The Lake Of Fire

[FineLinen]

The 2nd Death

“Orthodox theology holds the second death to be a state of endless torment in which the sufferers are held forever in conscious being by a continuous act of Divine preservation, with the soul object of a punishment without end. This however would in no sense be death. The second death does not perpetuate the hopeless condition of the sinner to all eternity.

What the Holy Spirit means by ‘fire and brimstone’ is ‘divine purification,’ or a judgment fire which consumes all that is antagonistic to divine law and love.

Before the Great White Throne, that vast throng, their naked spirits conscious now of the blazing holiness of God, will be subjected to the process of the second death. What those processes are, their intensity and their duration, we are not told. They will suffice, however, not in themselves to perfect, but to bring those who suffer them to that agreement with the judgment upon sin which they effect, and through the cross finally to reconcile them to God (Col. 1:20), in a subjection where He will be ‘All in all.’ When that acquiescence in judgment upon sin is reached, and applied in soul and spirit, then will be possible the final victory over death. Hence it is written that when this subjection is reached, then and only then, ‘the last enemy, death, shall be destroyed.’ ” -A. E. Saxby

The Lake Of Fire

Brimstone= theion

Root of theion= Theos

Theion= the breath of Jehovah/ Theos

The Lake of Divine Fire

In conclusion to this study, the final question is for each of us to weigh. Our God IS Consuming Fire. The Lake IS the Breath of Theos.

 

[DamianWarS]

Dear Paul: You are not paying attention!

The Lake of Fire is NOT hell

" Death and hell">>>> "are cast into the Lake of Fire."

hell is a very ambiguous word for the judgment side of the afterlife. The OT uses the word "Sheol" as an indiscriminate place of the dead were all pass through, yet the KJV translates many instances as hell. The OT has no real concept of the afterlife and it is more like a place of mystery, a closed door that all must open but what's beyond it is unknown.

the NT dominantly uses "Hades" and hades in Greek mythology is also an indiscriminate place of the dead but in the NT it is revealed as a discriminate and undesired place of the dead that we can be saved from. So the NT "hades" is not the same as Greek mythology "hades".

Other words are used to describe some sort of judgment all translated as "hell" in the KJV. There is "Gehenna" which instead of borrowing words from Greek mythology it is from Hebrew mythology and it seems to be more extreme than Hades. And there is Tartarus which is another borrowed Greek mythology, in this case, the discrimination is for fallen angels. They all have inconsistent descriptors as to what these places are, some say fire, some don't mention fire at all.

In Rev. hades is thrown in the Lake of Fire, but Gehenna and Tartarus are uncommented. All are translated as hell in various translations and the last one, Tartarus, is most commonly translated as hell (where hades/gehenna are more commonly transliterated)

I personally think we should stop using the word "hell" as it is more shaped by literature like Dante's inferno than it is the bible. We should use the words that are given and just transliterate them. This would be Sheol for the OT and Hades, Gehenna, Tartarus (and the Lake of Fire) for the NT. this, however, does leave some questions as to where Gehenna and Tartarus fit... are the Hades? Are they the Lake of Fire.... are they different places?

EDIT: another important point to bring up is the terms Hades, Gehenna are Tartarus are all contextualized from existing mythology (even Gehenna which is just Hebrew mythology). This shows us we may redeem and borrow other words to express this concept. "Hell" can fit into this contextualized space but we do need to be careful with how we use it because it is so misused and misunderstood. But this also means we may use other words in the right context, perhaps when speaking with a Muslim you can say "Jahannam" or for a Buddhist "Niraya". We connect with words we know not to foreign words and we see it in action right in the bible as Tartarus and Hades are right out of Greek polytheistic mythology. Hades itself is a name for a god of the underworld and we shouldn't be afraid to use words our mission already identifies with.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

hell is a very ambiguous word for the judgment side of the afterlife.
I personally think we should stop using the word "hell" as it is more shaped by literature like Dante's inferno than it is the bible. We should use the words that are given and just transliterate them. This would be Sheol for the OT and Hades, Gehenna, Tartarus (and the Lake of Fire) for the NT. this, however, does leave some questions as to where Gehenna and Tartarus fit... are the Hades? Are they the Lake of Fire.... are they different places?

