Why all people are not saved?

[concretecamper]

Is the best answer: “Only God knows and you will have to ask Him when you get to heaven”?

Could God not save anyone and be true to His nature?

Could God save everyone and be true to His nature?

According to some, God could just as easily and righteously save your neighbor as you, so would you be just as happy or even happier if God saved your neighbor instead of you, since you are to Love your neighbor as Christ Loves them? How is this selection method not arbitrary?

God is the epitome of Love and part of the definition of Love is: 1 Cor. 13:5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs, so how can God not save some without it being self-seeking on His part? God would thus be selfless, so not saving some has to be to the benefit of others, so how does some going to hell benefit anyone?

According to Jesus we need to be Baptized and we need to eat His flesh and drink His blood. These are 2 of many things He commanded. He did warn that the gate is narrow.

 

[bling]

God has promised to save those who do His will (Matthew 7:21) obey His Son (Hebrews 5:9) who obey the gospel of Christ (2 Thessalonians 1:8). Since God's nature is that He cannot lie then He cannot--will not go back on His promises. Those then they do not obey, either because they never heard the gospel or they heard it and rejected it, will be lost not having had their sins remitted, forgiven.

New Testament scripture does tell the Christian what they need to be do.

The New Testament letters are not addressed to nonbelieving sinners, so where do you find New Testament scripture addressing those who never learned about Christ?

Do you believe babies or children are hell bound, since they have not done what the New Testament says they need to do?

When does a person become a mature adult?

I see babies and others who die not fulfilling their earthly objective because they died early, going to heaven lacking.

If a nonbelieving sinner turns to the creator of the universe sincerely asking for help, will God help him?

 

[bling]

I believe God created the human race knowing we would become a corrupt species in Adam. And he uses this to make himself know. Without sin there is no mercy, or justice, or wrath, or sovereignty to be seen in God. So I believe he arbitrarily chose as many to magnify his mercy as the revelation of his wrath would allow.

Wow, the Christian God is not “known” by most people and if that was God’s “reason” for “arbitrarily” sending some people to hell, there are much better ways to make Himself known to everyone. God was Loving, merciful, just, and sovereign prior to Adam and Eve sinning in the Garden.

Why does God need to show his “wrath” to man, since He existed with Christ and the Spirit prior to needing to show His wrath to them?

So God’s Love is not strong enough to limit His wrath and God’s wrath limits God’s Love? Where are you finding that in scripture?

God’s wrath against sin would help humans quickly choose to accept God’s help if they could make that choice of their own free will.

 

[bling]

It takes a chaotic mind to believe in a chaotic world. To accept the notion that things happen without cause is the product of a mind content to come to conclusions void of supporting reason. God's creation did not wrest the reins of reality from him and determine to interject effects without prior causes. God is the only first cause. There is no outcome which he did not know from the beginning of time, and there is no problem for which he has no solution. If history concludes in such a way, then it is the destination toward which God has sent it.

We have people, here, who want to believe themselves followers of God, who don't like where God leads. They don't like the destination. Rather than blame this misdirection on God, they blame it on a higher authority called Free Will. They follow God, and God follows this higher thing called Free Will, and the group marches boldy onward to the undesired destination. And when they get to that destination, they have something other than God to criticise. In reality, there is no mystery guide called Free Will, and God is following nothing higher than himself. We arrive at the destination, and judgment of the rightness of that destination is not ours to make. We are not the judges over the choices that God makes. Advocates of Free Will cling to the right to stand in judgement over the destination, and they would stand in judgment over what brought us there, rather than trust in God and submit to his right to do as he chooses with what he has made.

A lot of this is just a strawman argument, an argument I am not making, but will address it.

First off: I never suggested God is sitting back and allowing a chaotic world nor am I suggesting God does not know everything that will happen and has happened, but the question is how and what is God doing?

From everything I read in scripture and see in this world shows God very much involved in doing and allowing everything that happens to happen to help willing individuals fulfill their earthly objective.

We can talk about our future being predestined by God, but as soon as we say our future is also future for God we are limiting God by time. God does and will talk about things being in the future but that is our future.

