Why all people are not saved?

[bling]

Is the best answer: “Only God knows and you will have to ask Him when you get to heaven”?

Could God not save anyone and be true to His nature?

Could God save everyone and be true to His nature?

According to some, God could just as easily and righteously save your neighbor as you, so would you be just as happy or even happier if God saved your neighbor instead of you, since you are to Love your neighbor as Christ Loves them? How is this selection method not arbitrary?

God is the epitome of Love and part of the definition of Love is: 1 Cor. 13:5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs, so how can God not save some without it being self-seeking on His part? God would thus be selfless, so not saving some has to be to the benefit of others, so how does some going to hell benefit anyone?

 

[Grip Docility]

Is the best answer: “Only God knows and you will have to ask Him when you get to heaven”?

Could God not save anyone and be true to His nature?

Could God save everyone and be true to His nature?

According to some, God could just as easily and righteously save your neighbor as you, so would you be just as happy or even happier if God saved your neighbor instead of you, since you are to Love your neighbor as Christ Loves them? How is this selection method not arbitrary?

God is the epitome of Love and part of the definition of Love is: 1 Cor. 13:5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs, so how can God not save some without it being self-seeking on His part? God would thus be selfless, so not saving some has to be to the benefit of others, so how does some going to hell benefit anyone?

IMO... you nailed it when you emboldened “it is not self seeking”. By 1 John 4:8 we know God is Love and 1 Corinthians 13 is the most accurate depiction of God’s “Psychology” so to speak. I preached a sermon on this once.

God also does not dishonor anyone!

God honors the heart/Will of Creation that He biblically endowed it with. This means that God is not the one that desires ANY are lost.

Infact, 2 Peter 3:9 says God “Desires” none should perish but ALL come to repentance.

This means that some are lost because they are lost of their own Will and God selflessly honors their will. It is within the individual that the iniquity of rejecting God, trading the Creator for the Creation arises.

God desires only GOOD for His Creation but is so Loving He is willing to honor the will of His creation to the dismay of His very own HEART.

What does this mean? It means that God has gone, will Go... ALL out towards each soul that has been, is and will be!

How far did He go?

This Far!

 

[eleos1954]

Is the best answer: “Only God knows and you will have to ask Him when you get to heaven”?

Could God not save anyone and be true to His nature?

Could God save everyone and be true to His nature?

According to some, God could just as easily and righteously save your neighbor as you, so would you be just as happy or even happier if God saved your neighbor instead of you, since you are to Love your neighbor as Christ Loves them? How is this selection method not arbitrary?

God is the epitome of Love and part of the definition of Love is: 1 Cor. 13:5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs, so how can God not save some without it being self-seeking on His part? God would thus be selfless, so not saving some has to be to the benefit of others, so how does some going to hell benefit anyone?

He honors everyone's choices, He does not force anyone. Those who end up not receiving eternal life is due to the choices they made.

If He were to make those choices ... then that would be self-seeking.

One of these days, the Lord will look down on earth and see this (everyone has made their choices) ... and then He will return.

Revelation 22

King James Bible
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

 

[Grip Docility]

He honors everyone's choices, He does not force anyone. Those who end up not receiving eternal life is due to the choices they made.

If He were to make those choices ... then that would be self-seeking.

One of these days, the Lord will look down on earth and see this (everyone has made their choices) ... and then He will return.

Revelation 22

King James Bible
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Revelation 22:20

 

[Carl Emerson]

IMO... you nailed it when you emboldened “it is not self seeking”. By 1 John 4:8 we know God is Love and 1 Corinthians 13 is the most accurate depiction of God’s “Psychology” so to speak. I preached a sermon on this once.

God also does not dishonor anyone!

God honors the heart/Will of Creation that He biblically endowed it with. This means that God is not the one that desires ANY are lost.

Infact, 2 Peter 3:9 says God “Desires” none should perish but ALL come to repentance.

This means that some are lost because they are lost of their own Will and God selflessly honors their will. It is within the individual that the iniquity of rejecting God, trading the Creator for the Creation arises.

God desires only GOOD for His Creation but is so Loving He is willing to honor the will of His creation to the dismay of His very own HEART.

What does this mean? It means that God has gone, will Go... ALL out towards each soul that has been, is and will be!

How far did He go?

This Far!

How does this conclusion sit with...

