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Featured Sola scriptura or ECF-like traditions of man? Christ in Mark 7

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by BobRyan, Oct 8, 2019.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    So many new threads recently turning from scripture and insisting that traditions of man are all that matters... 2 minutes ago #228

    What did Christ say?

    Mark 7
    6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
    ‘This people honors Me with their lips,
    But their heart is far away from Me.
    7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
    Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
    8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
    9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

    Not saying that all ECF statements are errors of man - only that scripture is the "Gold standard" and not the other way around

    Paul himself "tested" sola scriptura
    Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were SO"


    Real letters and documents: false teaching
    Acts 20
    28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore be on the alert,

    False apostles and fake letters

    Paul says "if WE (Apostles) or an ANGEL from heaven should come to you with a different gospel let him be accursed" Gal 1:6-9

    That is not even possible if one is using the rule "it came from an apostle... it must be true"

    2 Cor 11
    12 But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

    fake letters
    2 Thess 2
    Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us
    ======================================

    Notice - I believe in sola scriptura -- which means I predict that scripture alone will debunk any sort of error raised against it.

    No wonder then that the scripture that does it - would be the focus and solution for complaints against the very practice we see in scripture.

    It is like saying "here is the medicine that will cure that sickness" and then each time the sickness shows up -- "that same medicine" appears as the solution. Not all that surprising.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019 at 6:53 AM
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  2. Crosstian

    Crosstian Baring The Cross

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    Waiting for Daniel Marsh to respond. Let's see a list of Daniel Marsh's doctrines, and then see if they are found in the actual word of God, of which the Apostles and Jesus lived by.
     
  3. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    That would be limited to the OT since the NT had not yet been completed; the gospel and letters of John and Revelation not even being written until they were all dead except John.
     
  4. Ignatius the Kiwi

    Ignatius the Kiwi Newbie

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    BobRyan, are there any theologians or writers that have influenced you? I'm guessing as a Seventh Day Adventist you must be acquainted with that Church's literature. Do you trust the deliberations of your Church?
     
  5. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    Sola Scriptura is a tradition of man.
     
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  6. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    How can the Bible be a tradition? It can't.
     
  7. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    Holy Scripture is part of Holy Tradition.
     
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  8. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    No it isn't. That's just something said in order to try to give some legitimacy to custom, legend, folklore, theological speculation, and etc.

    And very little of it is actually traditional anyway--i.e. something that truly has been held throughout time.
     
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  9. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    You are just based your idea on a modernistic take of Church History (well, nit as Modernistic as Liberals believe).
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    so then easy to see sola scriptura here -- Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were SO"

    as well as those other texts


    I don't follow your logic given the text you responded to
     
  11. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    Ah, you mean the Old Testament?
     
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  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Is that what you see Christ saying in Mark 7???
     
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    "All scripture given by inspiration from God AND to be used for doctrine" 2 Tim 3:16 said at a time when they had both NT writings and OT scripture - but certainly is primarily directed to the OT text as that was common to all and only a few of the NT texts were written at that time.

    What is your point? That the NT is not scripture??
     
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    True but the question is whether the term scripture in the NT is always limited to "just OT scripture". Peter seems to include Paul in that term in 2 Peter 3.

    And we all accept both NT and OT as scripture today.
     
  15. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Sorry, no. Traditions, even real ones, owe their existence to some idea that is carried from person to person over time. Would you agree with that?

    By comparison, the Bible was given by God to man. That is what anyone who says he believes the Bible must agree to since it is IN the Bible itself. It doesn't owe its validity to having been around for some length of time.

    So the contents of the Bible did not grow out of any legends or customs like the claims about where Mary was supposedly buried or where the Holy Grail resides today or what vision some saint supposedly saw.
     
  16. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    Holy Tradition is not "tradition of men".
     
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  17. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    Said to Timothy whom only had the Greek Old Testament.
     
  18. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    The Bible is not the Koran.
     
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  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    In Mark 7 the teachers of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai were claiming they too taught "holy tradition".

    That did not stop Christ in his hammering of that tradition "sola scriptura" in Mark 7
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    And your point ? We should no longer listen to the Apostle Paul? do you have any ECF arguing that we should ignore Paul in his 2 Tim 3:16 statement?
     
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