Marty Samson From Hillsong Renounce Faith

[Yekcidmij]

Hillsong writer reveals he's no longer a Christian: 'I'm genuinely losing my faith'

When celebrities (Christian or otherwise) use their platforms for moral, philosophical or some other sort of advice, instruction or direction, this is how I generally feel:

If I need musical advice, he might be a good source though. Hope he works out his personal confusion before he offers advice to others next time.

Maybe that's a terrible way to see the world, but that's how I see it. The content of his actual writing struck me as bordering ignorant and incoherent - just saying how I saw it and trying to put it nicely.

 

[com7fy8]

I'm sure that he believes that Jesus exist. He just may not want to follow him anymore.

I don't know anything about him. So, I don't know what was really going on in him while he was ministering. I would fall away from my so-called faith, when people showed me up, somehow; for a while I was only criticizing people and inviting people to a church. I thought I was a Christian; but I can imagine that there are people who on purpose infiltrate certain Christian culture groups, then make as though they lost their faith, when all along they were undercover. I don't know how many people do this, on purpose. But it seems a number of people are in a hurry to fill their pulpits and other positions; so they look at if candidates show what they want to show. And so, they can be easy to infiltrate, by someone with talent and some ability to talk their talk and tone their voices; we all have seen how an actor can get us to experience him or her to be a movie character who is not at all like the actor.

I would say "faith working through love" (in Galatians 5:6) is more than only faith in beliefs. God's faith works in us, having us do things of His love. We experience this living in God's own love which has Heaven's own pleasant rest and personal guiding of God in us. So, if someone says he or she has left his or her "faith", what is the person talking about?

But I know I thought I was seeking to do what God wanted . . . while I was supposedly a Catholic, and then I was supposing I was living as a born-again person. I was not submitting to how faith would have me sharing with God and living in His love, like I would say Romans 5:5 means all of us children of God do.

Plus, Jesus says His sheep hear His voice and will not follow another. They know His voice.

We know His voice.

Jesus is gentle and humble. So, we need to be humble and quiet so we can hear Him and submit to Him in His "rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:28-30) So, how much did Marty talk about learning from Jesus so we stay in His "rest for your souls"?

Also, we have >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

This is in our "hearts" > how our Heavenly Father personally rules every child of His in His own peace. If we have submitted to God, in order to stay with Him in His peace and discover how He rules us in His own peace > how can we get away from this? God's peace changes us into obedient children who want what His peace has us wanting; He in our hearts rules our wills which act according to our hearts' character and desires > Philippians 2:13 > so if we have trusted in Jesus by submitting our wills to God's working . . . how can any being get us away from God's almighty keeping and working?

God's peace is almighty against fear and boredom and loneliness and frustration and arguing and complaining and food abuse and immoral stuff and unforgiveness and bitterness. And He leads us according to all He knows is true, about people around us and our circumstances; so we can't be fooled if and while God is personally ruling us in His peace. And our Creator's peace makes us creative for how to love any and all people. Because God's peace is His own harmony of His all-loving love with His almighty power.

This is what grace favors, in us.

So, what was Marty talking about? There are ministers who mainly talk and sing and write about God at a distance; and ones say we need to trust Him, but it is not by personally submitting to how He rules us, all the time, in His own peace. Ones can make grace about God favoring us and taking care of our lives and our own problems, but they do not talk about how grace first favors God's own Son by changing us to be and to love like Jesus and be submissive to God in His own peace.

So, I wonder if Marty and his church speakers emphasize this which is basic to our calling as Christians.

Let me see if I can find the lyrics of one of his songs, and test where he concentrates attention. According to my lyrics source on the Net >

It says he leaves fear behind, is drawn in by our Father's love, all people are in His hands, God will watch over him.

He only wants to see a glimpse of God, and Jesus gave His life for all people.

Well, there is nothing obviously off, here, possibly, that I am seeing as an indicator, a forewarning sign.

For me personally, though, I tend to stay with singing "we" and "us" and "our" when I sing songs, because Jesus is not all or only about loving me and taking care of me. But various songs say "I" and "me" and "my", not only contemporary Christian songs, by the way > "Blessed Assurance", so acclaimed, has only "I" and "me" and "my" named.

And while we live in God's love, we are not only glimpsing Him, but sharing with Him . . . quietly, I would say, since God is pleased with the "incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (in 1 Peter 3:4)

So, from this I see how God in His love is quiet . . . never silent. But if we are not being deeply quiet and sensitive to Him, of course we are going to miss out, by letting or taking our attention elsewhere. And "God is love" (in 1 John 4:8&16); I understand that God who is love is personal with people, not at all distant and only theoretical, but humans can tend to be not caring and personal with every person; and so, by being impersonal and distant, we miss out on sharing with God in His love which has us being all-loving and tender and personal with any person, with hope for any person, at all > love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7).