1 John 12
But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.…

and

Rom 9:19
One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it,“Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?…
22 What if God, intending to show His wrath and make His power known, bore with great patience the vessels of His wrath, prepared for destruction? 23 What if He did this to make the riches of His glory known to the vessels of His mercy, whom He prepared in advance for glory...

The first reference can be understood to mean that God alone does the rebirthing but man does the choosing.

The second reference is not so easy to explain and suggests that Grace underpins the ability to decide to believe.

 

[Dave L]

Is the best answer: “Only God knows and you will have to ask Him when you get to heaven”?

Could God not save anyone and be true to His nature?

Could God save everyone and be true to His nature?

According to some, God could just as easily and righteously save your neighbor as you, so would you be just as happy or even happier if God saved your neighbor instead of you, since you are to Love your neighbor as Christ Loves them? How is this selection method not arbitrary?

God is the epitome of Love and part of the definition of Love is: 1 Cor. 13:5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs, so how can God not save some without it being self-seeking on His part? God would thus be selfless, so not saving some has to be to the benefit of others, so how does some going to hell benefit anyone?

I believe God created the human race knowing we would become a corrupt species in Adam. And he uses this to make himself know. Without sin there is no mercy, or justice, or wrath, or sovereignty to be seen in God. So I believe he arbitrarily chose as many to magnify his mercy as the revelation of his wrath would allow.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Is the best answer: “Only God knows and you will have to ask Him when you get to heaven”?

Could God not save anyone and be true to His nature?

Could God save everyone and be true to His nature?

According to some, God could just as easily and righteously save your neighbor as you, so would you be just as happy or even happier if God saved your neighbor instead of you, since you are to Love your neighbor as Christ Loves them? How is this selection method not arbitrary?

God is the epitome of Love and part of the definition of Love is: 1 Cor. 13:5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs, so how can God not save some without it being self-seeking on His part? God would thus be selfless, so not saving some has to be to the benefit of others, so how does some going to hell benefit anyone?

God so willed that His relationship with all humanity be restored through His Son Jesus Christ of Nazareth. It is up to each individual to come to the understanding the giving of this gift and receive His Holy Spirit. The work has been done for ALL, yet only a few will find and want it. Salvation comes through Jesus Christ and not through a predetermined selection process.
Blessings

 

[Grip Docility]

How does this conclusion sit with...

1 John 12
But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.…

and

Rom 9:19
One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it,“Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?…
22 What if God, intending to show His wrath and make His power known, bore with great patience the vessels of His wrath, prepared for destruction? 23 What if He did this to make the riches of His glory known to the vessels of His mercy, whom He prepared in advance for glory...

The first reference can be understood to mean that God alone does the rebirthing but man does the choosing.

The second reference is not so easy to explain and suggests that Grace underpins the ability to decide to believe.

In Sola Fide, you and I are kindred. In matters of God’s provision of genuine endowment of Creations Autonomy, we disagree.

You have rightly noted what is plainly within the first scripture quote in anticipation of my reply.

IMO, As for the Romans 9 Determinist spin... it is a specific usage of Mankind that is being referred to... that has nothing to do with election to damnation or salvation, but everything to do with some having Honor in life as they serve God and others appearing Dishonored.

The very rhetoric and Greek refers to a clay vessel that is like a chamber pot and a clay vessel that is like a lamp. Both serve a purpose and neither was made for Wickedness but to fill a need. If the potter smashes the chamber pot, grinds it, rewaters it and reforms it into a lamp or eating dish, it is worthy to be used as such.

It is not the business of the Chamber pot or lamp what the Potter does with His clay.

The refiners fire and the Potters Kiln are the matter of discussion and Romans 9-11 follows Paul’s diatribe about a specific people that were becoming more and more dishonored. Yet the diatribe builds to an unexpected conclusion in Romans 11... and cannot be separated from the argumentative direction and foundational building of Paul’s precision diatribe.

If one desires to discuss and evaluate determinism versus autonomy endowed by the Creator...

Spoiler

Determinism is not for me: Scientia Media / Sovereign Knowledge / Free Will

All Love in Jesus Christ to you.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

It takes a chaotic mind to believe in a chaotic world. To accept the notion that things happen without cause is the product of a mind content to come to conclusions void of supporting reason. God's creation did not wrest the reins of reality from him and determine to interject effects without prior causes. God is the only first cause. There is no outcome which he did not know from the beginning of time, and there is no problem for which he has no solution. If history concludes in such a way, then it is the destination toward which God has sent it.

