Before I formed you in the womb I knew you

yeshuaslavejeff

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So God either:

A. Doesn't create people who will reject him? Or
B. He doesn't send anyone to hell?
Clarify please. i.e. since God created humans who mostly reject Him, and most are on the wide road to destruction.... He created angels too, and what, about one third of the angels rebelled and are destined for destruction ?


Also note: do people have children today who leave them, reject them, sometime in life ? Did the parents want that to happen ? Even though no, could they stop it from happening , legally and morally ?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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"Your eyes saw my unformed body; all my days were written in Your book and ordained for me before one of them came to be.
As Yahuweh Scheduled all of our days before we were even conceived in the womb,
even before He Created the Universe and everything in it, He had A Perfect Plan for each man.

Men usually mess up though, and do not find out.
 
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Jipsah

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God does not force his blessing or His call on anyone.
I hear that said a lot, but it does appear that God had to do a fair bit of arm-twisting to get some folks to voluntarily accept his call. Things like being hove into the ocean and swallowed by a fish, or knocked down in the road and struck blind, or having an angel waiting in the road with a sword to slice you into sushi. Maybe that doesn't constitute "force" when God does it, but it still doesn't strike me as gentle persuasion.
 
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joshua 1 9

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5 “See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes.
The day of destruction did not really come until the temple was destroyed in 70 ad. The Church age began in 29 ad. So they had a warning for around 40 years.
 
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Jipsah

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The prophets of old trained to be prophets.
Howzat work? A prophet is one who delivers a message that God has given them to deliver. They're God's spokemen, who have the right to declare "Thus saith the Lord God". How do you train for that? Grammar and elocution?
 
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joshua 1 9

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Francis Drake

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We exist before bodies are created....therefore, the removal of one body, or one's choice not to have children is of no consequence(for those other than the ones committing the act).
Mythology!
There is no reason to believe that when God knows us....he picks a specific woman for us to be born to, and if that woman decides that she doesnt want children, or aborts, God says "Oh well, I tried......Go into heaven instead" THis is ludicrous to me....the idea that the One who knows all, and knows us before we are even a thought, physically , can be surprised, or have His plan changed by an act of Man.
So God, who already knew Hitler, (?) placed his pre existent soul in the waiting fetus in mother Hitler's womb.
I don't think so.
There are souls waiting for bodies....and God knows them all.......They will wait until a body is ready for them......and they will, all of them, get bodies no matter how many bodies are destroyed or how many men refuse to father child.
Sorry, but this has no biblical basis.
For God is the author and giver of life, and this power cannot be taken from Him.
I've seen it stated many times that humans pre-exist our bodies, but the idea owes more to paganism than scripture, where no such idea is found.

Take a look at Adam.
God breathed into Adam, and he became a living soul.
Then God took a part of Adam's body and moulded Eve out of it.

However, when you read the account, there is no record of God breathing into Eve, so how did Eve become a living soul?

The answer is quite simple, not only did God divide Adam's body, but God must also have divided Adam's spirit, and gave part to Eve.
There is no evidence anywhere that God already had Eve's human spirit, patiently waiting in heaven, ready to slot into Eve's body.

We know from observation, (and these days from accurate DNA science,) that an adult son/daughter inherits physical characteristics of both Mother and Father.

We also know that an adult son/daughter inherits mental and emotional characteristics from mother and father. ie. Music, mechanical ability, art languages, etc.

Some might claim that these come through upbringing, but when children for some reason are raised completely separated from parents, these characteristics still appear. ie. These things come from the splitting and melding of DNA from both parents.

If the physical body comes via our two parents, its entirely reasonable to assume our spiritual body comes via our two parents.

It is therefore safe to say that my spirit did not exist till my father's sperm entered my mother's egg.
At that moment in time, my body was set in motion, and my spirit was set in motion.
And as David says, God knits it all together.

 
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Francis Drake

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I hear that said a lot, but it does appear that God had to do a fair bit of arm-twisting to get some folks to voluntarily accept his call. Things like being hove into the ocean and swallowed by a fish, or knocked down in the road and struck blind, or having an angel waiting in the road with a sword to slice you into sushi. Maybe that doesn't constitute "force" when God does it, but it still doesn't strike me as gentle persuasion.
Just as today, the prophets of old were God's sons, people who had agreed to serve him.
As such, what was demanded of them was greater than demanded of ordinary people.
And if they refused, chastisement was in store, as Jonah found out.

