The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

[Hillsage]

Yes, I have always understood Matt.10:28 as referring to God destroying us. (annihilationism)

I don't know that the 'soul' dying is annihilation. I believe the sinful flesh decaying/"perishing"/"corruption" is for the "sinful flesh" bodies including the brain/flesh is maybe annihilated.

I view the soul as being our personal identity as well as our mind/will/emotions. As if our brain were a computer hard drive and the soul is the data on it. The data can be transferred from one place to another, like a computer hard drive. I think that is what is happening in a NDE. The soul/mind is operating outside of the brain.

I believe the silver cord is most usually associated with our spirit and not our soul. And out of body or NDE may just be the same thing IMO.

ECC 12:5 they are afraid also of what is high, and terrors are in the way; the almond tree blossoms, the grasshopper drags itself along and desire fails; because man goes to his eternal home, and the mourners go about the streets; 6 before the silver cord is snapped, or the golden bowl is broken, or the pitcher is broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern, 7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

If your "cord" gets severed in occult out of body practices, I believe you're dead....not just a vegetable and blithering idiot.

If you had a brain transplant, who would you be? -- lol

Frankensaint...I hope...I think, I hope....to heck with hope, I'm just going to faith it til I make it...whatever IT is.

This post has a lot of 'not sure about what I'm telling you'. But I've studied it all.

 

[Saint Steven]

This post has a lot of 'not sure about what I'm telling you'. But I've studied it all.

There isn't a lot of established fact on this subject.
I know the medical industry is taking NDEs seriously. They are interviewing patients that indicate experiences, rather than just shrugging it off. They are putting "targets" in rooms to see if those claiming a NDE saw them. Items that can only be seen from above.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Please remember that my position on Damnationism, Annihilationism and Universalism is that all three are supported in the Bible, which makes no sense. (they are in conflict) Therefore, I don't expect that my discussion will be any more sensible. The burden of proof is on those who claim it makes sense. Here we are at page 147 and I have yet to see a solid argument. Compelling points, yes; solid argument, no.

I believe, besides my twenty-some Conclusions, that to make a solid argument here, I would need to copy and paste my entire 200+ page manuscript here. Others might have long books by Universalists that they could quote. It might get unwieldy.

 

[Lazarus Short]

There isn't a lot of established fact on this subject.
I know the medical industry is taking NDEs seriously. They are interviewing patients that indicate experiences, rather than just shrugging it off. They are putting "targets" in rooms to see if those claiming a NDE saw them. Items that can only be seen from above.

Seen from above...like Nazca Lines?

 

[Saint Steven]

I believe, besides my twenty-some Conclusions, that to make a solid argument here, I would need to copy and paste my entire 200+ page manuscript here. Others might have long books by Universalists that they could quote. It might get unwieldy.

The fact that this subject requires reams of defense to explain it makes it look suspect to me. It needs to be boiled down to four or five key points with biblical support. IMHO

You guys probably have the idea that I am asking for more information, when I am actually asking for less.

clar·i·fy
VERB
make (a statement or situation) less confused and more clearly comprehensible.

 

[Saint Steven]

Seen from above...like Nazca Lines?

Yes. But not THAT far above. - lol

Although I suppose they could gauge how far up the NDEer went if they put targets on top of the hospital roof and in the parking lots.

 

[Hillsage]

It's a jungle out there.
Bible, Bible, who's got the Bible?

I’m more concerned with who’s got “the Spirit of truth that guides you into the truth.”

 

[FineLinen]

I’m more concerned with who’s got “the Spirit of truth that guides you into the truth.”

"Let all who have ears give heed to what the Spirit is saying to the Churches. To him who overcomes I will give the privilege of eating the fruit of the Tree of Life, which is in the Paradise of God."

Mark 4:12 so that, 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven.'"

"Hear this, O foolish and senseless people, who have eyes but do not see, who have ears but do not hear."

"Bring out a people who have eyes but are blind, and who have ears but are deaf."

