Sola scriptura or ECF-like traditions of man? Christ in Mark 7

BobRyan

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So many new "just ECFs -- and NOT the Bible" threads recently turning from scripture and insisting that traditions of man are all that matters... 2 minutes ago #228

What did Christ say?

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Not saying that all ECF statements are errors of man - only that scripture is the "Gold standard" and not the other way around

Paul himself "tested" sola scriptura
Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were SO"


Real letters and documents: false teaching
Acts 20
28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore be on the alert,

False apostles and fake letters

Paul says "if WE (Apostles) or an ANGEL from heaven should come to you with a different gospel let him be accursed" Gal 1:6-9

That is not even possible if one is using the rule "it came from an apostle... it must be true"

2 Cor 11
12 But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

fake letters
2 Thess 2
Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us
======================================
see also
A moment ago #293


Notice - I believe in sola scriptura -- which means I predict that scripture alone will debunk any sort of error raised against it.

No wonder then that the scripture that does it - would be the focus and solution for complaints against the very practice we see in scripture.

It is like saying "here is the medicine that will cure that sickness" and then each time the sickness shows up -- "that same medicine" appears as the solution. Not all that surprising.
 
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Dave-W

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then see if they are found in the actual word of God, of which the Apostles and Jesus lived by.
That would be limited to the OT since the NT had not yet been completed; the gospel and letters of John and Revelation not even being written until they were all dead except John.
 
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So many new threads recently turning from scripture and insisting that traditions of man are all that matters...

What did Christ say?

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Not saying that all ECF statements are errors of man - only that scripture is the "Gold standard" and not the other way around

Paul himself "tested" sola scriptura
Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were SO"

Gal 1:6-9
"6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we (Apostles), or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!"

Acts 20
28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore be on the alert,
Sola Scriptura is a tradition of man.
 
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Albion

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Holy Scripture is part of Holy Tradition.
No it isn't. That's just something said in order to try to give some legitimacy to custom, legend, folklore, theological speculation, and etc.

And very little of it is actually traditional anyway--i.e. something that truly has been held throughout time.
 
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No it isn't. That's just something said in order to try to give some legitimacy to custom, legend, folklore, theological speculation, and etc.

And very little of it is actually traditional anyway--i.e. something that truly has been held throughout time.
You are just based your idea on a modernistic take of Church History (well, nit as Modernistic as Liberals believe).
 
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BobRyan

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So many new threads recently turning from scripture and insisting that traditions of man are all that matters...

What did Christ say?

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
Holy Scripture is part of Holy Tradition.

‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Not saying that all ECF statements are errors of man - only that scripture is the "Gold standard" and not the other way around

Paul himself "tested" sola scriptura
Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were SO"

Gal 1:6-9
"6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we (Apostles), or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!"

Acts 20
28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore be on the alert,

so then easy to see sola scriptura here -- Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were SO"

as well as those other texts

Sola Scriptura is a tradition of man.


I don't follow your logic given the text you responded to
===========================================
 
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so then easy to see sola scriptura here -- Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were SO"

as well as those other texts




I don't follow your logic given the text you responded to
Ah, you mean the Old Testament?
 
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BobRyan

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What did Christ say?

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”
Holy Scripture is part of Holy Tradition.

Is that what you see Christ saying in Mark 7???
 
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BobRyan

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so then easy to see sola scriptura here -- Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were SO"

Ah, you mean the Old Testament?

"All scripture given by inspiration from God AND to be used for doctrine" 2 Tim 3:16 said at a time when they had both NT writings and OT scripture - but certainly is primarily directed to the OT text as that was common to all and only a few of the NT texts were written at that time.

What is your point? That the NT is not scripture??
 
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BobRyan

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That would be limited to the OT since the NT had not yet been completed; the gospel and letters of John and Revelation not even being written until they were all dead except John.

True but the question is whether the term scripture in the NT is always limited to "just OT scripture". Peter seems to include Paul in that term in 2 Peter 3.

And we all accept both NT and OT as scripture today.
 
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Albion

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You are just based your idea on a modernistic take of Church History (well, nit as Modernistic as Liberals believe).
Sorry, no. Traditions, even real ones, owe their existence to some idea that is carried from person to person over time. Would you agree with that?

By comparison, the Bible was given by God to man. That is what anyone who says he believes the Bible must agree to since it is IN the Bible itself. It doesn't owe its validity to having been around for some length of time.

So the contents of the Bible did not grow out of any legends or customs like the claims about where Mary was supposedly buried or where the Holy Grail resides today or what vision some saint supposedly saw.
 
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"All scripture given by inspiration from God AND to be used for doctrine" 2 Tim 3:16 said at a time when they had both NT writings and OT scripture - but certainly is primarily directed to the OT text as that was common to all and only a few of the NT texts were written at that time.

What is your point? That the NT is not scripture??
Said to Timothy whom only had the Greek Old Testament.
 
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Sorry, no. Traditions, even real ones, owe their existence to some idea that is carried from person to person over time. Would you agree with that?

By comparison, the Bible was given by God to man. That is what anyone who says he believes the Bible must agree to since it is IN the Bible itself. It doesn't owe its validity to having been around for some length of time.

So the contents of the Bible did not grow out of any legends or customs like the claims about where Mary was supposedly buried or where the Holy Grail resides today or what vision some saint supposedly saw.
The Bible is not the Koran.
 
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BobRyan

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Holy Tradition is not "tradition of men".

In Mark 7 the teachers of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai were claiming they too taught "holy tradition".

That did not stop Christ in his hammering of that tradition "sola scriptura" in Mark 7
 
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BobRyan

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Said to Timothy whom only had the Greek Old Testament.

And your point ? We should no longer listen to the Apostle Paul? do you have any ECF arguing that we should ignore Paul in his 2 Tim 3:16 statement?
 
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