I agree...........

What about 2 Peter 2:4 "Tartarus"

GEHENNA<G1067> "Lake of Fire" "Valley of Hinnon" 1st century Judea/Jerusalem

Matthew 23:33
"Serpents! brood of vipers! how? ye may be fleeing from the judging<2920> of the Gehenna<1067>

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

Jeremiah 19:
2 “And go out to the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, which is by the entry of the Potsherd Gate; and proclaim there the words that I will tell you,
6 “therefore behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD, “that this place shall no more be called Tophet or the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter.
=====================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived..............
========================

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Kolasis aionion -Matthew 25:46-

according to this logic, there is no such thing as unending, everlasting life. the two words used as adjectives for "punishment" and "life" are the same greek word.

 

[FineLinen]

hell is a very ambiguous word for the judgment side of the afterlife. The OT uses the word "Sheol" as an indiscriminate place of the dead were all pass through, yet the KJV translates many instances as hell. The OT has no real concept of the afterlife and it is more like a place of mystery, a closed door that all must open but what's beyond it is unknown.

the NT dominantly uses "Hades" and hades in Greek mythology is also an indiscriminate place of the dead but in the NT it is revealed as a discriminate and undesired place of the dead that we can be saved from. So the NT "hades" is not the same as Greek mythology "hades".

Other words are used to describe some sort of judgment all translated as "hell" in the KJV. There is "Gehenna" which instead of borrowing words from Greek mythology it is from Hebrew mythology and it seems to be more extreme than Hades. And there is Tartarus which is another borrowed Greek mythology, in this case, the discrimination is for fallen angels. They all have inconsistent descriptors as to what these places are, some say fire, some don't mention fire at all.

In Rev. hades is thrown in the Lake of Fire, but Gehenna and Tartarus are uncommented. All are translated as hell in various translations and the last one, Tartarus, is most commonly translated as hell (where hades/gehenna are more commonly transliterated)

I personally think we should stop using the word "hell" as it is more shaped by literature like Dante's inferno than it is the bible. We should use the words that are given and just transliterate them. This would be Sheol for the OT and Hades, Gehenna, Tartarus (and the Lake of Fire) for the NT. this, however, does leave some questions as to where Gehenna and Tartarus fit... are the Hades? Are they the Lake of Fire.... are they different places?

EDIT: another important point to bring up is the terms Hades, Gehenna are Tartarus are all contextualized from existing mythology (even Gehenna which is just Hebrew mythology). This shows us we may redeem and borrow other words to express this concept. "Hell" can fit into this contextualized space but we do need to be careful with how we use it because it is so misused and misunderstood. But this also means we may use other words in the right context, perhaps when speaking with a Muslim you can say "Jahannam" or for a Buddhist "Niraya". We connect with words we know not to foreign words and we see it in action right in the bible as Tartarus and Hades are right out of Greek polytheistic mythology. Hades itself is a name for a god of the underworld and we shouldn't be afraid to use words our mission already identifies with.

Dear Damian: Much thanks. Let me be as clear as possible>>>

ALL 4 Hells are terminated IN the Lake!

 

[FineLinen]

according to this logic, there is no such thing as unending, everlasting life. the two words used as adjectives for "punishment" and "life" are the same greek word.

Dear W: This is no "logic">>>>

Aionios is aionios is aionios

Shall we do a review regarding aionios?

If you are not interested in a review, perhaps you can disclose what before aionios means?

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Dear W: This is no "logic">>>>

Aionios is aionios is aionios

Shall we do a review regarding aionios?

If you are not interested in a review, perhaps you can disclose what before aionios means?

so there's no everlasting life then?

 

[DamianWarS]

Dear Damian: Much thanks. Let me be as clear as possible>>>

ALL 4 Hells are terminated IN the Lake!

