Who gets cast into the everlasting lake of fire?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

1 John 4

Love Comes from God

7Beloved, let us love one another, because love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

9This is how God’s love was revealed among us: God sent His one and only Son into the world, so that we might live through Him. 10And love consists in this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as the atoning sacrifice for our sins.

11Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God remains in us, and His love is perfected in us. 13By this we know that we remain in Him, and He in us: He has given us of His Spirit. 14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent His Son to be the Savior of the world.

15If anyone confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16And we have come to know and believe the love that God has for us. God is love; whoever abides in love abides in God, and God in him. 17In this way, love has been perfected among us, so that we may have confidence on the day of judgment; for in this world we are just like Him.

18There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. The one who fears has not been perfected in love. 19We love because He first loved us.

20If anyone says, “I love God,” but hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21And we have this commandment from Him: Whoever loves God must love his brother as well.

Yahuweh's Word Says the one who walks in darkness and who has no light, no truth, is destined for destruction - some already condemned today because of their unbelief.

To tell someone in darkness that they can stay there if they want to, and still be saved, is directly opposed to Everything God Says, and is dissing Jesus' Sacrifice and His Blood.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What's your point? God will be our judge and anyone else preaching different is wrong.

It is already time for Judgment to begin in the Ekklesia, and it has.

The point of the heresy is smooth flatteerie talk , buttery lips and sweet words, with a knife ready for the back. (bent on destruction for as many as they can drag down with them, unable to be otherwise, unless God grants repentance)

 

[eleos1954]

Yahuweh's Word Says the one who walks in darkness and who has no light, no truth, is destined for destruction - some already condemned today because of their unbelief.

To tell someone in darkness that they can stay there if they want to, and still be saved, is directly opposed to Everything God Says, and is dissing Jesus' Sacrifice and His Blood.

John 8:12

Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

We follow the Lamb in love.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

John 8:12

Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

We follow the Lamb in love.

Multitudes say that, and on Judgment Day, way too late to do anything about this,
what happens to "Many" ?

Matthew 7:23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you ...
Matthew 7:23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!'
A Tree and its Fruit … 22 Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'

23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!'

 

[BNR32FAN]

Dear BNR: The thelema of God our Father, whether in verb or adjective, is absolute. We little wills will ultimately bow to the Will of all wills!

“Millions choose evil; may they not always choose it? The reply is that this is the sinner’s will arrayed in battle against the Divine will. One must ultimately yield. I expect it will not be God. God will not coerce the sinner’s will by force. He faces it as a consuming fire, and the day comes when the sinner sinks down beaten and cries out: ‘God I yield.’ Terrible is God against sin, foolish the soul that contests against Him…the sinner is one who has courage to enter a contest of his will against God’s will. My orthodox friends tremble for God. I do not. I exhort them to 'have faith in God.” -P.T. Barnum-

The epitheumia of His longing & craving & desire will also come to His complete satisfaction.

Every last digit!

“The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born."”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:24‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Why would it be good for this man if he had never been born if he will ultimately reside in heaven with Our Lord? Is not the temporal suffering worth the eternal prize?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

“The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born."”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:24‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Why would it be good for this man if he had never been born if he will ultimately reside in heaven with Our Lord? Is not the temporal suffering worth the eternal prize?

The false heretical gospel promoters thrive on questions like this. It's like feeding a stray cat for a week,...... now it won't go away....

 

[BCsenior]

We are saved by the work that Jesus performed on the cross,
as we see from all of scripture, this was a sin offering. It covers our sin.

Is your sin covered, if you live as a slave to sin like some believers choose to live?

People don't comment on my signature, so I won't ask you to either.

But, how about these verses? ... Don't they apply to you and I? ...

● “Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey?
You can be a slave to sin, which leads to (eternal) death, or you can choose
to obey God, which leads to righteous living … Now you must give yourselves to
be slaves to righteous living so that you will become holy.” (Romans 6:16-19, NLT)
● "... for those who are not holy will not see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14, NLT)

 

[BNR32FAN]

The false heretical gospel promoters thrive on questions like this. It's like feeding a stray cat for a week,...... now it won't go away....

I’m interested in hearing his explanation for this verse. If at any time the person mentioned (Judas) enters heaven even after suffering then it would not be good if he had never been born because he would still receive eternal life in paradise. So if punishment of unbelievers is temporary it’s still worth enduring to enter eternal life in paradise with Our Lord.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I’m interested in hearing his explanation for this verse. If at any time the person mentioned (Judas) enters heaven even after suffering then it would not be good if he had never been born because he would still receive eternal life in paradise. So if punishment of unbelievers is temporary it’s still worth enduring to enter eternal life in paradise with Our Lord.

When not resting in the Father , when not completely trusting in the Father,
when looking to any man for "explanation" , especially of a heresy,
when(if) trusting any flesh,
Yahuweh not only says not to do that, but says He curses those who trust in man/ flesh/ heresy.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

(and more woe to any who cause little ones to depart from the truth with a heretical 'explanation' )

 

[devin553344]

Is your sin covered, if you live as a slave to sin like some believers choose to live?

