What Was God's Rationale In This Instance?

cvanwey

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Numbers 31:17-18 (underlined area specifically)

'17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.'

As the title suggests, what was God's focus in this particular case? I have struggled to find a logical rationale/conclusion, but thus far, draw a blank - in support of an asserted 'loving Yahweh'...?

Seems as though the author of this narrative 'commands' that the taking of virgins was permissible.

Thus, I now ask, what was God's rationale?
 

eleos1954

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Numbers 31:17-18 (underlined area specifically)

'17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.'

As the title suggests, what was God's focus in this particular case? I have struggled to find a logical rationale/conclusion, but thus far, draw a blank - in support of an asserted 'loving Yahweh'...?

Seems as though the author of this narrative 'commands' that the taking of virgins was permissible.

Thus, I now ask, what was God's rationale?

The Midianites were a very corrupt people and were enemies of Israel. Enemies of Israel are enemies of God.

The Midianites were idolaters, and often led Israel astray to worship their gods. They also would attack them, steal their harvests etc.

Their destruction was to protect the Israelites and to ensure their existence.

When a group of people get so corrupt and will not change, not unusual for them to be destroyed, either by the Lord himself or through war by people on His behalf.

The destruction of the males and married females was to end the furtherance of their tribe/culture.

The young girls (virgins) posed no threat, therefore were spared. They could be married and assimilated into the Israeli culture.

... support of an asserted 'loving Yahweh'...?

This same "argument" could be used when God destroyed all the wicked in the days of Noah ... as also in that case we know why .... corruption was at a level that threatened mankind itself.

God never has and never will allow all His people to be totally destroyed by the wicked.
 
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cvanwey

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God's love does not depend on associating with people's modernist "love"

I would like to get back on track.


In post #2, you stated:

"To allow non-married women to marry Israelites and join their people."

I then asked in post #3.

"Before I address this assertion, would you care to provide the verse(s), which support this statement?"

Do you have an answer?
 
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eleos1954

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cvanwey

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The Midianites were a very corrupt people and were enemies of Israel. Enemies of Israel are enemies of God.

The Midianites were idolaters, and often led Israel astray to worship their gods. They also would attack them, steal their harvests etc.

Their destruction was to protect the Israelites and to ensure their existence.

When a group of people get so corrupt and will not change, not unusual for them to be destroyed, either by the Lord himself or through war by people on His behalf.

The destruction of the males and married females was to end the furtherance of their tribe/culture.

The young girls (virgins) posed no threat, therefore were spared. They could be married and assimilated into the Israeli culture.

First and foremost, where is this justification specified in the Bible, for this event?

Furthermore, why not spare the male infants, male toddlers, elderly women, and all soon-to-be widows as well? Tribe culture is likely taught/learned, not innate...

If the goal was to eliminate the entire blood line, then they would all need to be wiped out; all males and females completely. Otherwise, inherited and unwanted tendencies could likely be passed on from the surviving female's side to their offspring.

The rest, (i.e) culture, is a simple fix... Re-assign a new last name to the surviving young males, which would not know of their prior families, as they would not remember.

On a side note, how would the soldiers know which women were even fertile?

And even further, what if these surviving virgins wanted nothing to do with any of their captors? Where they free to leave?
 
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Not David

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I would like to get back on track.

In post #2, you stated:

"To allow non-married women to marry Israelites and join their people."

I then asked in post #3.

"Before I address this assertion, would you care to provide the verse(s), which support this statement?"

Do you have an answer?
I believe from a post explaining the passage.
 
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Not David

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First and foremost, where is this justification specified in the Bible, for this event?

Furthermore, why not spare the male infants, male toddlers, elderly women, and all soon-to-be widows as well? Tribe culture is likely taught/learned, not innate...

If the goal was to eliminate the entire blood line, then they would all need to be wiped out; all males and females completely. Otherwise, inherited and unwanted tendencies could likely be passed on from the surviving female's side to their offspring.

The rest, (i.e) culture, is a simple fix... Re-assign a new last name to the surviving young males, which would not know of their prior families, as they would not remember.

On a side note, how would the soldiers know which women were even fertile?
It seems like you don't know about their culture if you believe they had "last names" and you are not aware of the problem the Israelites had with surrounding nations.
 
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cloudyday2

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Numbers 31:17-18 (underlined area specifically)

'17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.'

As the title suggests, what was God's focus in this particular case? I have struggled to find a logical rationale/conclusion, but thus far, draw a blank - in support of an asserted 'loving Yahweh'...?

Seems as though the author of this narrative 'commands' that the taking of virgins was permissible.

Thus, I now ask, what was God's rationale?

I think a hint is in Numbers 31:14-16 RSV which references the Heresy of Peor (both quoted below).

Essentially the Moabite women caused the Israelite men to worship Moabite gods. Presumably the virgin women would be impressionable young women who could be assimilated into the Israelite culture without polluting it with their own culture.

I don't understand killing the young men while allowing the young women to live. Young men would be just as impressionable as young women, so why not circumcise them and adopt them into Israelite families? This gender distinction makes me wonder if the motive for sparing women was mercy or male lust.

14 And Moses was angry with the officers of the army, the commanders of thousands and the commanders of hundreds, who had come from service in the war. 15 Moses said to them, “Have you let all the women live? 16 Behold, these caused the people of Israel, by the counsel of Balaam, to act treacherously against the Lord in the matter of Pe′or, and so the plague came among the congregation of the Lord.
Bible Gateway passage: Numbers 31:14-16 - Revised Standard Version

According to the Torah, the Israelites, after spending a short time in the plain of Moab, begin to involve themselves with the Moabite women. Consequently, under the influence of Moabite culture, the Israelites begin participating in the worship of the Moabite gods, and join themselves to Baal Peor (Hebrew בעל פעור Ba‘al Pə‘ôr), in the Septuagint Beelphegōr, a baal associated with Mount Pe‘or.
Heresy of Peor - Wikipedia
 
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cvanwey

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It seems like you don't know about their culture if you believe they had "last names" and you are not aware of the problem the Israelites had with surrounding nations.

I'm aware 'last names' weren't around back then ;) That's quite evident from history. I think you missed my slight sarcasm. The simple fix can apply to re-assigning a 'first name', 'last name', or teaching a new culture to surviving youth, or other... My point is that it's a simple fix, which does not require death.

I'm asking you again... Can you please provide verse(s) which supports your assertion, in post #2?
 
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cvanwey

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I don't understand killing the young men while allowing the young women to live. Young men would be just as impressionable as young women, so why not circumcise them and adopt them into Israelite families? This gender distinction makes me wonder if the motive for sparing women was mercy or male lust.

Possible 'gold star' for you :)

All though, I doubt it's mercy. Otherwise, some might favor the infant boys over the infant girls. The soldiers are able to 'train up' more people, in their favor, to strengthen their numbers. Seems as though 'lust' could be the defining culprit however...?
 
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