Dear FineLinen: You are not paying attention!

there are no Hells (certainly not 4) Revelation tells us Hades is thrown into the Lake of Fire, it does not tell us Gehenna and Tartarus are. Rather than sweeping them under a rug can you tell me why Gehenna and Tartarus are not the Lake of Fire or where scripture tells us they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

so there's no everlasting life then?

Only in the faith and belief that if of the great "I AM"

Revelation Chapter 1 Verses
Revelation Chapter 1 Verses
Revelation Chapter 1 Verses

John 6:
35 And Jesus said to them, 'I/egw<1473> AM/eimi<1510> the bread of the life;
he who is coming unto Me may not hunger, and he who is believing in Me may not thirst -- at any time;
John 8:12 Again, therefore, Jesus spake to them, saying, 'I/egw<1473> AM/eimi<1510> the light of the world; he who is following Me shall not walk in the darkness, but he shall have the light of the life.'
John 8:28 Jesus, therefore, said to them, 'When ye may lift up the Son of Man then ye will know that I/egw<1473> AM/eimi<1510> He;
and of Myself I do nothing, but according as My Father did teach me, these things I speak;
John 10:
7 Jesus said therefore again to them, 'Verily, verily, I say to you --I/egw<1473> AM/eimi<1510> the door of the sheep;
=========================
Reve 1:8
I/egw<1473> AM/eimi<1510> to a*** kai to w a..................
Reve 1:17
And when I saw him, I did fall at his feet as dead, and he placed his right hand upon me, saying to me, 'Be not afraid; I/egw<1473> AM/eimi<1510> the First and the Last,
Reve 2:23
and her children I will kill in death,
and know shall all the assemblies that I/egw<1473> AM/eimi<1510> He who is searching reins and hearts; and I will give to you -- to each -- according to your works.

Reve 22:16
'I, Jesus did send my messenger to testify to you these things concerning the assemblies;
I/egw<1473> AM/eimi<1510> the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star!
========================
Reve 1:18 and the living One! And I became dead and behold! living I am being into the Ages of the Ages.
And I am having the Keys of the Hades and of the Death

touV aiwnaV <165> twn <3588> aiwnwn <165>

Reve 22:5 And night not is being there and need not they are having of a lamp and light of sun.
That Lord the God shall be lighting them, and they shall be reigning into the Ages of the Ages.

eiV <1519> touV <3588> aiwnaV <165> twn <3588> aiwnwn <165>

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Only in the faith and belief that if of the great "I AM"

Revelation Chapter 1 Verses
Revelation Chapter 1 Verses
Revelation Chapter 1 Verses

John 6:
35 And Jesus said to them, 'I/egw<1473> AM/eimi<1510> the bread of the life;
he who is coming unto Me may not hunger, and he who is believing in Me may not thirst -- at any time;
John 8:12 Again, therefore, Jesus spake to them, saying, 'I/egw<1473> AM/eimi<1510> the light of the world; he who is following Me shall not walk in the darkness, but he shall have the light of the life.'
John 8:28 Jesus, therefore, said to them, 'When ye may lift up the Son of Man then ye will know that I/egw<1473> AM/eimi<1510> He;
and of Myself I do nothing, but according as My Father did teach me, these things I speak;
John 10:
7 Jesus said therefore again to them, 'Verily, verily, I say to you --I/egw<1473> AM/eimi<1510> the door of the sheep;
=========================
Reve 1:8
I/egw<1473> AM/eimi<1510> to a*** kai to w a..................
Reve 1:17
And when I saw him, I did fall at his feet as dead, and he placed his right hand upon me, saying to me, 'Be not afraid; I/egw<1473> AM/eimi<1510> the First and the Last,
Reve 2:23
and her children I will kill in death,
and know shall all the assemblies that I/egw<1473> AM/eimi<1510> He who is searching reins and hearts; and I will give to you -- to each -- according to your works.