Christians talk about: “God being outside of time”, which is not beyond the thinking of the atheist or agnostic since:

For the last 100 years people have been trying to disprove “The Theory of Relativity” and yet nothing has disagreed with the theory and all experiments have supported relativity. If time is relative how relative would time be for God, who possible even created “time”?

If God is not outside of time and there is an infinite amount of time before man is created, then man has not been created, since an infinite amount of time has not finished? (This suggests God would be outside of time.)

There has also been hypothesized, with nothing being shown yet, that if time is “warped”, there could be possible “wormholes” or something like a wormhole going between two different times.

God could have his own sequencing of events, but God would not be limited by human time.

It is difficult to think about God being “outside of our time” with no before or after for God, but this subject requires us to think.

This would present an alternative to how God has perfect foreknowledge:

It should not be hard for you to imagine time being relative and warped, since that is what science has been showing, so one way God would “know” everything is by God at the end of man’s time sending back the whole history of man (which includes all the free will choices man made [it is historic at that point]) to Himself at the beginning of time, so the God at the beginning of man’s time knows all man’s free will choices throughout time as purely historical events and not even God can change history.

So how does God know for certainty what man will do in the future and still allow man to make free will choices; seems to be a dilemma, since the “future” is set by God knowing the future? The “future” is only “future” as far as man is concerned, since the future is set by being pure “history” as far as God is concerned. God is not forcing or setting man’s “future” free will choices, but it is man himself setting the man’s future, by the free will choices man “did make” in the future (which is history for God).

Try playing God for a minute: If you got information sent back to you in a wormhole from the future that told you perfectly the free will choice a person will make in China one hour from now and you had no way of contacting that person in the next hour, would that mean they did not make a free will choice because you perfectly knew their choice ahead of time?

God could operate in a similar fashion, but He could contact the person, but since He always does the best thing there is to do; there would be no changing what He does/did.

Do you feel God does not have the power to allow mature adults to make a very few truly autonomous free will choices to allow willing humans to have Godly type Love and thus become like God Himself in that God is Love?

This is just an introduction.

 

[lsume]

Not sure what you are saying here?

That Christ is the only way to Heaven.

 

[bling]

God is not "the epitome of love", God IS love. There is a difference.

God is also not a human being and is subordinate to no creature so to put human qualities on God is incorrect at the outset. It can help us some to understand His nature, but at one point we have to realize He's God.

God can be love AND just. God can be merciful and still withhold his mercy in the judgment.

God is God. It seems your first mistake is to forget that one basic point.

God does things specifically for His Glory, something we as human beings and children of God are not supposed to.

Isaiah 48:9-11

"For my name’s sake I defer my anger, for the sake of my praise I restrain it for you, that I may not cut you off. Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tried you in the furnace of affliction. For my own sake, for my own sake, I do it, for how should my name be profaned? My glory I will not give to another."

What applies to God doesn't apply to us. We don't do things (or we shouldn't) do things for our Glory, but God most certainly can and does.. why? Because He's God!

Stop trying to bring God to your own level, and you might understand God a little more. He's not your equal. He's not even your better.

I agree, we might have a totally different concept of God.

God in scripture and with Christ living here on earth, has defined “Love” (a very unique Godly type Love which is selfless, unconditional, and always doing stuff to help those willing to accept God’s help), so when God tells us “God is Love” we can know what it means. How is God’s Love not the epitome of Love, how could it be greater?

God does talk about doing somethings for His sake, but it also is for some human’s sake, so if what is done is for the sake of at least some humans it is also for God’s sake.

Isaiah 48:9-11 "For my name’s sake I defer my anger, for the sake of my praise I restrain it for you, that I may not cut you off. Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tried you in the furnace of affliction. For my own sake, for my own sake, I do it, for how should my name be profaned? My glory I will not give to another.”

God is not doing stuff to just bring Him Glory, but the Jews need to be shown to be evil at the time, sent into Babylon and later a better group will come forthwith Christ in the end.

What God does for His sake is for our sake.

Part of the reason Christ came to earth was to show us how deity living unquenched in a human body can act, so this is our example of how we can be like Deity on earth, but not how to make Deity human.

