Marty Samson From Hillsong Renounce Faith

[Yekcidmij]

It isn’t a matter of ought but the visibility the position provides which allows a believer to share their faith or the Christian perspective on an issue.

It’s the reason Tebow added that scripture. He didn’t have to do it. But he knew millions were looking at him and He used it as an opportunity to point viewers to God.

I think I just lack the same respect for celebrity. I don't think people ought to take their cue's from actors, singers and athletes (except in the cases that you want to know more about acting, singing, and athletics and except in cases where the advice is based on something more than the person giving it [eg, a well reasoned argument]). If people were looking for authoritative medical, legal, or financial advice, I wouldn't recommend anyone listen to Tebow or Marty Sampson (no matter what they put on their shirt) - I'd tell them to find a doctor, lawyer or certified financial adviser. If people want to travel by plane, I would suggest they get find licensed pilots, and not a celebrity that likes to talk about how one ought to fly planes. In the case of more authoritative theological advice, I would tell them they ought to find an appropriate church's pastors and elders and stop taking cue's from people on TV, social media, or other popularity based personalities.

I get why Marty Sampson, Tim Tebow and every other celebrity on the planet thinks they need to dole out advice. They think they have something that needs to be distributed to the general populace and the general populace confers on them too much knowledge and authority.

 

[AlexDTX]

But if he thinks this is what anyone can do, this leaves out how God makes us able to be kind and caring. H

This is something I think many Christians, and definitely the unregenerate, don't realize. The entire world was changed by the death and resurrection of Christ. Before that time, people's heart were hardened and behaved as barbarians. Today all unregenerate people are still hard hearted and barbarians, but the influence of the body of Christ scattered all over the world greatly mitigates their behavior.

If you want to see what life in a world without Christ is like, watch Game of Thrones. They are all barbarians.

 

[AlexDTX]

• Oh he will be back. Lord Jesus is The Good Shepherd .

I agree. We all have seasons of our life, and Christ knows those seasons.

 

[AlexDTX]

I still question God about why he sends people to hell.

If this helps, God does not send anyone to the Lake of Fire (Hell is prison, not the LOF). We make that choice when we reject the gift of life in Christ. The LOF was not made for mankind, but for the fallen angels.

This is my speculation, so take it or leave it. But I think angels can not die so the LOF was made to contain them. Mankind, however, is born dead and the aging process is merely that death being manifested. When people die without Christ they choose to remain dead, which is why the LOF is called the 2nd death.

But then I ask, why would God would send people to hell if he didn't want us to obey him out of fear?

Obedience by fear is for the unregenerate. Their hearts are hard and their conscience is seared. When a person accepts the gift of life in Christ, obedience becomes a matter of love. Paul said, the goodness of the Lord leads us to repentance. Jesus said that if we love him we will keep his commandments. Jesus did not mean we keep his commandments to show we love him, but rather, because of our love for him we WANT to keep his commandments.

 

[AlexDTX]

loosing

losing. Loosing means to release. Losing means to sustain a loss.

 

[bèlla]

I don't think people ought to take their cue's from actors, singers and athletes

I don’t either. And I agree with Charles.

But that doesn’t diminish the reality that many look to others whether they’re prominent or not.

Christians are no different. Most would grab a phone and start a thread detailing a problem (often to strangers) before seeking the Lord’s input. Prayer frequently follows fleshly insight.

This forum flies in the face of all you said. Most respondents aren’t experts in the subjects they’re addressing. And they’re strangers to boot. Just like the ones we’re discussing.

But perhaps it’s acceptable to solicit advice from individuals who profess to share your beliefs through a medium of anonymity. I guess ‘Christian’ makes it okay even though vetting is nearly impossible and few are privy to real-time exchanges.

I’m not sure this is the multitude of counselors the bible mentions. But to each his own.

 

[bekkilyn]

.

 

[AlexDTX]

don't think just because it was Translated into English, that you necessarily know the Definition for such and such word

Too many don't even know what the English means, and are not able to follow a point over many chapters.

you need to know what that specific word means in GREEK not English.

Greek and Hebrew is helpful, but, get real, unless you are fluent in Greek or Hebrew, you don't really know what those words mean. Furthermore, I am not talking about contemporary Greek and Hebrew, but biblical which is a culture that none of us have lived in and don't really know.