So, as soon as I get away from caring for and prayerfully having hope for any person . . . I miss out on enjoying God's personal and tenderly caring affection and kindness < and this is more than a glimpse > God's love effects our nature so we stay with Him and grow to be more and more His way in love.

So, was Marty talking about some feeling he hoped to have, at times??

I can trust God to evaluate who I really am and trust Him to do all He wants to do with me . . . and I should say and pray "us", not only me, myself, and I . . . if I love any and all people the way God desires and His love has us loving.

 

[bèlla]

We had plenty of that, it resulted in the bible replacing the role of the Holy Spirit. Regrettably the article while thoughtful, does not trace the trunk of the corrupted tree back to its roots.

Francis Chan addressed the absence of the Holy Spirit in Forgotten God. He’s rarely mentioned these days and is often an afterthought. I cannot fathom a victorious Christian walk without His counsel and presence.

 

[bèlla]

When celebrities (Christian or otherwise) use their platforms for moral, philosophical or some other sort of advice, instruction or direction.

Christian celebrities and influencers are supposed to use their platform to address the subjects and burdens the Lord has laid upon their heart. We aren’t meant to be silent or politically correct. The spotlight was granted for truth not comfort.

We are visible examples of the faith and should operate with that knowledge and responsibility in mind.

 

[com7fy8]

The content of his actual writing struck me as bordering ignorant and incoherent - just saying how I saw it and trying to put it nicely.

How about an example?

I would say the words of his song, "All I Need Is You", can be good. But it can be coming from someone being a struggling victim hoping God will keep the person from suffering too much, while hoping to at times get a glimpse of the LORD. There are people who trust God, like they are victims.

 

[Blade]

"loosing his faith" You know we all have moments like this. Yet now days it gets posted for the world to see to then have gossip everywhere. Pray for him if we want to help

"I haven't 'renounced' my faith but it's on 'incredibly shaky ground', says Marty Sampson"

 

[Yekcidmij]

How about an example?

"How many preachers fall? Many,” No one talks about it."​

I think plenty of people talk about apostasy. Maybe they don't talk about it in the circles he runs in? I mean, entire articles have been dedicated to it - this isn't an unaddressed phenomena.

"How many miracles happen. Not many. No one talks about it. "​

Can't even be certain what he means by this, much less establish that "no one talks about it." Plenty of people claim to have seen or experienced miracles and plenty of people who haven't have addressed why they don't believe that miracles are really abundant. Miracles have been extensively addressed by Christians of all stripes.

"Why is the Bible full of contradictions? No one talks about it"​

Doesn't a simple google search reveal that this is talked about extensively? A cursory glance at Christian literature, stretching back thousands of years, talks about it. Jewish Rabbi's have been talking about it that long as well. This isn't an unaddressed discovery made in recent days by Marty Sampson. So has he just been too lazy? Is he just ignorant of how these issues have been addressed? I gave him the benefit of ignorance since ignorance can be excusable - laziness is inexcusable.

"How can God be love yet send four billion people to a place, all ‘coz they don’t believe? No one talks about it"​

This is talked about all the time. Volumes of books, sermons, podcasts, blogs, articles, commentaries, theses, academic papers, internet forums etc.. have addressed this very subject. Where does this guy live? Is he that lazy or just ignorant?

""Science keeps piercing the truth of every religion. "​

Can't be sure what he means by this or how it's applicable. This subject has also been extensively addressed.

"All I know is what’s true to me right now, " (Hillsong Songwriter Marty Sampson Says He’s Losing His Christian Faith | RELEVANT Magazine)​

This is probably incoherent and devoid of meaning. I think he's espousing some for of moral relativism, or some version of subjectivism where the truth evaluations of propositional claims, moral or otherwise, are determined by individuals. But this is incoherent as it is self defeating. It requires an objective truth evaluation of at least one propositional claim (I would argue infinitely many more actually).

Christian claims are claims that require objective evaluations about reality. Many of these claims must be evaluated as true of false, and not just true of false for the person doing the evaluation, but true or false in the actual, objective world. Christian claims (or anyone's claims for that matter) are claims about the way things really are. For example, a central claim is that, "Jesus physically rose from the dead." That doesn't seem to be a claim whose truth value is determined on an individual basis and it seems incoherent to suggest that it is. If the truth evaluation of a proposition claim is determined on an individual basis, then I will take the statement "what's true for me is true for everyone else too" and evaluate that as true. What would Marty Sampson do? Tell me to evaluate that statement as false? Based on what? His premise allows that. If I get to determine what's true "for me" then I extend what's true "for me" to be true for everyone else. He must appeal to at least one propositional claim that is objectively true to argue against me, namely, "truth evaluations are subjective." But that's as incoherent as me saying: "this sentence is false."

