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What Was God's Rationale In This Instance?

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics' started by cvanwey, Sep 9, 2019.

  1. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    Numbers 31:17-18 (underlined area specifically)

    '17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.'

    As the title suggests, what was God's focus in this particular case? I have struggled to find a logical rationale/conclusion, but thus far, draw a blank - in support of an asserted 'loving Yahweh'...?

    Seems as though the author of this narrative 'commands' that the taking of virgins was permissible.

    Thus, I now ask, what was God's rationale?
     
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  2. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    To allow non-married women to marry Israelites and join their people.
     
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  3. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    Before I address this assertion, would you care to provide the verse(s), which support this statement?
     
  4. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    Why? You think it might mean something else?
     
  5. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    I'm asking you to support your assertion, in this specific case. Can you?
     
  6. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    The Midianites were a very corrupt people and were enemies of Israel. Enemies of Israel are enemies of God.

    The Midianites were idolaters, and often led Israel astray to worship their gods. They also would attack them, steal their harvests etc.

    Their destruction was to protect the Israelites and to ensure their existence.

    When a group of people get so corrupt and will not change, not unusual for them to be destroyed, either by the Lord himself or through war by people on His behalf.

    The destruction of the males and married females was to end the furtherance of their tribe/culture.

    The young girls (virgins) posed no threat, therefore were spared. They could be married and assimilated into the Israeli culture.

    This same "argument" could be used when God destroyed all the wicked in the days of Noah ... as also in that case we know why .... corruption was at a level that threatened mankind itself.

    God never has and never will allow all His people to be totally destroyed by the wicked.
     
  7. Tinker Grey

    Tinker Grey Wanderer Supporter

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    Yeah. History is written by the victors.
     
  8. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    You wouldn't apply that concept with Nazi Germany, would you? ;)
     
  9. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    God's love does not depend on associating with people's modernist "love"
     
  10. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    I would like to get back on track.


    In post #2, you stated:

    "To allow non-married women to marry Israelites and join their people."

    I then asked in post #3.

    "Before I address this assertion, would you care to provide the verse(s), which support this statement?"

    Do you have an answer?
     
  11. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Which of course your response has nothing to do with the OP, which was

    What Was God's Rationale In This Instance?
     
  12. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    First and foremost, where is this justification specified in the Bible, for this event?

    Furthermore, why not spare the male infants, male toddlers, elderly women, and all soon-to-be widows as well? Tribe culture is likely taught/learned, not innate...

    If the goal was to eliminate the entire blood line, then they would all need to be wiped out; all males and females completely. Otherwise, inherited and unwanted tendencies could likely be passed on from the surviving female's side to their offspring.

    The rest, (i.e) culture, is a simple fix... Re-assign a new last name to the surviving young males, which would not know of their prior families, as they would not remember.

    On a side note, how would the soldiers know which women were even fertile?

    And even further, what if these surviving virgins wanted nothing to do with any of their captors? Where they free to leave?
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  13. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    I believe from a post explaining the passage.
     
  14. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    It seems like you don't know about their culture if you believe they had "last names" and you are not aware of the problem the Israelites had with surrounding nations.
     
  15. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    This does not answer the question. Please provide the verse(s) which demonstrate your assertion.
     
  16. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    I think a hint is in Numbers 31:14-16 RSV which references the Heresy of Peor (both quoted below).

    Essentially the Moabite women caused the Israelite men to worship Moabite gods. Presumably the virgin women would be impressionable young women who could be assimilated into the Israelite culture without polluting it with their own culture.

    I don't understand killing the young men while allowing the young women to live. Young men would be just as impressionable as young women, so why not circumcise them and adopt them into Israelite families? This gender distinction makes me wonder if the motive for sparing women was mercy or male lust.

    Bible Gateway passage: Numbers 31:14-16 - Revised Standard Version

    Heresy of Peor - Wikipedia
     
  17. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    I'm aware 'last names' weren't around back then ;) That's quite evident from history. I think you missed my slight sarcasm. The simple fix can apply to re-assigning a 'first name', 'last name', or teaching a new culture to surviving youth, or other... My point is that it's a simple fix, which does not require death.

    I'm asking you again... Can you please provide verse(s) which supports your assertion, in post #2?
     
  18. Tinker Grey

    Tinker Grey Wanderer Supporter

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    They didn't win.
     
  19. Tinker Grey

    Tinker Grey Wanderer Supporter

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    It has everything to do with your claim.
     
  20. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    Possible 'gold star' for you :)

    All though, I doubt it's mercy. Otherwise, some might favor the infant boys over the infant girls. The soldiers are able to 'train up' more people, in their favor, to strengthen their numbers. Seems as though 'lust' could be the defining culprit however...?
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
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