We have people, here, who want to believe themselves followers of God, who don't like where God leads. They don't like the destination. Rather than blame this misdirection on God, they blame it on a higher authority called Free Will. They follow God, and God follows this higher thing called Free Will, and the group marches boldy onward to the undesired destination. And when they get to that destination, they have something other than God to criticise. In reality, there is no mystery guide called Free Will, and God is following nothing higher than himself. We arrive at the destination, and judgment of the rightness of that destination is not ours to make. We are not the judges over the choices that God makes. Advocates of Free Will cling to the right to stand in judgement over the destination, and they would stand in judgment over what brought us there, rather than trust in God and submit to his right to do as he chooses with what he has made.

 

[-57]

He honors everyone's choices, He does not force anyone. Those who end up not receiving eternal life is due to the choices they made.

Romans 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls—

When I read Romans 9 I see a slight contradiction to what you posted.

 

[-57]

God so willed that His relationship with all humanity be restored through His Son Jesus Christ of Nazareth. It is up to each individual to come to the understanding the giving of this gift and receive His Holy Spirit. The work has been done for ALL, yet only a few will find and want it. Salvation comes through Jesus Christ and not through a predetermined selection process.
Blessings

Why will only a few find it?

 

[Grip Docility]

It takes a chaotic mind to believe in a chaotic world. To accept the notion that things happen without cause is the product of a mind content to come to conclusions void of supporting reason. God's creation did not wrest the reins of reality from him and determine to interject effects without prior causes. God is the only first cause. There is no outcome which he did not know from the beginning of time, and there is no problem for which he has no solution. If history concludes in such a way, then it is the destination toward which God has sent it.

We have people, here, who want to believe themselves followers of God, who don't like where God leads. They don't like the destination. Rather than blame this misdirection on God, they blame it on a higher authority called Free Will. They follow God, and God follows this higher thing called Free Will, and the group marches boldy onward to the undesired destination. And when they get to that destination, they have something other than God to criticise. In reality, there is no mystery guide called Free Will, and God is following nothing higher than himself. We arrive at the destination, and judgment of the rightness of that destination is not ours to make. We are not the judges over the choices that God makes. Advocates of Free Will cling to the right to stand in judgement over the destination, and they would stand in judgment over what brought us there, rather than trust in God and submit to his right to do as he chooses with what he has made.

God leads us to know He endowed Will that is genuine upon mankind. Even Pre-Fall, Man failed with that endowed will.

I counter argue that Man blames God for the Chaos in the world, to pawn off his guilt in being part of it. Justification and Blaming God are far from the same!

Angelic Will is autonomous as well, or Ezekiel 28 wouldn’t read as it reads and no one can deny that the Carnal namesake King was not in the Garden Of God thus the text is prophetic in the spiritual towards the “false light bearer”.

It is preposterous to grandstand a doctrine that conflates iniquity with God’s design, by saying men are making themselves God’s.

By conflating the existence of Iniquity with the Will Of The Almighty men are conflating God with men!

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Why will only a few find it?

Because many will go down the wide road instead of the narrow.These are the people who hate God.
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

 

[TheSeabass]

Is the best answer: “Only God knows and you will have to ask Him when you get to heaven”?

Could God not save anyone and be true to His nature?

Could God save everyone and be true to His nature?

According to some, God could just as easily and righteously save your neighbor as you, so would you be just as happy or even happier if God saved your neighbor instead of you, since you are to Love your neighbor as Christ Loves them? How is this selection method not arbitrary?

God is the epitome of Love and part of the definition of Love is: 1 Cor. 13:5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs, so how can God not save some without it being self-seeking on His part? God would thus be selfless, so not saving some has to be to the benefit of others, so how does some going to hell benefit anyone?

God has promised to save those who do His will (Matthew 7:21) obey His Son (Hebrews 5:9) who obey the gospel of Christ (2 Thessalonians 1:8). Since God's nature is that He cannot lie then He cannot--will not go back on His promises. Those then they do not obey, either because they never heard the gospel or they heard it and rejected it, will be lost not having had their sins remitted, forgiven.