 

[Yekcidmij]

Christian celebrities and influencers are supposed to use their platform to address the subjects and burdens the Lord has laid upon their heart. We aren’t meant to be silent or politically correct. The spotlight was granted for truth not comfort.

People can use their platforms for whatever they want, I don't really care. I'm just not sure why anyone ought to listen for any reason other than they like the music. Why should anyone consider the opinions of Marty Sampson? They don't know him and he doesn't know them. Are his positions argued on the basis of anything other than his being Marty Sampson? I mean, not really. He even said all he knows it's what's true for him, which means his opinions are based on nothing other than his being Mary Sampson.

Perhaps if I needed music advice or advice in the Christian music industry, Marty would be a go-to person (assuming his advice wasn't true for him only).

Even though he can use his platform for whatever he wants, I'm not sure that means he should.

 

[com7fy8]

The content of his actual writing struck me as bordering ignorant and incoherent - just saying how I saw it and trying to put it nicely.

How about an example?

"How many preachers fall? Many,” No one talks about it."

I think these things are what he said after he decided he is not going to present himself as being a Christian. When you said, "his writing", I thought you meant things he wrote while he was ministering. I wanted to see what kind of things he was writing, so I could see if he was writing sound things or was in possibly weakness with false or weak things so the spirit of that could take him out.

For example, if he concentrated attention on how God's grace favors us, this could be neglecting how God's grace is first about changing us to become like Jesus so we are caring about any and all others as ourselves . . . versus being concerned about God's favor getting our own selves taken care of. The spirit of such self-centered grace seeking could take him . . . more obviously away.

But your examples, I think, are of what he said, not of what he wrote in order to minister; I meant what he wrote before he stopped ministering.

But I do appreciate your taking the time to answer my question, though we were not clear what we meant

I personally find that humans can fool our own selves and not even know it. And we can argue what we want to be true, then say it is so great and authoritative . . . because we wish it to be so. So, I might look at apologetics and healing reports and testimonies; but they can't prove God.

I will offer things for consideration, but I find how only God can prove Himself.

So, my tendency is to not base my faith on apologetics and what I get for reports from people I don't even know personally. I will test in prayer, for however God wants to use anything, but I keep finding He simply keeps me seeking Him for real correction so I am really with Him and really loving the way He wants, while submitting to how He rules us in His peace >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

We all are "called in one body" to this; so this needs to have our attention. Arguing and scholarship can be a way of calling attention elsewhere, from simple discovering how God has us living His word. Possibly, Marty let people get his attention elsewhere to comparing wording of the Bible and arguing ideas and to other items.

 

[RDKirk]

Christian celebrities and influencers are supposed to use their platform to address the subjects and burdens the Lord has laid upon their heart.

I don't agree with that. Christian music is one of the examples of the gift of exhortation. That does not make him an evangelist of the gospel to unbelievers, nor does it even make him a teacher to fellow Christians. His gift is exhortation. Worldly celebrity does not make him an evangelist.

There is a fundamental problem with the very concept of "Christian celebrity." There is no such office in the Church, and Jesus' words about the relationship of Christians to the world does not leave an inch of room for celebration of Christians by the world.

Within the Body of Christ, Paul definitely and explicitly quashed the notion of Christian celebrity.

So personal celebrity is something every Christian should regard as a trap. Satan would certainly give a stage to people the Holy Spirit has not intended them to have.

We aren’t meant to be silent or politically correct. The spotlight was granted for truth not comfort.
We are visible examples of the faith and should operate with that knowledge and responsibility in mind.

I think one of the better examples of how to do that, if one is a celebrity in the world but also a Christian, is shown by Denzel Washington. He doesn't make a public show of his Christianity, but I've seen him in videos talking to young actors--people around him, people who look to him for wisdom--and as he speaks to them about fundamentals of acting...while they're hanging on his every word...then he will start to talk about Jesus.

That's when he lets them know that even in such a business that denies Jesus all around, it's still possible to know Jesus and to follow Him. And that is a fact that many people in such situations do not realize. "I can be in this business and still believe?" So many people do not know that.[/quote]

 

[bèlla]

I'm just not sure why anyone ought to listen for any reason other than they like the music.

It isn’t a matter of ought but the visibility the position provides which allows a believer to share their faith or the Christian perspective on an issue.

