Is the land restoration to the nation of Israel found in the new covenant?

[Contenders Edge]

The New Jerusalem is 1500 by 1500 by 1500 miles. This is the entire Arab Continental plate. This is the land promised to Abraham and his descendants. As gentiles we are told that we are grafted in or adopted into the family of Abraham. We are told that when Jesus returns to the Mount of Olives there will be an earthquake. The east will be split from the west AND the north from the south. We can see from plate technotics that is exactly what is going to happen. This should leave no doubt that there is a time when Jesus will physically return to the Earth at the exact spot He departed from. The mount of Olives is very close to the temple mount. You can see one when your are standing on the other.

There is no doubt that the cataclysms of the forthcoming tribulation will change the face of the global landscape and that when the New Jerusalem does descend from Heaven, we who are in Christ, will be dwelling with Him there.

 

[Contenders Edge]

How much is "any"?

.

According to whose perspective?

 

[jgr]

The so-called dispensationalist godfathers you cited did not include Caiaphas or anyone else in that generation in the remnant described in Zechariah 13:9.

Predictably, they would not include anything or anyone that would invalidate their speculations.

They believe that a further fulfillment on a larger scale of Zechariah 12:10 is yet to come.

Everything in their commentaries is directed to the end times. What is yet to come after the end times?

Caiaphas has been long dead. It would be impossible for him to be included among the remnant described in Zechariah 13:9

Is Caiaphas unresurrectable?

Who other than Caiaphas et al pierced Christ?

Caiaphas et al are the only ones who fulfill the description in Zechariah 12:10.

 

[BABerean2]

According to whose perspective?

Since you are the one advocating some type of Dual Covenant Theology, based on race, it would be yours.

.

 

[BABerean2]

"Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years." (Rev 20:6) For some the question is: What does it mean to be a Priest of God and of Christ.

"But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light." (1Peter2:9)

Is the resurrection power of God already at work in your life?

I have already been through the first resurrection, which is found in the scripture below.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

.

 

[Contenders Edge]

With your beliefs, CE, you will need good luck when the end times events commence. Because you surely do not have good understanding of what God has made to happen in the past and what He plans for our future.

Jesus clearly stated who it was that He came to save. If you like to think the Jews are all of Israel- a gross misunderstanding; then Jesus' mission was a failure.
But the Northern ten tribes of the House of Israel, taken into exile by Assyria 135 years before the House of Judah was exiled by Babylon, are still extant and God has drawn a veil of secrecy over their whereabouts today. The prophesies of Jacob and Moses give us many clues and there is historical, etc, evidence that they comprise the majority in the Western nations. The Christian peoples!
It's quite simple really and if people deny that Christians are the Israelites of God, they are opposing plain facts, plus Bible teaching about who are the Overcomers for God.

I have corrected my typos in #1182, Must be more careful!

The distinction between the Jews and the Israelites was eliminated at the end of the seventy year captivity and all Israelites have been called Jews ever since. The post exile prophet Malachi did not address just the tribe of Judah, but all of Israel which means all twelve tribes. Did he commit a gross misunderstanding?

Jesus said that He had come to save the lost sheep of Israel, which means all twelve tribes. Was He mistaken in His understanding about the people He came to were? Whenever the Apostles addressed the people of Israel whether in preaching or writing, were they mistaken about who they all were?

And we are called "Israel" in Romans chapter 9 in the figurative and spiritual sense, but that title is not often applied to the Church in scripture which maintains a distinction between the Church, which transcends all nations, and the nation of Israel which was established through a bloodline and whose territory and borders were defined.

 

[Contenders Edge]

Since you are the one advocating some type of Dual Covenant Theology, based on race, it would be yours.

.

But I did not invent the Dual Covenant Theology that you accuse me of advocating and you clearly do not even know what Dual Covenant theology is.

 

[Contenders Edge]

Predictably, they would not include anything or anyone that would invalidate their speculations.

They take into account everything that invalidates yours.

Everything in their commentaries is directed to the end times. What is yet to come after the end times?

Millennial reign of Christ, Great White Throne Judgment, and finally, the New Heavens and the New Earth.

Is Caiaphas unresurrectable?

Who other than Caiaphas et al pierced Christ?

Caiaphas et al are the only ones who fulfill the description in Zechariah 12:10.

But whenever Christ is rejected do not those who reject Him pierce Him in their hearts?

 

[jgr]

They take into account everything that invalidates yours.

Quotes?

Millennial reign of Christ, Great White Throne Judgment, and finally, the New Heavens and the New Earth.

Scripture where those follow the end?

But whenever Christ is rejected do not those who reject Him pierce Him in their hearts?

Scripture?

"Hearts" do not appear in Zechariah 12:10.

 

[jgr]

How much is "any"?

According to whose perspective?

Only dispensationals claim that God has a people chosen by DNA.

Only dispensationals know the characteristics of "any".

But they will never divulge them.

 

[Contenders Edge]

Quotes?