 

[RDKirk]

I’m not the first to echo those sentiments and I’m unlikely to be the last. I think it’s fair to say some hold to that conviction and others don’t. Whether that’s the result of surrender or directive is difficult to say.

It's a matter purely between that celebrity to understand his calling and God. The gifts of God are without repentance, so his calling was never dependent on his celebrity.

Nobody else should be telling him what he ought to do with his celebrity.

 

[AlexDTX]

LOL this is one of my pet peeves as well. I typically do not correct, but it does make me cringe every time I see it! My fear is that it's misused so much now that it will actually become formal usage in the dictionary.

Yes. This word in particular can not be caught in spell check, either, since spell check is not AI and can not comprehend the intended meaning.

 

[AlexDTX]

I think the issue isn't about the pre-eminence of the words in the bible however.

We had plenty of that, it resulted in the bible replacing the role of the Holy Spirit.

Excellent point. But even with the help of the Holy Spirit, we are all in process of renewing our minds, especially from the decades of conditioning by the school systems and media.

 

[JIMINZ]

losing. Loosing means to release. Losing means to sustain a loss.

As Gomer would say, thank ya, thank ya, thank ya!

 

[JIMINZ]

Too many don't even know what the English means, and are not able to follow a point over many chapters.


Greek and Hebrew is helpful, but, get real, unless you are fluent in Greek or Hebrew, you don't really know what those words mean. Furthermore, I am not talking about contemporary Greek and Hebrew, but biblical which is a culture that none of us have lived in and don't really know.

I believe to many people are getting real and discounting the power of the Holy Spirit, our understanding when we read the Bible is not something which we do, the Holy Spirit supplies us with the knowledge we are seeking, if people make the effort, the Holy Spirit is sufficient to provide the needed understanding of those words one is seeking knowledge of, be it from the Hebrew, Aramaic, or even the Greek Biblical Texts.

 

[Yekcidmij]

This forum flies in the face of all you said.

I don't know that anyone here is being given a platform based on their status as a celebrity. For example, I would assume that my statements are only being taken seriously as far as they're based on good reasons. And in the case that someone thought my reasoning was good, they should still be cautious and do their own research before accepting my view on things. Even well reasoned arguments often turn out to be incorrect.

Most respondents aren’t experts in the subjects they’re addressing. And they’re strangers to boot. Just like the ones we’re discussing.

I think this forum, or other forums in general, are very different from celebrity platforms. A priori, as far as anyone here can tell, nobody here is an expert on the topics of discussion. Nobody confers undeserved knowledge and authority on anyone else. In fact, on forums, people argue against other people for exactly that reason - nobody believes anyone has any special authority prima facie. You have to make a good argument backed up by reason and facts - you don't just get to dole out advice based on who you are (and it's annoying when people try).

I think Marty Sampson is doing the opposite. He's using his position as a popular musician and doling out advice knowing that people will confer knowledge and authority on him because he's a popular musician. Plenty of other celebrities do this too (Marty is just the topic of this thread).

Unlike anonymous internet forums, what we witness with the assumption and perception of celebrity authority is a form of the Halo Effect (Halo Effect | Psychology Today) and ultracrepidarianism (Ultracrepidarianism - Wikipedia) or the Dunning-Kruger effect (Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia). Marty Sampson is a good musician, therefore his opinions on other matters should carry more weight as well. I think it's the opposite - Marty Sampson is an expert musician, therefore nobody, including Marty himself, should confer authority on him outside his domain of expertise. I think anonymous internet forums make the Halo Effect more difficult to take root. If I start giving out medical advice, you will wisely be quite suspicious and cautious, or better yet, you would more wisely ignore my advice. If I gave out marriage advice, you would wisely take it with a grain of salt. You would only believe my advice on those matters in the special case that they aligned with research, actual experts, and facts.


.

 

[Petunia]

As Gomer would say, thank ya, thank ya, thank ya!

But oh how that country bumpkin could sing!

 

[bèlla]

It's a matter purely between that celebrity to understand his calling and God. The gifts of God are without repentance, so his calling was never dependent on his celebrity.

Ideally we’re walking with the Lord and seeking His input on our mission. I would never resign myself to human interpretation without the Holy Spirit’s confirmation.

There’s a difference between having a principle and advising someone to follow suit. I wouldn’t tell someone to mirror my actions. I’ve been spiritually prepared for that position. But if they wanted a personal perspective I would share it. But above all they need to hear from Him.