“Are your ears awake? Listen. Listen to the Wind Words, the Spirit blowing through the churches. I’m about to call each conqueror to dinner. I’m spreading a banquet of Tree-of-Life fruit, a supper plucked from God’s orchard.”

 

[Saint Steven]

I’m more concerned with who’s got “the Spirit of truth that guides you into the truth.”

The two are connected though.
The Spirit reminds us of what we have already heard/read.

John 14:26
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

1 Corinthians 14:29
Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.

1 Corinthians 2:13
This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.

 

[FineLinen]

"God's free gift immeasurably outweighs the transgression. For if through the transgression of the one individual the mass of mankind have died, infinitely greater is the generosity with which God's grace, and the gift given in His grace which found expression in the one man Jesus Christ, have been bestowed on the mass of mankind."

 

[Saint Steven]

How does Universalism effect the message of the gospel?
It seems to bring the words in bold into question.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 1:11-13
He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

John 5:24
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

 

[Saint Steven]

"Bring out a people who have eyes but are blind, and who have ears but are deaf."

Romans 12:3
... Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought...

 

[FineLinen]

We welcome the Christ who ministers to the disobedient dead.

“We all must die and are like water spilled on the ground that cannot be gathered up again, but the Lord does not take away life, instead He devises ways for the banished to be restored.”

The risen Christ preaches to the dead

“Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison; which once were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water… for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”

"Who shall render an account unto him who is holding in readiness to judge living and dead; for, unto this end, even unto the dead, was the glad-message delivered,—in order that they might be judged, indeed, according to men in flesh, but might live according to God in spirit." -Rotherham Emphasized-

Dead=

nekros= a corpse (from nekus)=

Breathed his last/ lifeless.

Deceased/ departed.

Destitute of life/ without life.

Inanimate.

Disobedient= apeitheo=

Not to allow one’s self to be persuaded.

To refuse or withhold belief & obedience.

To refuse belief and obedience.

Not to comply with.

Live= zao=

To be alive with resurrection life.

 

[Wrangler]

Some do not have lips to speak, which prevents ears from hearing.
Should we blame the ears for that?

Yes for it has been spoken many times.

 

[HatGuy]

How does Universalism effect the message of the gospel?
It seems to bring the words in bold into question.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 1:11-13
He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

John 5:24
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Sucks to come into this conversation half-way to 200 pages, but anyway, are you thinking of pluralism here rather than universalism? Or has that been covered already?

 

[FineLinen]

Sucks to come into this conversation half-way to 200 pages, but anyway, are you thinking of pluralism here rather than universalism? Or has that been covered already?

Dear HatGuy: Better late than never. For me, the universal restoration of the all is rooted in what the prophets of the Most High have declared from the earliest ages, unprecedented newness, reaching to the entire dimensions of the heavens, the earth & the underworld. Nothing is left the same as it once was.

Regarding "pluralism": not mentioned in the pages before us. For those interested, the definition=

Definition of PLURALISM

 

[Wrangler]

How does Universalism effect the message of the gospel?
It seems to bring the words in bold into question.

Are you seriously saying this question has not been repeatedly addressed after 140 pages?

Sadly, it seems in my short time here that you repeat questions that have already been repeatedly answered. I'll address just one on your list; John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Let me start by getting you to explain how this verse goes against Universalism?

 

[Saint Steven]

Are you seriously saying this question has not been repeatedly addressed after 140 pages?

Sadly, it seems in my short time here that you repeat questions that have already been repeatedly answered. I'll address just one on your list; John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Let me start by getting you to explain how this verse goes against Universalism?

Universalism says it doesn't matter what you believe. The verse (John 3:16) says it does matter what you believe.

 

[Saint Steven]

Laugh if you want, but if I was a Hindu, what does Universalism say will become of me? Does it matter what you believe? (nope) Not according to Universalism.

 

[Wrangler]

Universalism says it doesn't matter what you believe. The verse (John 3:16) says it does matter what you believe.

This is an uncoordinated, unresponsive reply. DO NOT MERELY STATE A CONTRADICTION. I said my daughter is under age. Now I am saying she is not under age.

The question was how does John 3:16 go against Universalism?