None of the following ever happened in the days of Caiaphas or that generation:

"(1) The siege of Jerusalem preceding the battle of Armageddon (Zech 12:1-3);

(2) the battle itself (Zech 12:4-9);

(3) the "latter rain" in the pouring out of the Spirit and the personal revelation of Christ to the family of David and the remnant in Jerusalem, not merely as the glorious Deliverer, but as the One whom Israel pierced and has long rejected (Zech 12:10);

(4) the godly sorrow which follows that revelation (Zech 12:11-14);

(5) the cleansing fountain Zech 13:1 then to be effectually "opened" to Israel."




​

Scripture where those follow the end?

Revelation chapters 20-22.

Scripture?

"Hearts" do not appear in Zechariah 12:10.

Hebrews 6:4-6. Do those who reject Christ not crucify Him afresh in their hearts?

 

[Contenders Edge]

Only dispensationals claim that God has a people chosen by DNA.

Only dispensationals know the characteristics of "any".

But they will never divulge them.

And why did God choose that bloodline in the first place?

 

[jgr]

And why did God choose that bloodline in the first place?

He chose faith and obedience in the first place. (Genesis 22:18; Hebrews 11:8)

Bloodline was and is irrelevant. (Genesis 17:12)

 

[jgr]

Hebrews 6:4-6. Do those who reject Christ not crucify Him afresh in their hearts?

Did Caiaphas et al crucify Him only in their hearts?

Add the thoughts and actions of murderers. (Zechariah 12:10; Mark 11:18; Acts 3:15)

 

[jgr]

Revelation chapters 20-22.

Revelation 21:6
And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Revelation 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

 

[jgr]

None of the following ever happened in the days of Caiaphas or that generation:

"(1) The siege of Jerusalem preceding the battle of Armageddon (Zech 12:1-3);

(2) the battle itself (Zech 12:4-9);

(3) the "latter rain" in the pouring out of the Spirit and the personal revelation of Christ to the family of David and the remnant in Jerusalem, not merely as the glorious Deliverer, but as the One whom Israel pierced and has long rejected (Zech 12:10);

(4) the godly sorrow which follows that revelation (Zech 12:11-14);

(5) the cleansing fountain Zech 13:1 then to be effectually "opened" to Israel."​

Zechariah 12
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Caiaphas et al were of the house of David, were inhabitants of Jerusalem, and pierced the Son of God.

Dispensationally, they qualify the most closely as fulfillments of Zechariah 12:10.

Dispensationally, they'll be there then.

 

[BABerean2]

(3) the "latter rain" in the pouring out of the Spirit and the personal revelation of Christ to the family of David and the remnant in Jerusalem, not merely as the glorious Deliverer, but as the One whom Israel pierced and has long rejected (Zech 12:10);

Zec 12:10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.

....................................................

Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.
Joh 19:35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe.
Joh 19:36 For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, "NOT ONE OF HIS BONES SHALL BE BROKEN."
Joh 19:37 And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED."


Act 2:16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
Act 2:17 'AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS IN THE LAST DAYS, SAYS GOD, THAT I WILL POUR OUT OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL FLESH; YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS.


Act 2:36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

.

 

[BABerean2]

But I did not invent the Dual Covenant Theology that you accuse me of advocating and you clearly do not even know what Dual Covenant theology is.

At one time my wife and I supported the ministry of Pastor John Hagee.

We stopped because of his claims supporting Dual Covenant Theology, based on race.

.

 

[keras]

The distinction between the Jews and the Israelites was eliminated at the end of the seventy year captivity and all Israelites have been called Jews ever since. The post exile prophet Malachi did not address just the tribe of Judah, but all of Israel which means all twelve tribes. Did he commit a gross misunderstanding?

Jesus said that He had come to save the lost sheep of Israel, which means all twelve tribes. Was He mistaken in His understanding about the people He came to were? Whenever the Apostles addressed the people of Israel whether in preaching or writing, were they mistaken about who they all were?

And we are called "Israel" in Romans chapter 9 in the figurative and spiritual sense, but that title is not often applied to the Church in scripture which maintains a distinction between the Church, which transcends all nations, and the nation of Israel which was established through a bloodline and whose territory and borders were defined.

Your idea that there is now no distinction between Jews and Israel, cannot be correct as this means that Ezekiel 37 happened after the Babylonian captivity. Simply not credible!
Only a few thousand Jews came back to Jerusalem then, neither then or now are those people a vast multitude, as Israel was prophesied to become.
The Jews have usurped the name of Israel, in fact it was the American administration of 1948, that insisted they call the new Jewish nation; Israel. David ben Gurion was about to declare it the nation of Judah, as it is the Jewish homeland.

I don't deny that the Jews are also Israelites, but the main group of Israelites; the Northern ten tribes, remain scattered among the nations, awaiting their redemption and restoration.
Note that the exile punishment of Israel and Judah was for a decreed time. Ezekiel 4:4-6 Judah has returned, but Israel not yet.

The point is; the whole of the prophesies, OT and NT, apply to ALL the Israelites and to say they are fulfilled in only Judah, is quite wrong and a contradiction of scripture.
It is we Christian followers of Jesus, who are the inheritors of God's Promises to all Israel, we are the Overcomers for God, His Victorious ones and all of the Promised Land will be our possession. Isaiah 62:1-5 John sees us there in Revelation 7:9. BEFORE Jesus Returns.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I have already been through the first resurrection, which is found in the scripture below.

The resurrection power of God is already at work in us to raise us up from the dead.