The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

[FineLinen]

If universalism were true there would be no reason to fear GOD. That is why it is such a pernicious doctrine - it subverts the fear of GOD.

 

[Saint Steven]

Post moved to PM.

I should say here though, If I haven't already...
I am enjoying the reading and find it both biblical and helpful.
It's as if he is making a quilt of various bits and scraps that I didn't know where to put. Like the beautiful quilts my grandmother used to make of leftover fabric.

Here's the link again for anyone that is interested.
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

 

[Hillsage]

Post moved to PM.

I should say here though, If I haven't already...
I am enjoying the reading and find it both biblical and helpful.
It's as if he is making a quilt of various bits and scraps that I didn't know where to put. Like the beautiful quilts my grandmother used to make of leftover fabric.

Here's the link again for anyone that is interested.
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

You haven't "said" that. I love that analogy Steve. Reminds me of the one I had growing up too.

Now you're seeing why he is considered my 'anointed pen' of teachers. His monthly studies took a topic and often brought scriptures out from Genesis to Revelation that just didn't fit anywhere for me. Then he would 'sew' them together into something that fit beautifully into what he would be teaching on.

 

[Saint Steven]

You haven't "said" that. I love that analogy Steve. Reminds me of the one I had growing up too.

Now you're seeing why he is considered my 'anointed pen' of teachers. His monthly studies took a topic and often brought scriptures out from Genesis to Revelation that just didn't fit anywhere for me. Then he would 'sew' them together into something that fit beautifully into what he would be teaching on.

Yup.
My only complaint is that it is nearly impossible to read as it appears. (long lines with no line spacing and a bad font) I pasted it into Evernote, where I modified it to make it more readable.

 

[Saint Steven]

@Hillsage
Is it your understanding that the Judgment of the Nations will be primarily focused on leadership, or those in power? Who answers for a whole nation? The whole nation?

Also, the author limits the nations to those boundaries established after the flood as divided by languages that came from the Tower of Babel. How does that line up with this? (one of five references in Revelation containing the bolded phrase)

Revelation 5:9
And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Always wondered about this as well. Indication of a twelve month year. And... see bolded. Some sort of medicine from the leaves? And what of the fruit?

Revelation 22:1-2
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

 

[Hillsage]

@Hillsage
Is it your understanding that the Judgment of the Nations will be primarily focused on leadership, or those in power? Who answers for a whole nation? The whole nation?

I believe judgment is appropriated in proportion to anointing and authority levels attained by our walk in Christ. IOW if you commit adultery Steve, it probably won't make the local paper. But if you're a Jimmy Swaggart, your judgment/humbling from God will be as broad as your influence for God was before man. The bigger the name/authority the harder the fall. IOW, we all will be responsible. Those who buy in to the 'stick your head in the sand' and obey leadership and God will protect you, will be judged in the spiritual camp as the "koolaid drinkers". IOW John Bevere's book UNDERCOVER had some feathers missing from the covering of those wings on the cover of the book. And FYI, or anyone else reading, I love John Bevere, and have spoken personally with him, as you may remember Steve. We were in agreement on disagreeing with the church and their poor definition of grace being 'undeserved favor'.

Also, the author limits the nations to those boundaries established after the flood as divided by languages that came from the Tower of Babel. How does that line up with this? (one of five references in Revelation containing the bolded phrase)

Revelation 5:9
And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Always wondered about this as well. Indication of a twelve month year. And... see bolded. Some sort of medicine from the leaves? And what of the fruit?

Revelation 22:1-2
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

More eschatology Steve...my weak link.

 

[Saint Steven]

We were in agreement on disagreeing with the church and their poor definition of grace being 'undeserved favor'.

Uh oh, there's another topic for discussion. - lol

 

[Saint Steven]

Yup.
My only complaint is that it is nearly impossible to read as it appears. (long lines with no line spacing and a bad font) I pasted it into Evernote, where I modified it to make it more readable.

I just discovered that Windows has a "book" icon at the top of the window that is for "Reading Mode". That helps a lot.

 

[Hillsage]

Uh oh, there's another topic for discussion. - lol

Or not. Pretty short discussion usually.

 

[Saint Steven]

Or not. Pretty short discussion usually.

I'll send a PM. Unless you want to define "grace" here. Seems off topic.

 

[FineLinen]

What If I Am Wrong?

 

[FineLinen]

“My father used to take all the family for a walk on Sunday evenings. On one such walk, we wandered across a narrow path through a field of high, ripe corn. I lagged behind, and found myself alone. Suddenly, heaven blazed upon me. I was enveloped in golden light, I was conscious of a presence, so kind, so loving, so bright, so consoling, so commanding, existing apart from me but so close. I heard no sound. But words fell into my mind quite clearly – ‘Everything is all right. Everybody will be all right.’” -Prof. David Hay-

Over 60 years ago, young F.L. carried a number of Bible's under his powerful arm. One day a man of God spoke a word of the Lord to me indicating I needed to put my Bible's aside and hear the voice of the Living God. It has taken me 60+ years to begin to hear that quickening Voice in the outer laminar spheres of the unspeakable unknown! It is impossible to contemplate what the inner Spheres are like, but it becomes apparent to me why there are times of silence in the Heavenlies as a Holy hush breaks.