People don't comment on my signature, so I won't ask you to either.

But, how about these verses? ... Don't they apply to you and I? ...

● “Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey?
You can be a slave to sin, which leads to (eternal) death, or you can choose
to obey God, which leads to righteous living … Now you must give yourselves to
be slaves to righteous living so that you will become holy.” (Romans 6:16-19, NLT)
● "... for those who are not holy will not see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14, NLT)

Everyones a slave to food. And that's not sin?

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Is your sin covered, if you live as a slave to sin like some believers choose to live?

People don't comment on my signature, so I won't ask you to either.

But, how about these verses? ... Don't they apply to you and I? ...

● “Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey?
You can be a slave to sin, which leads to (eternal) death, or you can choose
to obey God, which leads to righteous living … Now you must give yourselves to
be slaves to righteous living so that you will become holy.” (Romans 6:16-19, NLT)
● "... for those who are not holy will not see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14, NLT)

I am not sinning if that is what you suggest. But I also don't trust in that as Paul said, "he knew of no know sin, yet put his trust in the cross".

 

[FineLinen]

The 2nd Death

“Orthodox theology holds the second death to be a state of endless torment in which the sufferers are held forever in conscious being by a continuous act of Divine preservation, with the soul object of a punishment without end. This however would in no sense be death. The second death does not perpetuate the hopeless condition of the sinner to all eternity.

What the Holy Spirit means by ‘fire and brimstone’ is ‘divine purification,’ or a judgment fire which consumes all that is antagonistic to divine law and love.

Before the Great White Throne, that vast throng, their naked spirits conscious now of the blazing holiness of God, will be subjected to the process of the second death. What those processes are, their intensity and their duration, we are not told. They will suffice, however, not in themselves to perfect, but to bring those who suffer them to that agreement with the judgment upon sin which they effect, and through the cross finally to reconcile them to God (Col. 1:20), in a subjection where He will be ‘All in all.’ When that acquiescence in judgment upon sin is reached, and applied in soul and spirit, then will be possible the final victory over death. Hence it is written that when this subjection is reached, then and only then, ‘the last enemy, death, shall be destroyed.’ ” -A. E. Saxby

The Lake Of Fire & Divinity

Brimstone= theion

Root of theion= Theos

Theion= the breath of Jehovah/ Theos

The Lake of Divine Fire

 

[FineLinen]

The koine theion is the incense of Jehovah and is rooted in theioo which is Theos. The Lake of Fire is the incense of Jehovah rooted firmly in Theos. Make zero mistake: our God is consuming fire; the Limne of Theos is consuming fire in which every last element of sin and iniquity is consumed: every last rotten bit!

The association of fire with purification in both old and new covenants is easily traceable. In the old testament the prophetic analogy of silver being purified by fire is classically representative of the purification theme of the Bible.

St. Paul, gets to the heart of the matter when he writes about every man’s work being tried by fire, yet the man, himself, being saved. St. John, makes it a point to call the Lake of pur the Lake of Fire, but also of brimstone, which is an old word for sulfur. With sulfur being a common agent of ceremonial purification in temples of worship in ancient times.

Destruction or purification?

Neither scripture nor science recognizes the destruction of anything in the sense of annihilation, that is, of anything being reduced to a state of absolute nothingness. Destruction does not render anything nonexistent, but rather incapable of carrying out its function, as in the destruction of a tank in warfare. The mass of metal is still there, but it can’t function as a tank any longer.

Even if you were to vaporize the tank completely, yet, it’s intrinsic elements would still exist in other forms. Contrary to conventional theology, all things were not created from nothing, and none of the things that have been created will ever face nonexistence, and by that I mean nonexistence in any form. All created things are subject to change, change in form, but not subject to losing their intrinsic existence.

So, what we have in the process of purification by fire is, first, a separation of the object of purification from all that defiles it, all that is foreign to it’s intrinsic constitution, and then the removal of the corrupting element.

 

[BNR32FAN]

When not resting in the Father , when not completely trusting in the Father,
when looking to any man for "explanation" , especially of a heresy,
when(if) trusting any flesh,
Yahuweh not only says not to do that, but says He curses those who trust in man/ flesh/ heresy.

I think you may misunderstand my position here. My intention is to produce evidence refuting universalism. The only way that it would be better for Judas that he had never been born is if he would face eternal punishment in the lake of fire. If his suffering were temporary and he would eventually enter heaven then it would not have been better if he had not been born because the temporal suffering would still be worth enduring in order to receive eternal life in paradise.

 

[FineLinen]

I think you may misunderstand my position here. My intention is to produce evidence refuting universalism.

Dear BNR: You have a serious amount of refuting to do from Scripture and the remarkable individuals who have grasped the Restitution!

For the moment, however, your task at hand is to proclaim why Abba loses the vast segments of His creation to unending dismay and torture.