It’s the reason Tebow added that scripture. He didn’t have to do it. But he knew millions were looking at him and He used it as an opportunity to point viewers to God.

 

[bèlla]

I don't agree with that. Christian music is one of the examples of the gift of exhortation. That does not make him an evangelist of the gospel to unbelievers, nor does it even make him a teacher to fellow Christians. His gift is exhortation.

Only the Lord knows how we’re knit and the gifts and talents He’s bestowed. There are many ways a gift may be utilized.

Narrow thinking and the cookie cutter approach is what led many to assume I was meant for ministry in the church and should attend seminary school. They mistook my zeal for their interpretation of the gifts and assumed I’d take the usual course. But they were wrong.

I’m not validating celebrity. I am speaking from the vantage point of public visibility that can be used for good and His glory.

We don’t share the same backgrounds, experiences, knowledge, or equipping. It’s errant to assume our purposes are the same.

I am called to the marketplace and will proceed as I’ve been instructed. We’ll have to disagree on this one.

 

[RDKirk]

Only the Lord knows how we’re knit and the gifts and talents He’s bestowed. There are many ways a gift may be utilized.

And that is why you can't say:

Christian celebrities and influencers are supposed to use their platform to address the subjects and burdens the Lord has laid upon their heart.

 

[bèlla]

And that is why you can't say:

I’m not the first to echo those sentiments and I’m unlikely to be the last. I think it’s fair to say some hold to that conviction and others don’t. Whether that’s the result of surrender or directive is difficult to say.

 

[Petunia]

"loosing his faith" You know we all have moments like this. Yet now days it gets posted for the world to see to then have gossip everywhere. Pray for him if we want to help

"I haven't 'renounced' my faith but it's on 'incredibly shaky ground', says Marty Sampson"

His faith can be the size of a mustard seed, while his doubt the size of a mountain. God is much bigger than both. If Christ was ever in him, He's still there. God doesn't leave His people. He nudges them back to Himself.

Oh he will be back. Lord Jesus is The Good Shepherd . Matt. 18: 11-14

 

[bekkilyn]

That is a problem, and I saw it behind Sampson's words.

It's very easy to lose faith (or have it completely shattered) when the bible is the center of one's faith instead of living person of Jesus Christ.

 

[bèlla]

It's very easy to lose faith (or have it completely shattered) when the bible is the center of one's faith instead of living person of Jesus Christ.

When we are communing with the Lord the Holy Spirit will nudge and prick our spirit when we’re going awry.

 

[bekkilyn]

When we are communing with the Lord the Holy Spirit will nudge and prick our spirit when we’re going awry.

Agreed, but that still assumes that He is who is central to our faith. Christianity in general is full of bible-idolatry and God the *person* whether that be Father, Son, and/or Spirit is oft forgotten and thus not heeded.

 

[AlexDTX]

Hillsong writer reveals he's no longer a Christian: 'I'm genuinely losing my faith'

When I came to Christ back in 1985 I lived in New Orleans and Jimmy Swaggart fell into scandal because he was caught with prostitutes on Airline Highway in Metarie, LA where I attended the AOG where I experienced the new birth. And to top it off, Swaggart was having an affair with the pastor of the AOG I attended, Marvin Gorman.

Shortly after that the scandal of Jim and Tammy Baker became big news. In 1990 I moved to Texas to go to Christ for the Nations and Bob Tilton became a big scandal. Many people were disillusioned but not me. When asked why I was not disillusioned, I told them that none of those people died for my sins. My faith has never been in men, but Jesus.

The church system systemically takes people's eyes off Jesus just enough by turning their eyes on the preachers and musicians. I am not faulting the system in of itself, but the natural tendency to lean on other men instead of God.

I think this is a factor in Marty Sampson's case. He, being on the other end, becomes an idol (subconsciously) in the minds of the worshipers. He had to play the game of the system to gain the international acclaim he was in. I see him playing two games: 1) as a church worship leader and 2) as a recording artist.

Many children of preachers (PK) and missionaries (MK) leave the faith, because their parents become too religious, ie, strict, in their raising of their children. Kids naturally need room to see for themselves what is right and wrong.

Christian culture is a two edged sword. It has many wonderful and positive benefits, but it can also become a strait jacket that Jesus never imposed. His yoke is easy and light.

 

[bèlla]

Agreed, but that still assumes that He is who is central to our faith. Christianity in general is full of bible-idolatry and God the *person* whether that be Father, Son, and/or Spirit is oft forgotten and thus not heeded.

I concur. Our relationship is the difference between who I was and the woman I’ve become. I value the Word but I need His counsel, knowledge and wisdom to discern and apply its truths. He is my banner.