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Featured Marty Samson From Hillsong Renounce Faith

Discussion in 'Current News & Events' started by Introverted1293, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    My point is that he doesn't like the answers he's getting from the religious folk around him, but if he actually knew Jesus that would not matter. Faith, by definition, does not require answers.
     
  2. Introverted1293

    Introverted1293 My name is Jesse Supporter

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    Yes, I am not at all arguing with these verses. In fact, these verses also causes me to be confuse. The Bible does say that there is no fear in love, but it also says to fear God who has the power to throw both soul and body into hell. That is why I am confused.
     
  3. Introverted1293

    Introverted1293 My name is Jesse Supporter

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    Thank you for your reply as well.

    Just know I wasn't trying to argue with you. I just get confused with scripture. So, you who are spiritual may know more then me.
     
  4. Introverted1293

    Introverted1293 My name is Jesse Supporter

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    Thank you very much for that.

    Actually that was helpful.
     
  5. Swan7

    Swan7 Made in the image of His Grace Supporter

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    No I understand that. The reason why I go through detail like this is to explain to those that lurk, I’m always keeping in mind those that don’t wish to participate in discussions.
    I don’t know everything, that’s for sure, but I’m always trying to keep in consideration the whole Bible. :oldthumbsup:
     
  6. GraceBro

    GraceBro Eternally Forgiven, Alive, and Secure.

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    Well, maybe by your definition of faith. As for me, I have to put faith in something tangible; Jesus, the object of my faith. Granted, I may not have all the answers, but I have enough to put my faith in. Faith is my response to the truth that God has revealed to me. I know Jesus and answers do matter to me. Also, I didn't see in the article where Samson claims to not "like the answers he's getting from the religious folk around him." He just exclaims to have found all these deficiencies in the Bible and his Christian walk that made him walk away. Again, I don't think he was ever saved and just proves what I have always believed; that going to church doesn't make you a Christian. You must be born again.
     
  7. GraceBro

    GraceBro Eternally Forgiven, Alive, and Secure.

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    You're welcome. Thanks for opening the discussion.
     
  8. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Well, Thomas found Jesus tangible and thus not a ghost, but then Jesus said unto him, “Thomas, because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed. Blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed.

    I'm not saying that you've actually found Jesus literally tangible as Thomas did, but that's not required for faith.
     
  9. GraceBro

    GraceBro Eternally Forgiven, Alive, and Secure.

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    Tangible in that I am receiving answers, facts, to my questions, not physically touching Jesus. I don't have faith in faith as some describe Christianity; as if we believe because we are supposed to believe despite not having any evidence or proof of anything.
     
  10. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    "Tangible" means actually touchable. Intellectual information is not tangible.

    Faith is not belief. Faith is what causes belief.

    "Faith is the substance of things hoped for; the evidence of things not seen."

    The writer of Hebrews used two Greek words that connoted something that physically existed, not something that was merely conceptual. The Greeks had plenty of words for concepts, but that's not what the writer used, and he doubled down in describing faith in physical terms.

    If a man is hoping to win the lottery, his hope is based on the lottery ticket he holds in his hand. The lottery ticket is not the hope. The lottery ticket is a real thing, a palpable thing, the substance of his hope.

    If a jury rules that a defendent is guilty, it's because there is evidence of the crime they did not themselves see. The evidence itself is not a concept or a belief, it is a real, palpable thing that points to what is not seen.

    The ancient Greeks discovered air. That is, they realized that breath is not a substance generated within the lungs, and wind is not a substance generated somewhere beyond the mountains, but that both were merely the movement of an invisible substance that constantly surrounded everyone. The Greeks said, "Wind is the evidence of the invisible air." The air is invisible, but wind is palpable.

    If a person has faith, real faith, he knows it's not just a belief or concept. He knows it's something he didn't have before, but he has it now. It is something that pushes him--like wind--in the direction of emulating Jesus.
     
  11. GraceBro

    GraceBro Eternally Forgiven, Alive, and Secure.

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    Tangible also means "clear and definite; real." Not just physical touch. Therefore, I stand by my definition.

    Well, I believe faith is a response to truth. God says something is true, I believe it and then by faith live in it. As Hebrews 11:1 points out, faith has "substance" and "evidence;" something tangible. But, I digress, we are now entering into the monologues as this is becoming an exercise in trying to convince others instead of giving a reason for the hope we have. I can hear Paul saying, "Remind the believers of these things, charging them before God to avoid quarreling over words; this is in no way profitable, and leads its listeners to ruin (2 Timothy 2:14)." I am finished with this interaction. Grace and Peace.
     
  12. GOD Shines Forth!

    GOD Shines Forth! Active Member Supporter

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    Note to self: Learn from this, will be useful on internet forums.
     
  13. AlexDTX

    AlexDTX Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. This proverb is addressed to those who think lightly of God and have not come to him. If you have accepted the salvation of Christ offered to all mankind you have nothing to fear but the consequences of sin. The chastisement of the Lord is to let the consequences of sin be experienced.

    We are not under the Old Testament and never have been. The Mosaic covenant was made with one family only, Israel. It has never applied to the rests of mankind. The Mosaic Law was given for one reason, to show it was impossible to obey, although it still showed what is true righteousness. It was given to make what was already written in the hearts and conscience of all people conscious to the mind.