 

[eleos1954]

Romans 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls—

When I read Romans 9 I see a slight contradiction to what you posted.

The OP was in regard to salvation, in that regard .... simply put ...

Revelation 3:20

New Living Translation
“Look! I stand at the door and knock. If you hear my voice and open the door, I will come in, and we will share a meal together as friends

People choose to open that door and receive Him or not.

About Romans 9:11 (election for service - not salvation)

In Romans Paul is building a case for Gentiles taking up Israel's failed post of duty and mission.

Romans 9 is about missional election and oracle trust, not personal salvation.

The election of Israel by God to be His special people was not primarily an election to salvation, though it would have resulted in that (had they not broke covenant with Him). It was an election to service (Exodus 19:5, 6; Isaiah 43:10, 21; 61:6. It was His intention, confirmed many times, that they should be His people forever (2 Sam. 7:23, 24).

But even the original offer of the covenant at Sinai contained a plain "if" (conditional) (Ex. 19:5, 6). After centuries of pleading and discipline designed to help them to accept His divine call to service from the heart, God eventually accepted their refusal (Matt. 21:43; Rom. 11:20). He now offers that privilege to any who will accept it, Jew or Gentile.

Thus, to Jews as individuals the door both to service and to salvation remains open. We cannot, then, interpret either Luke 21:24 or Romans 11:25 as a renewal of the call to national service (nation of Israel), for that has been withdrawn. Neither can we take these verses as implying a new call to salvation, for that call has always been open.

Romans 9 needs to be studied in context.

 

[-57]

Because many will go down the wide road instead of the narrow.These are the people who hate God.
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

I think that answer was pretty obvious and simplistic.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I think that answer was pretty obvious and simplistic.

Yep! God is not the author of confusion. Salvation is simple.

 

[-57]

The OP was in regard to salvation, in that regard .... simply put ...

Revelation 3:20

New Living Translation
“Look! I stand at the door and knock. If you hear my voice and open the door, I will come in, and we will share a meal together as friends

People choose to open that door and receive Him or not.

It sounds like you are saying the church of laodicea was lost...as Christ is knocking at its door. The church has an option to be saved or not....or, could Christ be knocking at the door, asking to come in and help straighten out the church? I think every day we are presented with the option to choose who we will serve this day.

About Romans 9:11 (election for service - not salvation)

In Romans Paul is building a case for Gentiles taking up Israel's failed post of duty and mission.

Romans 9 is about missional election and oracle trust, not personal salvation.

The election of Israel by God to be His special people was not primarily an election to salvation, though it would have resulted in that (had they not broke covenant with Him). It was an election to service (Exodus 19:5, 6; Isaiah 43:10, 21; 61:6. It was His intention, confirmed many times, that they should be His people forever (2 Sam. 7:23, 24).

But even the original offer of the covenant at Sinai contained a plain "if" (conditional) (Ex. 19:5, 6). After centuries of pleading and discipline designed to help them to accept His divine call to service from the heart, God eventually accepted their refusal (Matt. 21:43; Rom. 11:20). He now offers that privilege to any who will accept it, Jew or Gentile.

Thus, to Jews as individuals the door both to service and to salvation remains open. We cannot, then, interpret either Luke 21:24 or Romans 11:25 as a renewal of the call to national service (nation of Israel), for that has been withdrawn. Neither can we take these verses as implying a new call to salvation, for that call has always been open.

Romans 9 needs to be studied in context.

I have studied Romans 9 in context. Prior to being born they were chosen...then it is followed up by mercy and compassion which don't sound like mission and oral trust.
It talks on a person level with the potter and clay. Not Israel's failed post of duty and mission.

 

[-57]

Yep! God is not the author of confusion. Salvation is simple.

Why would one choose the narrow gate over the wide gate? What is that choice based upon?

 

[eleos1954]

It sounds like you are saying the church of laodicea was lost...as Christ is knocking at its door. The church has an option to be saved or not....or, could Christ be knocking at the door, asking to come in and help straighten out the church? I think every day we are presented with the option to choose who we will serve this day.



I have studied Romans 9 in context. Prior to being born they were chosen...then it is followed up by mercy and compassion which don't sound like mission and oral trust.
It talks on a person level with the potter and clay. Not Israel's failed post of duty and mission.

"Prior to being born they were chosen..."

Who are they?