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Is the land restoration to the nation of Israel found in the new covenant?

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BABerean2

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That depends on your basis and whether or not I decide to debate that basis, depending on what you cite as your basis, will depend on whether or not I believe it to be relevant to the topic of this thread. If I do not believe it is, then I will open to discussing and debating it on a thread designated accordingly.

If DNA a test proved that I am a direct descendant of Jacob, and I move to the Middle East, it would have to apply to me based on what you have already said.

Many people of Jewish ancestry have no idea that they are direct descendants of Jacob.


.


.
 
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BABerean2

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If the nation of Israel embraces Christ, would they not then be entering into the New Covenant?

That is exactly what happened to about 3,000 Israelites on the Day of Pentecost, in the passage below.

When the Church began it was made up of Israelites.
The Gentiles were grafted in several years later.

The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church", as some today attempt to imply to make your Two Peoples of God doctrine work.


Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

These were part of the "remnant" of Romans 9:27.

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That is exactly what happened to about 3,000 Israelites on the Day of Pentecost, in the passage below.

When the Church began it was made up of Israelites.
The Gentiles were grafted in several years later.

The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church", as some today attempt to imply to make your Two Peoples of God doctrine work.


Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

These were part of the "remnant" of Romans 9:27.

.




But that was not the nation of Israel as a whole. Romans 9:27 is future tense, stating that when Israel is saved, only they who embrace the Messiah will be who is left.
 
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BABerean2

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But that was not the nation of Israel as a whole. Romans 9:27 is future tense, stating that when Israel is saved, only they who embrace the Messiah will be who is left.

The words "future" or "when" are not found in Romans 9:27.
The word "shall" is found.

Paul proves in Romans 11:5 that it is not just a future event.
There was a "remnant" during Paul's time.


The salvation of a "remnant" of Jews will occur until the Second Coming of Christ.



Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Rom 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:


Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The words "future" or "when" are not found in Romans 9:27.
The word "shall" is found.

Paul proves in Romans 11:5 that it is not just a future event.
There was a "remnant" during Paul's time.

Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
.
Sand of the seashore.......

Gen 22:17
that blessing I bless thee, and multiplying I multiply thy seed as stars of the heavens, and as sand which is on the sea-shore; and thy seed doth possess the gate of his enemies;
Gen 32:12
and Thou -- Thou hast said, I certainly do good with thee, and have set thy seed as the sand of the sea, which is not numbered because of the multitude.'

Isa 10:22
For though your people, O Israel, be as the sand of the sea,
A remnant of them will return;
The destruction decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

Jer 5:22
Me do ye not fear, an affirmation of Jehovah? From My presence are ye not pained? Who hath made sand the border of the sea, A limit age-during, and it passeth not over it, They shake themselves, and they are not able, Yea, sounded have its billows, and they pass not over.
Jer 33:22
‘As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, nor the sand of the sea measured, so will I multiply the descendants of David My servant and the Levites who minister to Me.' ”

Jer 33:22
As the host of the heavens is not numbered, Nor the sand of the sea measured, So I multiply the seed of David My servant, And the Levites My ministers.'
Hos 1:10
and the number of the sons of Israel hath been as the sand of the sea, that is not measured nor numbered, and it hath come to pass in the place where it is said to them, Ye are not My people, it is said to them, Sons of the Living God;
================================
Heb 11:12
wherefore, also from one were begotten -- and that of one who had become dead -- as the stars of the heaven in multitude, and as sand that is by the sea-shore -- the innumerable.

Rev 13:1
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and I saw out of the sea a beast coming up, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon its horns ten diadems, and upon its heads a name of evil speaking,
Rev 20:8
and he shall go forth to lead the nations astray, that are in the four corners of the earth -- Gog and Magog -- to gather them together to war, of whom the number is as the sand of the sea;
=================
 
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If you don't wish to continue the conversation, feel free to terminate it.


I will continue the conversation for as long as anyone else is willing. When did I ever say that I wanted to quit? Are you willing to continue?
 
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The words "future" or "when" are not found in Romans 9:27.
The word "shall" is found.

Paul proves in Romans 11:5 that it is not just a future event.
There was a "remnant" during Paul's time.


The salvation of a "remnant" of Jews will occur until the Second Coming of Christ.



Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Rom 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:


Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

.


While I view your rebuttal to be but mere semantics, the word "shall" can be rendered future tense depending upon the context in which it is used.
 
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If DNA a test proved that I am a direct descendant of Jacob, and I move to the Middle East, it would have to apply to me based on what you have already said.

Many people of Jewish ancestry have no idea that they are direct descendants of Jacob.


.


.


Every follower of Christ is entitled to all things as they pertain to the Church, but if you are both a descendant of Jacob and a follower of Christ, you receive both the promises as they pertain to the nation and that which pertains to the Church. Consider yourself doubly blessed if that is the case.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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48 pages

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Can anyone here say:

zxEtL6.gif


broken+record.jpg
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The promise of the restoration of the nation of Israel is found in the old covenant:

Deuteronomy 30:1-5 When all these things come upon you—the blessings and curses I have set before you—and you call them to mind in all the nations to which the LORD your God has banished you, and when you and your children return to the LORD your God and obey His voice with all your heart and all your soul according to everything I am giving you today, then He will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you and gather you from all the nations to which the LORD your God has scattered you. Even if you have been banished to the ends of the earth, He will gather you and return you from there. And the LORD your God will bring you into the land your fathers possessed, and you will take possession of it. He will cause you to prosper and multiply more than your fathers. The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, and you will love Him with all your heart and all your soul, so that you may live.