 

[JIMINZ]

LOL this is one of my pet peeves as well. I typically do not correct, but it does make me cringe every time I see it! My fear is that it's misused so much now that it will actually become formal usage in the dictionary.

Would you like to go through and spellcheck the entire post, rather than sitting back and being Peeved because I inadvertently misspelled 1 word.

I see it stopped you from going any further in your reading of it, sorry.

This misspelling did not diminish from the whole of the text written.

Tell you what, next time I am ready to post something, I will send it to you first, that way, you will be able to Spell Check it for me before I send it out for the general public to read......Deal?

While your at it, you can also check the punctuation, I know it is atrocious, therefore feel free to correct away.

 

[AlexDTX]

I believe to many people are getting real and discounting the power of the Holy Spirit, our understanding when we read the Bible is not something which we do, the Holy Spirit supplies us with the knowledge we are seeking, if people make the effort, the Holy Spirit is sufficient to provide the needed understanding of those words one is seeking knowledge of, be it from the Hebrew, Aramaic, or even the Greek Biblical Texts.

A comparative read of different translations can be helpful. I use E-sword which is a wonderful, intuitive, Bible program that makes looking up words in Hebrew and Greek easy along with comparing the same verse in different translations convenient.

But the two points I made are still the most important. 1) Looking up the English words and fully understanding their meaning, and etymological history. Translators are usually careful in their choice of English words. 2) Being able to see and follow the point of the writer over large expanse of text. Paul in particular is a writer who has main points he addresses throughout his epistles, with many sub-points in between. Too often readers get lost in the sub-points without remembering his main point.

I agree with the role of the Holy Spirit in illuminating meaning, however, he can only illuminate according to our ability to understand. As we understand more, he can build on that information. But as the writer of Hebrews said of the Jewish believers, they should have been teachers but still needed foundational knowledge.

 

[bekkilyn]

Would you like to go through and spellcheck the entire post, rather than sitting back and being Peeved because I inadvertently misspelled 1 word.

I see it stopped you from going any further in your reading of it, sorry.

This misspelling did not diminish from the whole of the text written.

Tell you what, next time I am ready to post something, I will send it to you first, that way, you will be able to Spell Check it for me before I send it out for the general public to read......Deal?

While your at it, you can also check the punctuation, I know it is atrocious, therefore feel free to correct away.

I'm not sure why you are angry with me. I did not attempt to correct you, nor do I typically do so. We all have pet peeves. It does not mean that I am peeved with you personally, or that I did not read your post.

However, I decided to remove my post since you found it to be personally harmful.

 

[bèlla]

For example, I would assume that my statements are only being taken seriously as far as they're based on good reasons.

Good is subjective. I wouldn’t listen to a passerby that I randomly encountered. Why would I accord the same to a virtual identity? I don’t know you.

I’m not trying to put you on the spot. But in all truth your statements shouldn’t carry weight at all. I can neither see or test your fruit. I would not partake before it occurred.

You speak of a platform when you benefit from participating in a medium where you’re able to reach many. Your words can be digested by anyone who peruses the site. It isn’t a closed forum.

The issue is the ability to be heard. That’s how influence spreads. Some have a larger megaphone than others. Being heard has never been easier than it is today.

You have to make a good argument backed up by reason and facts - you don't just get to dole out advice based on who you are (and it's annoying when people try).

I would posit one should neither give or take advice in this medium but that’s a different discussion. ;-)

If I start giving out medical advice, you will wisely be quite suspicious and cautious, or better yet, you would more wisely ignore my advice. If I gave out marriage advice, you would wisely take it with a grain of salt. You would only believe my advice on those matters in the special case that they aligned with research, actual experts, and facts.

None of the above apply. I would never listen to you. I don’t know you. With all the things I’ve posted thus far you’ll see a continual theme in my threads. Sharing a discovery or encouraging others to share their experiences.

I don’t seek advice and have never initiated a discussion based on a problem. I make no distinction between the Internet and face-to-face connections. In short, I don’t do things online that I wouldn’t do real time or give credence (or consideration) that would not occur elsewhere.

While all you’ve stated is understandable (I get it) it is inconceivable and transgresses my conception of place and familiarity. If you work from that vantage point we’re on the same page.

Thus, I am incapable of embracing advice from strangers (celebrities or otherwise) without a directive from Him. I must know the tree. I can’t set that aside. Not even in this space. In a perfect world we’d all turn to Him.