Before I formed you in the womb I knew you

joshua 1 9

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“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I set you apart and appointed you a prophet to the nations.” (Jeremiah 1:5)

Anyone want to give a shot at what they think this means? In what way did God know Jeremiah before He was born? If he was "appointed" does he have a choice in if he is going to accept that appointment? Could the devil have stopped him from accomplishing the purpose that God had for him and his life?

"Your eyes saw my unformed body; all my days were written in Your book and ordained for me before one of them came to be. How precious to me are Your thoughts, O God, how vast is their sum! If I were to count them, they would outnumber the grains of sand" (Psalm 139:16,17,18)
 
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This is tough because on the one hand it clearly represents that abortion is evil.

On the other hand it would mean that God uses out of wedlock intercourse, rape, artificial insemination, and other such methods to create people.

So maybe there's a meaning we haven't comprehended.
 
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St_Worm2

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If he was "appointed" does he have a choice in if he is going to accept that appointment? Could the devil have stopped him from accomplishing the purpose that God had for him and his life?
Hi Joshua, your first sentence above is a pretty big topic for discussion, but let me open by asking you another question, did Jonah have a choice?

As for the second sentence, I believe the context can help with that one (actually, the context provides us with some help for both of your questions, yes?). For instance:

Jeremiah 1
7 The LORD said to me,
“Do not say, ‘I am a youth,’
Because everywhere I send you, you shall go,
And all that I command you, you shall speak.
8 “Do not be afraid of them,
For I am with you to deliver you,” declares the LORD.
9 Then the LORD stretched out His hand and touched my mouth, and the LORD said to me,
“Behold, I have put My words in your mouth.
10 “See, I have appointed you this day over the nations and over the kingdoms,
To pluck up and to break down,
To destroy and to overthrow,
To build and to plant.”

--David
 
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St_Worm2

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God uses out of wedlock intercourse, rape, artificial insemination, and other such methods to create people.
True. In fact, I think He does far more than that since (for instance) Rahab the Harlot (the mother of Boaz), as well Judah and his daughter-in-law Tamar (who are the parents of Perez), are all part of the Messianic line, yes?

--David
 
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Francis Drake

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“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I set you apart and appointed you a prophet to the nations.” (Jeremiah 1:5)

Anyone want to give a shot at what they think this means? In what way did God know Jeremiah before He was born? If he was "appointed" does he have a choice in if he is going to accept that appointment? Could the devil have stopped him from accomplishing the purpose that God had for him and his life?

"Your eyes saw my unformed body; all my days were written in Your book and ordained for me before one of them came to be. How precious to me are Your thoughts, O God, how vast is their sum! If I were to count them, they would outnumber the grains of sand" (Psalm 139:16,17,18)
Christians have a perverted perspective of spiritual reality. According to most, men require a good adult understanding of theology in order to obtain life.
Yet Jesus said the reverse.
Matt18v2And having summoned a child, He set it in their midst, 3and said, “Truly I say to you, if you are not converted and become as the little children, you shall never enter into the kingdom of the heavens.
And.-
Mark10v14......……...“Permit the little children to come to Me; do not hinder them! For to such belongs the kingdom of God. 15Truly I say to you, whoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a child shall never enter into it.”

What sort of theology does a little child have? Truth be told, its not theology, but sensitivity to the Holy Spirit that gets us life!
Here's the fetus John, prior to birth, seeing and understanding in his spirit to recognise the presence of God.
Lk1v41And it came to pass, as Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby in her womb leaped. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit,
An unlearned tiny baby, still in the womb, has an active human spirit, capable of responding to the presence of God. That baby's spiritual senses are not confused by his fleshly five normal human senses. However it can respond to the love of God.
This applies to Isaiah, Jeremiah, John the Baptist, and Paul the Apostle and countless others.

Gal1v15But when God, the One having selected me from my mother's womb and having called me by His grace, was pleased to reveal his son in me....

Most would claim that God merely earmarked these men for future purposes. I reject that, and instead believe that God met with them in the womb and because of their reaction, he called them to their particular purpose.

We need to toss to one side the idea that calling is based on theological knowledge.
 
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joshua 1 9

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What sort of theology does a little child have?
A child has a very literal understanding. Noah's boat had lots of animals. How cute can that be. When Jesus said: "As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man." This is going to be more difficult for a child to understand. This requires a degree of abstract thinking that children have not developed yet.
 
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com7fy8

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In what way did God know Jeremiah before He was born?
Not only did God know him before he was born . . . but before he was formed in his mother's womb.

I don't know scripture which plainly says how God knew Jeremiah before he was formed in his mother's womb. But I know scripture with which I do get some idea of what was involved.

Romans 8:29 says God predestined us to be conformed to the image of Jesus. And I understand this predestining took place before God created the universe. Our Father was so pleased with His Son, that He wanted to have many children like Jesus is so pleasing and delighting to Him. So, He destined that He would create and beget children like Jesus. Love for Jesus was His motivation.