    This is about motivation. The goats are those who say they believe in Christ, but never truly follow him. The sheep are those who love Christ and follow him.
     
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  14. Introverted1293

    Introverted1293 My name is Jesse Supporter

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    I understand.

    I just can't stop fearing him.

    But thank you very much for taking the time to explain to me. I did not mean to become argumentative.

    I guess I just need to ask God to help me understand.
     
  15. Introverted1293

    Introverted1293 My name is Jesse Supporter

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    Thank you very much. I do find the Bible little confusing. But I guess I just need to pray for understanding.
     
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  16. Swan7

    Swan7 Made in the image of His Grace Supporter

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    For sure! I forget to do that sometimes also, but He reminds me. :clap:
     
  17. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    When the Bible says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom, it's about when you first understand this sovereign God.

    I believed in a god all my life, he seemed pretty scary, could send you to hell and such, reward you if you were good but in the end he was a man-made god..

    But one day I was saved, and I met or truly understood the sovereign God of this universe for the first time - and I was terrified. I mean I saw every second of my life and every moment in it and every decision I made orchestrated by a God I couldn't control to bring me to that very moment in time - to the moment of my salvation.. and I knew real fear of God.

    It didn't take long for that fear to turn into a true and very deep love of Him.. that fear was the beginning of wisdom, not the end. Fear is never the end with God as it gives way to love once you know Him just a little more fully, and if it doesn't give way to a deep and abiding love then you likely never met/understood God.

    And I say that because God introduces Himself to us in love, not fear. The same sovereign God who brings us to the initial moment of our salvation, also promises to bring it to its completion. So if initial fear only begets more fear, you've yet to understand God.

    Matthew 11:28

    Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

    So keep looking for Him. Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you. Ask God for a heart understanding of Him in truth. There is rest to be had, when you find Him in truth.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
  18. AlexDTX

    AlexDTX Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't know your background, but I have seen with others that those whose father at home was loving have an easier time accepting God as a loving Father. And those whose father at home was strict disciplinarian tend to see God as a punitive Father.

    In my case, I had a loving father at home, even after my parents divorced. In my wife's family her father was stricter and she has had a harder time accepting God as a loving Father. However, in my almost 30 years of marriage, I have made every effort to be a loving husband even through our hardest times together. I have tried to be a role model of our loving heavenly Father to her, and she has slowly come to accept Father's unconditional love as a reality in her life.

    Christians are fond of quoting this proverb:

    Pro_22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

    As a guide to education. But it means more than that, as the Lord has shown me. Between my 2 parents, I have always loved my father more than my mother. Then I saw it was because my father was always very affectionate towards me and freely hugged me. Whereas my mother, who I know loves me, was not demonstrative of her affection.

    That childhood experience impacted me my whole life (now in my late '60's). The things that happen to us, good or bad, in childhood, are very difficult to change in later life.
     
  19. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    Yes, He intimately knows us and all of our ways, and He planned out ahead of time all of our days.
    And still He loves us with that great love of His that conquers every enemy we have that seeks to destroy us.
    Many are the trials of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them all.
    From v16
    Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
    And in Your book they all were written,
    The days fashioned for me,
    When as yet there were none of them.



    Psalm 139 New King James Version (NKJV)
    God’s Perfect Knowledge of Man
    For the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David.
    1 O Lord, You have searched me and known me.
    2 You know my sitting down and my rising up;
    You understand my thought afar off.
    3 You comprehend my path and my lying down,
    And are acquainted with all my ways.
    4 For there is not a word on my tongue,
    But behold, O Lord, You know it altogether.
    5 You have hedged me behind and before,
    And laid Your hand upon me.
    6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
    It is high, I cannot attain it.

    7 Where can I go from Your Spirit?
    Or where can I flee from Your presence?
    8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there;
    If I make my bed in [c]hell, behold, You are there.
    9 If I take the wings of the morning,
    And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
    10 Even there Your hand shall lead me,
    And Your right hand shall hold me.
    11 If I say, “Surely the darkness shall fall on me,”
    Even the night shall be light about me;
    12 Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You,
    But the night shines as the day;
    The darkness and the light are both alike to You.

    13 For You formed my inward parts;
    You covered me in my mother’s womb.
    14 I will praise You, for am fearfully and wonderfully made;
    Marvelous are Your works,
    And that my soul knows very well.
    15 My frame was not hidden from You,
    When I was made in secret,
    And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
    16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
    And in Your book they all were written,
    The days fashioned for me,
    When as yet there were none of them.

    17 How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God!
    How great is the sum of them!
    18 If I should count them, they would be more in number than the sand;
    When I awake, I am still with You.

    19 Oh, that You would slay the wicked, O God!
    Depart from me, therefore, you bloodthirsty men.
    20 For they speak against You wickedly;
    Your enemies take Your name in vain.
    21 Do I not hate them, O Lord, who hate You?
    And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?
    22 I hate them with perfect hatred;
    I count them my enemies.

    23 Search me, O God, and know my heart;
    Try me, and know my anxieties;
    24 And see if there is any wicked way in me,
    And lead me in the way everlasting.
     
  20. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Well, scripture says this:

    Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. -- Romans 8
     
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