You are not addressing the questions in the OP?

 

[bling]

That Christ is the only way to Heaven.

Was that true for the people before Christ came to earth?

 

[lsume]

Was that true for the people before Christ came to earth?

Yes, everyone destined for Heaven needs Christ to get there. All we can do is pray for help in time of need and try to be as obedient to God’s Word as we can be.

 

[lsume]

Not sure what you are saying here?

Death lost its power over man once Christ had sacrificed Himself. Thank God The Father.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I agree, we might have a totally different concept of God.

God in scripture and with Christ living here on earth, has defined “Love” (a very unique Godly type Love which is selfless, unconditional, and always doing stuff to help those willing to accept God’s help), so when God tells us “God is Love” we can know what it means. How is God’s Love not the epitome of Love, how could it be greater?

God does talk about doing somethings for His sake, but it also is for some human’s sake, so if what is done is for the sake of at least some humans it is also for God’s sake.

Isaiah 48:9-11 "For my name’s sake I defer my anger, for the sake of my praise I restrain it for you, that I may not cut you off. Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tried you in the furnace of affliction. For my own sake, for my own sake, I do it, for how should my name be profaned? My glory I will not give to another.”

God is not doing stuff to just bring Him Glory, but the Jews need to be shown to be evil at the time, sent into Babylon and later a better group will come forthwith Christ in the end.

What God does for His sake is for our sake.

Part of the reason Christ came to earth was to show us how deity living unquenched in a human body can act, so this is our example of how we can be like Deity on earth, but not how to make Deity human.

You are not addressing the questions in the OP?

I can't address the questions in the OP because your using the word "God" for something that is under a law you created.. that's not a God at
all..

When Christ came down from Heaven we see Him in human form, teaching us and giving us a path of reconciliation to God.

That only shows a part of the nature of God, not the whole. Because there is a second understanding of the nature of God, that is God is all His Glory, His majesty, and his Judgment..

The only physical description of Jesus in any identifiable form is found in Revelations 1, and that is because it's the only one that describes Jesus in majesty. Its not the description of a humble human..

When Jesus walked the earth He came to divide (Luke 12:49-56). The Word of God penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.(Hebrews 4:12)

Your so caught up in a singular definition of love alone, that your missing Christ.

"And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man,dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades."

This description tells you about Christ. "Love" doesn't cancel out God's other qualities, rather, God has many qualities that together create a complex whole.

 

[NoahSK]