And God wanted to have humans included in ministering this, so we can share as family with our Father in His process of presenting the Gospel and having us grow in Jesus so we are conformed to His image.

Therefore, God chose to have Jeremiah become one of His people who would minister His word, and prophesy about things God wants and will do. He wanted to include humans, like I say, with Him in doing His work of love.
 
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joshua 1 9

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did Jonah have a choice?
If I remember the story Jonah had an issue with empathy and compassion. He did not seem to care if the people repented and got saved. We are told that if we want to go to Heaven we have to love everyone in Heaven. So Jonah had to work out his own salvation by learning to love and care about others.
 
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St_Worm2

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If I remember the story Jonah had an issue with empathy and compassion. He did not seem to care if the people repented and got saved. We are told that if we want to go to Heaven we have to love everyone in Heaven. So Jonah had to work out his own salvation by learning to love and care about others.
Jonah HATED the people who Lord was sending him to, so much so, in fact, that he disobeyed God and refused to go to them (because he knew that they would turn to the Lord and repent if he did, but he didn't want them to).

As for him working this out for himself, I believe he got more than just a little nudge in the right direction from the Lord .. via the whale who ate him and then spat him out on the shores of Nineveh where the Lord had called him to go.

You asked if Jeremiah could choose to disobey God because he was appointed to his task(s) by God, so I thought to mention Jonah, because he did just that .. disobeyed God (even though he was chosen and appointed by God like Jeremiah was). However, just because God has given us free will to choose doesn't mean that He will allow us to use it to accomplish an end run around His sovereign/decretive will. Rather, He will see His will done in spite of us (as Jonah learned in the belly of that whale ;)).

--David

Isaiah 46
9 “I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is no one like Me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things which have not been done,
Saying, ‘My purpose will be established,
And I will accomplish all My good pleasure’"

.
 
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joshua 1 9

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On the other hand it would mean that God uses out of wedlock intercourse, rape, artificial insemination, and other such methods to create people.
I have put almost 40 years into trying to understand this. I should not have married my first wife because the marriage ended in a divorce. But if I had not married her my son would not have been born. My son was very glad that he was born and that we brought him into the world. God is able to redeem this situation but there is a lot of sacrifice involved. Not only our own but the sacrifice Jesus made for us at Calvary. If I had followed God and His plan then everything would have been a lot easier. God does have a plan and we do need to seek to follow His plan and purpose for us and our life.
 
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Francis Drake

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A child has a very literal understanding. Noah's boat had lots of animals. How cute can that be. When Jesus said: "As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man." This is going to be more difficult for a child to understand. This requires a degree of abstract thinking that children have not developed yet.

You have completely missed my point. I am talking about the start of a spiritual relationship which according to churchianity, requires an understanding of specific adult theology. ie. Sinners prayer etc.
That's contrary to what Jesus said about little children.

John in his mother's womb instantly responded to the presence of God. Likewise Jeremiah, Paul, etc. That's why they talk about being called from the womb.

Obviously God knows before creation, when and how people will respond to his call on their life, and as such plans accordingly for their role.
 
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Francis Drake

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I have put almost 40 years into trying to understand this. I should not have married my first wife because the marriage ended in a divorce. But if I had not married her my son would not have been born. My son was very glad that he was born and that we brought him into the world. God is able to redeem this situation but there is a lot of sacrifice involved. Not only our own but the sacrifice Jesus made for us at Calvary. If I had followed God and His plan then everything would have been a lot easier. God does have a plan and we do need to seek to follow His plan and purpose for us and our life.
Ha!
I could have written that, except with son -and daughter.

When we finally humble ourselves, and turn to the lord for help, he doesn't start off with, "If only you hadn't...….."
God, who knows the end from the beginning, always has a plan ready.
 
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joshua 1 9

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God, who knows the end from the beginning, always has a plan ready.
He declares the end from the beginning and He watches over His word so that His Word accomplishes His purpose.

15My frame was not hidden from You when I was made in secret, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth. 16 Your eyes saw my unformed body; all my days were written in Your book and ordained for me before one of them came to be. 17 How precious to me are Your thoughts, O God, how vast is their sum! (Psalm 139)
 
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Francis Drake

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My daughter is in Heaven, I had a very vivid dream about her once.
Wow, precious.

Going back to my comment about meeting the Lord in the womb. My second wife, as a 3 year old, in a non Christian family, had regular out of body experiences where she was taken up to heaven. She met the Lord and did various things there. She even saw the Heavenly city with all its precious jewels etc.

It wasn't till she was 18 that she went to church, purely for meeting other young people. Someone gave her bible, which she read right through.
When she read the description of the Heavenly city, she realised she had already been there.
 
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Then he had the freedom to choose to be obedient or to not be obedient.
This is true (for both Jonah and Jeremiah). The reason that we can trust God (and trust in the great promises that He made to us) is because we know that His sovereign/decretive will always prevail over anyone else's will (like Jonah's) :amen:

--David
 
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