“Millions choose evil; may they not always choose it? The reply is that this is the sinner’s will arrayed in battle against the Divine will. One must ultimately yield. I expect it will not be God. God will not coerce the sinner’s will by force. He faces it as a consuming fire, and the day comes when the sinner sinks down beaten and cries out: ‘God I yield.’ Terrible is God against sin, foolish the soul that contests against Him…the sinner is one who has courage to enter a contest of his will against God’s will. My orthodox friends tremble for God. I do not. I exhort them to 'have faith in God.” -P.T. Barnum-

 

[FineLinen]

The way for all is through the fires, for fire is the great uniter and reconciler of all things; and things which without fire can never be united, in and through the fire are changed and become one.

Therefore every coming of Christ, even in grace, is a day of judgment. Therefore there are fires even for the elect both now, (1 Pet. 1:7, and 4: 12) and in the coming day; (1 Cor. 3:. 13, 15.) for “our God is a consuming fire;” (Heb. 12: 29.) and to dwell in Him we must have a life, which, because it is of the fire, for fire burns not fire, can stand unhurt in it.

Therefore our Lord “came to cast fire into the earth,” and desired nothing more than “that it should be already kindled;” (S. Luke 12: 49) therefore He says,

Mark 9: 49

For this is the very “baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire,” (Matt. 3: 11) that “spirit of judgment and burning,” promised by the prophet, "with which the Lord shall purge away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and cleanse the blood of Jerusalem; after which He will create on every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and on all her assemblies, a cloud of smoke by day, and the brightness of flame of fire by night; and upon all, the glory shall be a defense; (Isa. 4: 4, 5) for “He is like a refiner’s fire, and like a fuller’s soap; and He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and He shall purify the sons of Levi as gold and silver are purged, that they may offer to the Lord an offering of righteousness.” (Mal. 3: 3). And as by the hidden fire of this present life, shut up in these bodies of corruption, we are able by the wondrous chemistry of nature through corruption to change the fruits and flesh of the earth into our blood, and from blood again into our flesh and bone and sinew; so by the fire of God can we be changed, and made partakers of Christ’s flesh and blood. In and through Christ we have received this transmutation; (Rom. 5: 11) and through His Spirit, which is fire, is this same change accomplished in us.

NOTE:

Numbers 28: 6. By this double sense a veil covers the letter, veiling yet revealing God’s purpose; for His purpose to the creature is through destruction to perfect it, and by fire to make it a bride unto the Lord. For a kindred reason some of the angels are called Seraphim, that is burning ones; for like the Lord, whose throne is flames of fire, (Dan. 7: 9,10.) they also are as fire; as it is written, “He makes His angels spirits, His messengers a flame of fire.” (Heb. 1: 7, and Psalm 104:4)

And as with the first-fruits, so with the harvest. The world to be saved must some day know the same baptism. For “the Lord will come with fire,” and “by fire and by His sword will He plead with all flesh, and the slain of the Lord shall be many.” (Isa. 66: 15, 16.) The promised baptism or outpouring of the Spirit must be judgment, for the Spirit cannot be poured on man without consuming this flesh to quicken a better life;

NOTE:

James 1: 20) works both righteousness and life, and is set forth in that “warfare of the service of the tabernacle” (See Numbers 4: 23, 30, and 8: 24, 25; margin: and compare 1 Tim. 1: eighteen) by which that which was of the earth was made to ascend to God through fire a sweet sacrifice. -Andrew Jukes-

 

[BNR32FAN]

Dear BNR: You have a serious amount of refuting to do from Scripture and the remarkable individuals who have grasped the Restitution!

For the moment, however, your task at hand is to proclaim why Abba loses the vast segments of His creation to unending dismay and torture.

“Millions choose evil; may they not always choose it? The reply is that this is the sinner’s will arrayed in battle against the Divine will. One must ultimately yield. I expect it will not be God. God will not coerce the sinner’s will by force. He faces it as a consuming fire, and the day comes when the sinner sinks down beaten and cries out: ‘God I yield.’ Terrible is God against sin, foolish the soul that contests against Him…the sinner is one who has courage to enter a contest of his will against God’s will. My orthodox friends tremble for God. I do not. I exhort them to 'have faith in God.” -P.T. Barnum-

Dodged it? I figured it would either be dodge the question or twist the context.

 

[FineLinen]

Dodged it? I figured it would either be dodge the question or twist the context.

Dear BNR: What is the O.P.?

The context of this discourse is God relentlessly torturing His beloved creation for ever and ever and ever ad nauseum, with additional ad nauseum as the goal.

This, in a nutshell, is that will: that everything handed over to me by the Father be completed - not a single detail missed - and at the wrap-up of time I have everything and everyone put together, upright and whole.”

“Every person the Father gives me eventually comes running to me. And once that person is with me, I hold on and don’t let go.”

 

[BNR32FAN]

Every person the Father gives me eventually comes running to me. And once that person is with me, I hold on and don’t let go.”

Where is this in scripture? I’m guessing this is a misunderstanding of John 6:37-40? Is that correct?