Reve 22:16
'I, Jesus did send my messenger to testify to you these things concerning the assemblies;
I/egw<1473> AM/eimi<1510> the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star!
========================
Reve 1:18 and the living One! And I became dead and behold! living I am being into the Ages of the Ages.
And I am having the Keys of the Hades and of the Death

touV aiwnaV <165> twn <3588> aiwnwn <165>

Reve 22:5 And night not is being there and need not they are having of a lamp and light of sun.
That Lord the God shall be lighting them, and they shall be reigning into the Ages of the Ages.

eiV <1519> touV <3588> aiwnaV <165> twn <3588> aiwnwn <165>

was looking for the person I quoted to deal with the logical quagmire he put himself in...

but thanks for the information.

 

[FineLinen]

so there's no everlasting life then?

Dear W: NOT on the basis of aionios or aeon/aion. NOT!

You failed to answer the question. What is before aionios?

There is a simple, yet profound, description for aionios life which exceeds duration by a magnitude of 10+>>>

"This IS aionios zao, that we may know You..."

Put on your listening ears W:

Aionios zao & aionios kolasis is a quality of life and judgement by the Aidios God of Glory

 

[FineLinen]

Dear FineLinen: You are not paying attention!

there are no Hells (certainly not 4) Revelation tells us Hades is thrown into the Lake of Fire, it does not tell us Gehenna and Tartarus are. Rather than sweeping them under a rug can you tell me why Gehenna and Tartarus are not the Lake of Fire or where scripture tells us they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire?

Dear Damian: It matters zilch to me how many hell's exist!

Our God IS Consuming Fire, the Lake of Theion/Theos is the final destination of ta panta

 

[DamianWarS]

Dear Damian: It matters zilch to me how many hell's exist!

Our God IS Consuming Fire, the Lake of Theion/Theos is the final destination of ta panta

right... so did you want to answer the questions how Gehenna and Tartarus relate to the OP or would you rather leave them under the rug where you swept them?

 

[FineLinen]

right... so did you want to answer the questions how Gehenna and Tartarus relate to the OP or would you rather leave them under the rug where you swept them?

Dear Damian: I will leave ALL dismal dimensions of despair under the Rug of all rugs, the Author & Finisher of ta panta!

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Dear W: NOT on the basis of aionios or aeon/aion. NOT!

You failed to answer the question. What is before aionios?

There is a simple, yet profound, description for aionios life which exceeds duration by a magnitude of 10+>>>

"This IS aionios zao, that we may know You..."

Put on your listening ears W:

Aionios zao & aionios kolasis is a quality of life and judgement by the Aidios God of Glory

you guys really don't do context very well.

the text is plain for anyone to read. there's everlasting punishment and everlasting life. you say everlasting punishment doesn't mean eternal punishment. ok. so there's no everlasting life either.

attempting to redirect the discussion with an irrelevant question of what comes before forever isn't gonna help you.

i'm listening to everything you say old man. you just aren't making any sense.

 

[FineLinen]

you guys really don't do context very well.

the text is plain for anyone to read. there's everlasting punishment and everlasting life. you say everlasting punishment doesn't mean eternal punishment. ok. so there's no everlasting life either.

attempting to redirect the discussion with an irrelevant question of what comes before forever isn't gonna help you.

i'm listening to everything you say old man. you just aren't making any sense.

Dear W: There is indeed aionios zao & aionios kolasis! When you can demonstrate that aionios or aeon has the scope of aidios (and I do not mean Strong & Thayer) we shall go from there.

The question is NOT irrelevant and NOT a redirection! Aionios is aionios is aionios!

Question=

What is before aionios?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Dear Damian: I will leave ALL dismal dimensions of despair under the Rug of all rugs, the Author & Finisher of ta panta!