That's also why Paul says not to be many teachers, for therewith we receive the greater judgement!
To those whom is given much, much is required.
 
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joshua 1 9

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I'm responsible for my rebellion, but God was guiding me into English teaching to prepare me for writing.
If people use their gifts to honor God or not, they do seem to enjoy to use their gifts. Even pastors will try to call attention to themselves rather then to bring praise, honor and glory to God. "Woe to you Pharisees, because you love the most important seats in the synagogues and respectful greetings in the marketplaces." (Luke 11:43)
 
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joshua 1 9

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So God, who already knew Hitler, (?) placed his pre existent soul in the waiting fetus in mother Hitler's womb.
I don't think so.
Everyone is suppose to have a choice. God is not willing that any should perish. Today we have Sackler to deal with. He has killed hundreds of thousands of people and no one seem interested in putting him in jail or doing something to stop him. When you look at the harm that people like Sackler and Hitler has done, it makes you wonder how they could harm so many people when the normal person does almost nothing to harm anyone.

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joshua 1 9

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I've seen it stated many times that humans pre-exist our bodies, but the idea owes more to paganism than scripture, where no such idea is found.
We read about names written in the book of life at the foundation of the world. This is the sort of stuff we may not understand until we get to Heaven. Although I think it is possible to understand some of that now. "And all who dwell on the earth will worship the beast— all whose names have not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain" (Rev 13:8)

Some people think that every name is written in the Book of life but some people have their name blotted out of the book: "May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous" (psalm69:28)

That's also why Paul says not to be many teachers, for therewith we receive the greater judgement!
Different from a prophet though, because a teacher is called to live their life as an example for others. Prophets are judged more on the words they speak then the life they live. Although as a general rule I think that only a remnant 10% of the people actually represent God, because of the standard He sets. Many are called but few are chosen. Few of us are willing to live the life of holiness and sanctification that God requires of those who serve Him.
 
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joshua 1 9

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No more ludicrous than God creating people he knows will reject him before they're ever created, thus landing them in hell.
Jesus tells us to Love the Lord our God with all of our Heart, Mind, Soul & Strength. Can love be love is we do not have the freedom to choose? We have marriage today that is based on money. Can these people love also. OR do we have to choose a marriage based on money or love?
 
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joshua 1 9

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A few scattered thoughts. God "knew" Jeremiah before he was born because God is the author of time. He sees past, present and future at a glance- not like us humans.
God is Infinite, the temporal world has corruption and decay and eventual death. God is not limited by time but I still wonder how the infinite controls the temporal.
 
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Jesus tells us to Love the Lord our God with all of our Heart, Mind, Soul & Strength. Can love be love is we do not have the freedom to choose? We have marriage today that is based on money. Can these people love also. OR do we have to choose a marriage based on money or love?
To be clear I don't believe what I said but was making a point.
 
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Blade

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HAHA..not laughing at you Josh.. but really? This "what way did God know Jeremiah before He was born?" I guess I could give my best HUMAN meaning but would not come close to what a GOD IS thinking at this moment. Well no time in heaven.. so....Does He not call those things that are not as though they were?

What was said before this verse? We are so much more then we THINK we are. We have no clue as to how special unique we really are. How much thought love went into each one of us.. even Prophets didn't know.. my guess
 
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joshua 1 9

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danielmears

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“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I set you apart and appointed you a prophet to the nations.” (Jeremiah 1:5)

Anyone want to give a shot at what they think this means? In what way did God know Jeremiah before He was born? If he was "appointed" does he have a choice in if he is going to accept that appointment? Could the devil have stopped him from accomplishing the purpose that God had for him and his life?

"Your eyes saw my unformed body; all my days were written in Your book and ordained for me before one of them came to be. How precious to me are Your thoughts, O God, how vast is their sum! If I were to count them, they would outnumber the grains of sand" (Psalm 139:16,17,18)
God who is defined in the scriptures as light, love and Spirit, is all-knowing and omnipresent. He knew Christ also prior to birth as we can tell through the prophets and is outside of time seeing the entire time continuum. Therefore he also sees your entire life and has also known you in the womb. Nothing is a surprise to God and Jesus tells us that when listening to the Spirit, He will show you things to come. The prophets were able to prophecy, tell of things to come because God already knew what was to come, it was already done!
 
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