He put the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden. So before man sinned evil existed and was in the plan. It was not a perfect environment with the potential of evil and Satan present there to tempt them. God knew what was going to happen, but it was necessary. We could not appreciate and know good, which are all the attributes of God, unless we knew their opposites. Unless we experienced evil, we really would not know and appreciate His love, mercy, forgiveness, joy, peace, love, kindness, goodness, patience, grace, faith, death, etc. All these things were foreign to Adam and Eve and would be to us.
When we are afflicted with evil and good comes along, we understand. We yearn for comfort, help, relief from pain and suffering or hunger and when we receive it, we know and appreciate it. We yearn for God, for good. Before the Fall, Adam and Eve were oblivious to that. They found out the hard way - that was the only way.
They were responsible for their sin and we inherited it.
The atonement for sin requires a blood sacrifice. He made the rules and so that's what happened. Blood sacrifices were made up unto the Savior arrived and Jesus died for our sins.
But we are required to believe the story He told us, who He is and that He rose on the third day. He does not force us to love Him, but He stands at the door and knocks. Whosoever opens the door and invites Him in, He will come in and sup with you. What's for dinner? He is the bread of life and you need to eat His flesh and drink His blood - symbolically of course.
He knows who will open the door and who will not. He draws all men to Himself but many resist and rebel, choose to go their own way. They are without excuse. (Romans 1)
Sin needs to be judged _ or forgiven. So, Judgment Day is coming and many will be judged. It's already set. He knows the end from the beginning. Judgment Day will come and many will perish. In our physical dimension where time exists, we can't comprehend how knowing the future is possible. God operates outside of our physical dimensions. So, it's already a done deal in His realm -- so accept that.
The wages of sin is death. That is both physical and spiritual death. So if there wasn't any death in the end for anyone, that would not be a true statement ... capisce?
People stumble over the concept of eternal damnation. I don't, because I think it is a theological error on the Church's part to accept this notion. Eternal is an English word that comes from aion or aionios. This word has variable meanings. When it is applied to our temporal, physical realm, it means ages, generations, epochs, lifetimes. When it refers to God, His domain, it means without beginning and without end. Here's the key at the end of the book, "All former things will pass away." The first earth and the first heaven will pass away. All created things will pass away, so if Hades and death are cast into the Lake of Fire and destroyed, what does that mean? Destroy means to put an end to. You can't destroy something over and over. Paper burns and that's it, it turns to ashes. People will burn and then that will be the end of them. There will be no more pain and suffering. Think of that statement. This is not referring to those in heaven, we already know that. It must mean that there will be no more pain and suffering anywhere. The wages of sin is death and death will be destroyed. So the punishment is finite, not infinite.
This begs the question: Why would God require an eternal punishment of torment for let's say someone who lived for 20 years in sin, then died without knowing Christ? Does that sound fair? Even 80 years of sin shouldn't require such punishment. God is fair. We've read the book and it demonstrates His fairness in judgment, punishment and was always for a temporal period.
But now I opened up a can of worms and many will wrestle with this, they have for millennia. Let them. If God knows who the reprobate are, and is using them for our purpose to know evil, so that we can draw near to what is good, be drawn to Him, then He will simply discard the vessel when He is done with it. Does not the potter have the right to fashion the clay for a particular use, whatever that may be?

I think your interpretation of hell is extremely flawed. What you just described is annihilationism, though I'm sure you know this term. Here is an article on the topic: Is annihilationism biblical?. Let me paraphrase a part of the article that I think makes a lot of sense:

"Hell is perhaps a primary reason why God sent Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for our sins. Being “extinguished” after death is no fate to dread, but an eternity in hell most definitely is. Jesus’ death was an infinite death, paying our infinite sin debt so that we would not have to pay it in hell for eternity (2 Corinthians 5:21). When we place our faith in Him, we are saved, forgiven, cleansed, and promised an eternal home in heaven. But if we reject God’s gift of eternal life, we will face the eternal consequences of that decision."

See? Atheists, for example, already believe that we cease to exist after death. What would be their motivation to become a Christian and follow Jesus if there weren't any consequences for doing otherwise? Why would Jesus speak so strongly about hell if it wasn't that big of a deal? Just my thoughts. That website has many other articles that address the main issues people have with hell.

 

[def]

New Testament scripture does tell the Christian what they need to be do.

The New Testament letters are not addressed to nonbelieving sinners, so where do you find New Testament scripture addressing those who never learned about Christ?

Do you believe babies or children are hell bound, since they have not done what the New Testament says they need to do?

When does a person become a mature adult?

I see babies and others who die not fulfilling their earthly objective because they died early, going to heaven lacking.

If a nonbelieving sinner turns to the creator of the universe sincerely asking for help, will God help him?

Romans 2:14-16, their conscience bear witness accusing or defending them.

 

[NoahSK]

New Testament scripture does tell the Christian what they need to be do.

The New Testament letters are not addressed to nonbelieving sinners, so where do you find New Testament scripture addressing those who never learned about Christ?

Do you believe babies or children are hell bound, since they have not done what the New Testament says they need to do?

When does a person become a mature adult?

I see babies and others who die not fulfilling their earthly objective because they died early, going to heaven lacking.

If a nonbelieving sinner turns to the creator of the universe sincerely asking for help, will God help him?

A few relevant articles:
What happens to those who have never heard about Jesus?
Where do I find the age of accountability in the Bible? What happens to babies and young children when they die?
Do mentally ill people go to heaven? Does God show mercy to those who are mentally challenged, disabled, or handicapped?

 

[Christina Stange]

Is the best answer: “Only God knows and you will have to ask Him when you get to heaven”?

Could God not save anyone and be true to His nature?

Could God save everyone and be true to His nature?