The Old testament prophecies of the restoration of the land of Israel are rooted in the clause of Deuteronomy 30:1-5. Several examples include:

Jeremiah 29:10-14 For thus says the Lord: When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will visit you, and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you back to this place. For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will hear you. You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the Lord, and I will restore your fortunes and gather you from all the nations and all the places where I have driven you, declares the Lord, and I will bring you back to the place from which I sent you into exile.

Ezekiel 39:25-28 Therefore this is what the Lord GOD says: Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob and will have compassion on the whole house of Israel, and I will be jealous for My holy name. They will forget their disgrace and all the treachery they committed against Me, when they dwell securely in their land, with no one to frighten them. When I bring them back from the peoples and gather them out of the lands of their enemies, I will show My holiness in them in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the LORD their God, when I regather them to their own land, after exiling them among the nations, not leaving any of them behind

Amos 9:14-15 I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant them on their land, and they shall never again be uprooted out of the land that I have given them,” says the Lord your God.

This was found fulfilled once under the old covenant, when those from the southern kingdom and northern kingdom returned to the land after the Babylonian exile.

Ezra 1:5 Then rose up the heads of the fathers’ houses of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests and the Levites, everyone whose spirit God had stirred to go up to rebuild the house of the Lord that is in Jerusalem.

1 Chronicles 9:1-4 So all Israel was recorded in genealogies, and these are written in the Book of the Kings of Israel. And Judah was taken into exile in Babylon because of their breach of faith. Now the first to dwell again in their possessions in their cities were Israel, the priests, the Levites, and the temple servants. And some of the people of Judah, Benjamin, Ephraim, and Manasseh lived in Jerusalem: Uthai the son of Ammihud, son of Omri, son of Imri, son of Bani, from the sons of Perez the son of Judah

However, the old covenant ended and was superseded by the new covenant through the blood of Christ.


Hebrews 10:9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second

Hebrews 9:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Additionally, the old covenant was only a shadow that was meant to point to Christ, and not the true reality.

Hebrews 10:1 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities,

colossians 2:16-17 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.


The old covenant is no longer in effect, as it was superseded by the new covenant. Thus, the promises of restoration to the land are no longer a valid.

an Earthly example to help understand:
I was single and created a will in which my best friend would inherit my estate in the event of my death. However, I later married and changed that will so that my wife, and not my friend, would inherit my estate in the event of my death. The new will cancels the old will, and thus my best friend would not inherit my estate.


So is the land restoration to the nation of Israel found in the new covenant?
In God's New Will and Testament, all covenants and promises are fulfilled in Christ and those who are in Christ.

The OT covenants and promises are the promissory clauses of God's Old Will and Testament, and they are both revoked and fulfilled in the promissory clauses of His New Will and Testament, written in the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ, the Divine Testator, coming into full force and effect upon His death.

If you have made your own Will and Testament, you will see that the very first clause states the following or its equivalent:

"I HEREBY REVOKE all former Wills and other testamentary dispositions by me at any time therefore made and declare this to be my Last Will and Testament."

This means that all former wills and testaments, and all of their promissory clauses in their entirety, are completely null and void. In their place, the promissory clauses of the current last new will and testament are the only ones in force and effect. Any promissory clause which appeared in the old will and testament, but does not appear in the new will and testament, is irrevocably null and void unless yet another new will and testament is made which re-includes it.

Thus we see:

Hebrews 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Hebrews 10
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

God`s New Will and Testament is everlasting:

Hebrews 13
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.

There is none greater.

We see other new promissory clauses of the New Will and Testament in:

Matthew 21:33-45
In this parable, the son, who is identified as the heir, typifies Christ.

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Hebrews 1:1,2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

In them, we see that the Heir and Beneficiary is Christ alone, that all of the promises are affirmed and confirmed in Him, and that He is Heir of all things. All includes the OT land promises, the restoration promises, the blessings promises, and all else. There are no exceptions.

And His New Will and Testament contains even better promises:

Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Such as:

Hebrews 11
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Additional promissory clauses in...:

Romans 8:16-17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

...make us who are in Christ joint heirs with Him.

But notice:
There are no promissory clauses for anyone, Jew or Gentile, who is not in Christ.
:amen:
That should end this discussion................
 
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BABerean2

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Every follower of Christ is entitled to all things as they pertain to the Church, but if you are both a descendant of Jacob and a follower of Christ, you receive both the promises as they pertain to the nation and that which pertains to the Church. Consider yourself doubly blessed if that is the case.

Are you saying all of us need to have a DNA test done?

When new people show up at your church, do you give them a DNA test kit?

What were the results of your test?


.
 
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Are you saying all of us need to have a DNA test done?

When new people show up at your church, do you give them a DNA test kit?

What were the results of your test?


.


Did I say anything about a DNA test as it pertains to salvation itself?
 
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BABerean2

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Did I say anything about a DNA test as it pertains to salvation itself?

If someone shows up at your church who needs to move to the middle east, and claim a piece of land, should you tell them this fact?

.
 
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Right.
We know who represents Judah and Benjamin; the Jewish people.
The Church represents the other 10 tribes, proved by how Jesus came to save them, Matthew 15:24, His mission was successful and we Christians are the result. We will be assigned into the tribe the God know is our family heritage. John see every faithful Christian in the holy Land, soon after the Sixth Seal disaster has cleared and cleansed all the area. Revelation 7:9


It is believed that those among the Gentiles who feared and worshiped God were the sheep outside the fold of Israel to whom Jesus was referring. After the book of 2 Chronicles, the Bible no longer makes a distinction between the Jews and the other ten tribes. They are all called Jews. From that point on, there is only Jew and Gentile. The promised land will indeed be cleansed but the righteous among the nation of Israel will be those who are left when Christ returns.
 
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If someone shows up at your church who needs to move to the middle east, and claim a piece of land, should you tell them this fact?

.


Haven't had that happen yet, have you?
 
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