no changing of the mind.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

You said: "so no saved human or any angel that already sided with Jesus, is going to be judged."

Not what the Bible says:
(New Testament | Hebrews 12:23)

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 3:17)

17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:14)

14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

(New Testament | Romans 14:10)

10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 5:10)

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

[twin.spin]

We are ALL responsible for keeping these two commandments of LOVE:

(New Testament | Matthew 22:36 - 40)

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

This question from the Pharisees occurred shortly after Jesus spoke against them in the Parable of the Wedding Banquet Matthew 22:1-14.

So the motive in asking Jesus about the greatest commandment in the law was:

Matthew 22:15 KJV
Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.​

Jesus' point in his reply was to show the utter hopelessness what it takes that the law requires, nothing less than "all thy heart \ soul \ mind" … aka 100% "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.".

 

[mmksparbud]

You said: "so no saved human or any angel that already sided with Jesus, is going to be judged."

Not what the Bible says:
(New Testament | Hebrews 12:23)

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 3:17)

17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:14)

14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

(New Testament | Romans 14:10)

10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 5:10)

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

LOL!!! You say "not what the bible says" then go on to quote bible verses that say exactly that!!


New Testament | Hebrews 12:23)

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 3:17)

17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:14)

14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

(New Testament | Romans 14:10)

10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Seriously??? Do you not read your own posts???

Joh_5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Joh_8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
Joh 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

But Jesus does all as the Father would for they are one.

It was the High Priest, through the blood of the slain Lamb that forgave sins. So it still is---Jesus is our High Priest now. And it is His own blood that He uses to cleanse us from sin and it is that blood that forgives us. We just have to accept it. If you do not, you have no forgivness.

 

[He is the way]

John 10
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Who are Christ's sheep?

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:9)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

 

[He is the way]

This question from the Pharisees occurred shortly after Jesus spoke against them in the Parable of the Wedding Banquet Matthew 22:1-14.

So the motive in asking Jesus about the greatest commandment in the law was:

Matthew 22:15 KJV
Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.​

Jesus' point in his reply was to show the utter hopelessness what it takes that the law requires, nothing less than "all thy heart \ soul \ mind" … aka 100% "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.".

Yes He does want us to be perfect, and He also wanted the young man to be perfect, but that is not what He said is necessary to attain eternal life. He said:

(New Testament | Luke 10:25 - 28)

25 ¶ And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

That is the requirement.

 

[He is the way]

LOL!!! You say "not what the bible says" then go on to quote bible verses that say exactly that!!


New Testament | Hebrews 12:23)

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 3:17)

17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:14)

14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

(New Testament | Romans 14:10)

10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Seriously??? Do you not read your own posts???

Joh_5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Joh_8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
Joh 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

But Jesus does all as the Father would for they are one.

It was the High Priest, through the blood of the slain Lamb that forgave sins. So it still is---Jesus is our High Priest now. And it is His own blood that He uses to cleanse us from sin and it is that blood that forgives us. We just have to accept it. If you do not, you have no forgivness.

You said: "so no saved human or any angel that already sided with Jesus, is going to be judged."

Yes they will be judged, ALL will be judged.

 

[mmksparbud]

You said: "so no saved human or any angel that already sided with Jesus, is going to be judged."

Yes they will be judged, ALL will be judged.

The angels that stayed with God have no need of being judged, they already made their decision or they would not be in heaven for no sinner can live in the presence of God. When Jesus comes back He comes only for the saved, the wicked have to wait to be judged until after the 1000 years. Only the saved can be in the presence of God and live.

Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Yes, all are judged, but the saved will already have been judged when Jesus comes and His reward is with Him and they live with Him for 1000 years. The wicked are judged, punished ( they've already made their decision to be against God) after the 1000 years.