Greek New Testament - Parallel Greek New Testament by John Hurt

Heb 12:2
looking unto Jesus, the author/inqugurator<747> and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
aforwnteV eiV ton thV pistewV archgon kai teleiw thn ihsoun

Rev 1:8
'I am the Alpha and the Omega, Beginning and End, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is coming -- the Almighty.'
egw eimi to a kai to w arch kai telos
==============

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

Deu 4:30
in distress being to thee, and all these things have found thee, in the latter end of the days,
and thou hast turned back unto Jehovah thy God, and hast hearkened to His voice;

1Co 10:11
And all these things as types did happen to those persons, and they were written for our admonition, to whom the end of the ages did come,

tauta de panta tupoi sunebainon ekeinoiV egrafh de proV nouqesian hmwn eiV ouV ta telh twn aiwnwn kathnthsen

1Pe 4:7
And of all things the end hath come nigh; be sober-minded, then, and watch unto the prayers,

pantwn de to teloV hggiken swfronhsate oun kai nhyate eiV tas proseucaV
1Pe 4:17
because it is the time of the beginning of the judgment from the house of God, and if first from us, what the end of those disobedient to the good news of God?
=======================
Rev 1:8
'I am the Alpha and the Omega, Beginning and End, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is coming -- the Almighty.'
egw eimi to a kai to w arch kai telos
Rev 21:6
and He said to me, 'It hath been done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End;
I, to him who is thirsting, will give of the fountain of the water of the life freely;
Rev 22:13
I am the Alpha and the Omega -- the Beginning and End -- the First and the Last.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

The question is NOT irrelevant and NOT a redirection! Aionios is aionios is aionios!

because you say so...got it.

so, according to you, the eternal life that Jesus' promises here is going to come to an end at some point as you don't believe He is speaking of a never ending time period....ok.

good luck with your new religion.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

because you say so...got it.
so, according to you, the eternal life that Jesus' promises here is going to come to an end at some point as you don't believe He is speaking of a never ending time period....ok.good luck with your new religion.

Jesus brought a "new living religion" to the 1st century OC Mosaic Jews living in the shadow of death and the grave....they just need to embrace it........

Luke 5:37
"And no one is casting young/neon <3501> wine into Old/palaiouV<3820> skins, if yet no surely shall be ruined the young wine of the skins,
and it shall be being poured-out and its skin shall be perishing.
38 but young wine into New/kainouV <2537> skins is to be cast and both are preserved together.
39 And no one drinking Old immediately is willing young,
for he is saying, 'for the the Old is kind/mellow'".

Hebrews 8
8 "For faulting to-them He is saying 'behold! days are coming is saying Lord and I shall-be-together-finishing/sun-telesw <4931> (5692) upon the house of Israel and upon the house of Judah a New/kainhn<2537> Covenant, [Jeremiah 31:31]
13 in the to be saying `New<2537>,' He hath made Old the first.
The yet being aged and being obsolete nigh of disappearance.
[Revelation 14:8/18:8/]
========
Act 25:19
“but had some questions against him about their own religion and about a certain Jesus, who had died, whom Paul affirmed to be alive.
Jas 1:27
Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.
================================

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Jesus brought a "new living religion" to the 1st century OC Mosaic Jews living in the shadow of death and the grave....they just need to embrace it........

Luke 5:37
"And no one is casting young/neon <3501> wine into Old/palaiouV<3820> skins, if yet no surely shall be ruined the young wine of the skins,
and it shall be being poured-out and its skin shall be perishing.
38 but young wine into New/kainouV <2537> skins is to be cast and both are preserved together.
39 And no one drinking Old palaion immediately is willing young, for he is saying, 'for the the Old is kind/mellow'".

Hebrews 8
8 "For faulting to-them He is saying 'behold! days are coming is saying Lord and I shall-be-together-finishing/sun-telesw <4931> (5692) upon the house of Israel and upon the house of Judah a New/kainhn<2537> Covenant, [Jeremiah 31:31]
13 in the to be saying `New<2537>,' He hath made Old the first.
The yet being aged and being obsolete nigh of disappearance.
[Revelation 14:8/18:8/]
========
Act 25:19
“but had some questions against him about their own religion and about a certain Jesus, who had died, whom Paul affirmed to be alive.
Jas 1:27
Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.
================================

….kthx