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Featured LDS LDS Jesus Could Have Lost His Godhood

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Phoebe Ann, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    That isn't our Jesus! :imp:It's a shocking statement made on Christian Forums. :eek:
     
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  2. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    Yes, that is no surprise, that LDS idea bridges the gap between man and god allowing Mormon folks to embrace the idea that they could be a god someday. It brings Jesus down to a human level of having the possibility of making mistakes.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
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  3. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    I would imagine that they would quote the passages where Jesus was tempted by Satan. Seeing that as a possibility of god failure. Not understanding that Jesus was perfect from the beginning.
     
  4. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    "Be careful in presenting this material that you don’t bring God down to man’s level. Our objective is to perfect ourselves and raise our level to his exalted place."
    Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, Copyright 1984, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 158
     
  5. Matthew ten Verseight

    Matthew ten Verseight Messenger with a Message from Jesus

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    Um, Jesus was fully human, and capable of sinning (though he didn't). Otherwise, what you teach is the Roman Catholic doctrine of impeccability.
     
  6. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    I'm Catholic. Let's face it, Jesus was created by the Holy Spirit of God, he is God, Jesus walked on water, calmed the seas, multiplied food, raised the dead, healed people cursed from birth, and finally resurrected himself after dying on the cross. He visited spirit prison and taught the lost souls. Fully human? Or always a God. Not to mention he never sinned! John 10:18 What human can do that?

    Impeccability appears to be a Christian teaching also: Impeccability - Wikipedia
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  7. Ironhold

    Ironhold Member

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    1. How about linking to the item in question for new readers?

    2. How about recognizing the fact that the statement in question was a rhetorical point?
     
  8. Ignatius the Kiwi

    Ignatius the Kiwi Newbie

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    So what prompts this idea as an LDS? Can God lose his divinity in Mormonism? I mean, it doesn't seem logically impossible but is this a Mormon idea?

    Seems to me Mormons cannot be sure about the status of Christ's divinity because they are unsure as to whether or not he was married and one's status depends on that.
     
  9. saved24

    saved24 Forgiven Supporter

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    Thank you for sharing.
    Yes, how could Jesus lose His Godhead? He could not for He is God. The Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, 3 persons one God. Amen.
    Jesus said: "I and my Father are one." John 10:30
    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me . John 14:6
    I am praying for 2 Mormon families online (youtube) , that they would find Jesus.
     
  10. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    "We are precisely in the same condition and under the same circumstances that God our heavenly Father was when he was passing through this, or a similar ordeal."
    President Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, p. 64
    (And, yes, I own this book.)
     
  11. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    They base their faith on what they've been taught. Many are descendants from ancestors who accepted it in the 19th century. They would be considered black sheep if they walked away from it. Their spouses might divorce them. Their parents, children, aunts, uncles, cousins would all be disappointed. They would get an excommunication letter, as I did, telling them to repent. From my perspective, my sin was apparently lack of faith in false doctrine.

    Agency, aka free will, is so important in that belief system, that all through eternity, the gods still have free will.

    Humans and Gods all have the same beginning and are of the same species. Godhood is earned through obedience.
     
  12. Matthew ten Verseight

    Matthew ten Verseight Messenger with a Message from Jesus

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    I used to be, until God showed me in scripture the truth as it is in Jesus Christ.

    No man can understand the gospel if they think Jesus had not possibility of sinning and came in unfallen flesh (of which John the apostle wrote against in his epistles).

    Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
    Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
    Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

    Angels of God have unfallen flesh nature. Hebrews 2:16 is clear, as is the entire genealogical line.

    Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
     
  13. Matthew ten Verseight

    Matthew ten Verseight Messenger with a Message from Jesus

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    The entire article is "Catholic", including the so-called protestant section, for Original Sin is Roman Catholic and unscriptural also.

    Of course Jesus did not sin. That does not equate to not having the ability to choose between the Father and Himself.
     