According to some, God could just as easily and righteously save your neighbor as you, so would you be just as happy or even happier if God saved your neighbor instead of you, since you are to Love your neighbor as Christ Loves them? How is this selection method not arbitrary?

God is the epitome of Love and part of the definition of Love is: 1 Cor. 13:5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs, so how can God not save some without it being self-seeking on His part? God would thus be selfless, so not saving some has to be to the benefit of others, so how does some going to hell benefit anyone?

Psalm 119:165 says Great peace have they which love Thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
Also
Revelation 21:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

So according to what God's word says all who offend will not be in heaven or it wouldn't be heaven right? Heaven is where we NEVER have to worry about evil. Only God knows everyone's hearts and intentions in all that we do. All that offend will be worthy of the second death. Jesus told us in Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
So this is how some going to hell benefit us.

 

[Dave L]

Wow, the Christian God is not “known” by most people and if that was God’s “reason” for “arbitrarily” sending some people to hell, there are much better ways to make Himself known to everyone. God was Loving, merciful, just, and sovereign prior to Adam and Eve sinning in the Garden.

Why does God need to show his “wrath” to man, since He existed with Christ and the Spirit prior to needing to show His wrath to them?

So God’s Love is not strong enough to limit His wrath and God’s wrath limits God’s Love? Where are you finding that in scripture?

God’s wrath against sin would help humans quickly choose to accept God’s help if they could make that choice of their own free will.

How can you know anything about God apart from the contrast of sin? What is love without hate?

 

[Christina Stange]

Is the best answer: “Only God knows and you will have to ask Him when you get to heaven”?

Could God not save anyone and be true to His nature?

Could God save everyone and be true to His nature?

According to some, God could just as easily and righteously save your neighbor as you, so would you be just as happy or even happier if God saved your neighbor instead of you, since you are to Love your neighbor as Christ Loves them? How is this selection method not arbitrary?

God is the epitome of Love and part of the definition of Love is: 1 Cor. 13:5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs, so how can God not save some without it being self-seeking on His part? God would thus be selfless, so not saving some has to be to the benefit of others, so how does some going to hell benefit anyone?

 

[Christina Stange]

Psalm 119:165 says Great peace have they which love Thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
Also
Revelation 21:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

So according to what God's word says all who offend will not be in heaven or it wouldn't be heaven right? Heaven is where we NEVER have to worry about evil. Only God knows everyone's hearts and intentions in all that we do. All that offend will be worthy of the second death. Jesus told us in Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
So this is how some going to hell benefit us.

 

[-57]

Faith.

How does one gain or lose faith....to the point of rejecting or accepting Christ?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Is the best answer: “Only God knows and you will have to ask Him when you get to heaven”?

Could God not save anyone and be true to His nature?

Could God save everyone and be true to His nature?

According to some, God could just as easily and righteously save your neighbor as you, so would you be just as happy or even happier if God saved your neighbor instead of you, since you are to Love your neighbor as Christ Loves them? How is this selection method not arbitrary?

God is the epitome of Love and part of the definition of Love is: 1 Cor. 13:5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs, so how can God not save some without it being self-seeking on His part? God would thus be selfless, so not saving some has to be to the benefit of others, so how does some going to hell benefit anyone?

Anyone who repents can be saved. The problem is not everyone is willing to repent. Everyone is ultimately responsible for their own condemnation. God does not pick and choose who will be saved and who will burn.

 

[BNR32FAN]

How does this conclusion sit with...

1 John 12
But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.…

and

Rom 9:19
One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it,“Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?…
22 What if God, intending to show His wrath and make His power known, bore with great patience the vessels of His wrath, prepared for destruction? 23 What if He did this to make the riches of His glory known to the vessels of His mercy, whom He prepared in advance for glory...

The first reference can be understood to mean that God alone does the rebirthing but man does the choosing.

The second reference is not so easy to explain and suggests that Grace underpins the ability to decide to believe.

In Romans 9 Paul suggests that God endured with much patience on the vessels of destruction which would indicate that God was patiently giving them a chance to repent and foresaw that they wouldn’t therefore He made examples of them.