  14. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    (New Testament | John 16:33)

    33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

    (New Testament | Luke 13:31 - 35)

    31 ¶ The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee.
    32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.
    33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.
    34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
    35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
     
  15. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    Well I understand things different. At minimum the male portion of Jesus' birthing process was supplied by God.

    Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

    So then who finds it not robbery to be equal with God? Jesus. And yes you can tempt God, we are commanded not to: Matthew 4:7

    Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

    Does that mean God might fall? I would say no. No one could kill Jesus: Physically or Spiritually for that matter: John 10:18 "No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

    If you couldn't kill Jesus then he wasn't fully human I would think. Then could he even die spiritual if he didn't want? While Jesus did take on Human form, he was always God: John 1:1 "1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

    Yes I agree your version of Jesus appears to be different than mine. Jesus was predestined to be the Christ and clearly given powers to fulfill that mission such as laying down his own life and taking it up again (resurrecting himself) which is part of the function of the Christ. He was created by God into the virgin Mary.

    If you believe that Jesus has always been God then there is a conflict with what your proposing. For it also says of God: James 1:13 "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man". So clearly yes you can try to tempt God but he cannot be tempted.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  16. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    Yes God can be tempted, Deuteronomy 6:16 "Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah."

    What does that prove, that Jesus was tested the same as man? Jesus was always God and was from the beginning, even before his birth on the earth.

    John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

    And if you believe Jesus was always God then this scripture applies: James 1:13 "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man"

    This says that Jesus can be tempted and also cannot fall into temptation of evil.

    So you believe Jesus or God himself wasn't perfect? I'll contemplate that idea. But honestly I think you need a different interpretation of what that scripture is saying. No one could kill Jesus and He had power to lay down his life and take it up again: John 10:18 "No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

    You couldn't even kill Jesus honestly is what he said. So how do you think Satan had power to kill him spiritually and cause him to sin? I think we have to take away from these scriptures that Jesus could only fall if he chose to fall. The concept of Jesus being tempted as man is tempted is not scriptural based in my opinion.

    Does the bible say Jesus was capable of failing or falling? You did quote that he overcame the world. Bodies overcome infections all the time, that doesn't mean the infection could kill the body. Especially when examining the verse where Jesus himself said no one could kill him and that he resurrected himself.

    All man sins, but not God Jesus: Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God". So then what is the glory of God, that he could have fell as man does but didn't and thus thinking of God as a human? Or is his glory beyond that concept? Is his glory that of a God who wouldn't fall because God gave him power not to fall? Something he didn't give to mankind? Similar to the power to lay down his life and take it up again, thus resurrecting himself? Keeping in mind that God doesn't give that power to mankind. God gave him power to overcome and be the Christ also? Something he didn't give to man as well?

    Jesus was predestined to be the Christ, and was clearly given powers to fulfill that mission, like laying down his life and resurrecting himself for the sacrifice, he was created by God with the Holy Spirit in the virgin Mary? 1 Peter 1:19 "...a lamb without blemish or defect."
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  17. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Yes all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, however it is important that Christ's glory had to be restored:

    (New Testament | John 17:5)

    5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

    While Jesus had the power to lay His body down and take it up again, He needed the Father to restore His glory. Jesus also said that the Father is His God:

    (New Testament | John 20:17)

    17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

    Jesus wants us to overcome sin:

    (New Testament | 1 John 5:3)

    3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
     
  18. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    You took that out of context and is not referring to Jesus being capable of sinning. In these passages it also describes Jesus glorifying the Father, so he had glory already: John 17:1-5

    17 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

    Yes that is correct. But not thru your own abilities, only thru the blood of Christ and the Holy Spirit of God.
     
  19. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Deuteronomy 4:35
    Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.
     
  20. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    Then who is the 2 other Persons beside him, even you believe in 3 Person in 1 God. Those Persons are supposed to be distinct from each other. So just how are they distinct?
     
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