 

[Saint Steven]

@Hillsage @FineLinen
Where do you guys get this "age-during" definition for eternal?
The same Greek word is used for both occurrences of "eternal" in this verse below.

G166
aiōnios
1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, never to cease, everlasting

Matthew 25:46
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

 

[FineLinen]

@Hillsage @FineLinen
Where do you guys get this "age-during" definition for eternal?
The same Greek word is used for both occurrences of "eternal" in this verse below.

G166
aiōnios
1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, never to cease, everlasting

Matthew 25:46
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

The Greek Words "aion" and "aionios," do these words mean "eternal" or "everlasting"?

Aidios=

Strong's Greek: 126. ἀΐδιος (aidios) -- everlasting

The Ages or A Time Sequence in aionios
How Words "Mean" in Greek and English
Dr. Orville Boyd Jenkins

Time or Character, The Ages or A Time Sequence in <em>aionios</em>: How Words "Mean" in Greek and English

 

[Hillsage]

I'll send a PM. Unless you want to define "grace" here. Seems off topic.

When I talked to John Bevere I did so because in his teaching it was obvious he was using grace in a manner I liked. IOW, not just some greasy coverup of sin, as I've heard so many Christians use it to 'overlook' dealing with their sin issues. He was only talking to about 30 of us so it was easy to have a one on one. I asked his definition of grace but then gave him my definition first. Mine was 'the power of God to accomplish God's will'. John then gave me the same two scriptures, to support his definition, that I always use to refute 'undeserved favor', and support mine.

JAM 4:6 But he gives more grace; therefore it says, "God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble."

1PE 5:5 Likewise you that are younger be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for "God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble." 6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that in due time he may exalt you.

He then gave me his definition; "Grace is the power to accomplish what God's truth demands." Pretty close to mine I think.

 

[Hillsage]

@Hillsage @FineLinen
Where do you guys get this "age-during" definition for eternal?
The same Greek word is used for both occurrences of "eternal" in this verse below.

G166
aiōnios
1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, never to cease, everlasting

Matthew 25:46
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Remember when I said you might just want to start with "ETERNITY" which is the first chapter of Preston's series? But, it too is an in depth study just as you are finding concerning 'The Judgment'. Even FL's URL's end up being a bit of a "study to show yourself approved" read.

Below are some scholarly translations which use the Greek word aionios consistently. Instead of making the definition "eternal" when it's in a 'deal with sin' verse, as opposed to using it as 'something taking place during an age' whenever it's obviously talking about Christians. IOW their definition changes to fit their theology and not meet the rules of Greek grammar.

Youngs Literal translation
MAT 25:46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

Concordant Literal translation;
Matt 25:46 And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."

Rotherham's translation 25:46 And, these, shall go away, into, age-abiding, correction, but, the righteous, into, age-abiding, life.

 

[FineLinen]

Remember when I said you might just want to start with "ETERNITY" which is the first chapter of Preston's series? But, it too is an in depth study just as you are finding concerning 'The Judgment'. Even FL's URL's end up being a bit of a "study to show yourself approved read.

Below are some scholarly translations which use the word aionios consistently. Instead of making the defintion eternal when it's in a 'deal with sin verse' as opposed to using it as 'something taking place during an age' whenever it's obviously talking about Christians. IOW their definition changes to fit theology and not meet the rules of grammar.

Youngs Literal translation
MAT 25:46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

Concordant Literal translation;
Matt 25:46 And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."

Rotherham's translation 25:46 And, these, shall go away, into, age-abiding, correction, but, the righteous, into, age-abiding, life.

 

[FineLinen]

 

[FineLinen]

The Greek Words "aion" and "aionios," do these words mean "eternal" or "everlasting"?

Aidios=

Strong's Greek: 126. ἀΐδιος (aidios) -- everlasting

The Ages or A Time Sequence in aionios
How Words "Mean" in Greek and English
Dr. Orville Boyd Jenkins

Time or Character, The Ages or A Time Sequence in <em>aionios</em>: How Words "Mean" in Greek and English

The Bible Ages

The Doctrine of the Ages in the Bible

 

[Saint Steven]

When I talked to John Bevere I did so because in his teaching it was obvious he was using grace in a manner I liked. IOW, not just some greasy coverup of sin, as I've heard so many Christians use it to 'overlook' dealing with their sin issues. He was only talking to about 30 of us so it was easy to have a one on one. I asked his definition of grace but then gave him my definition first. Mine was 'the power of God to accomplish God's will'. John then gave me the same two scriptures, to support his definition, that I always use to refute 'undeserved favor', and support mine.

JAM 4:6 But he gives more grace; therefore it says, "God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble."

1PE 5:5 Likewise you that are younger be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for "God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble." 6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that in due time he may exalt you.

He then gave me his definition; "Grace is the power to accomplish what God's truth demands." Pretty close to mine I think.

Seems to work more as a second definition. IMHO
Would your definition work in this scripture?

Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—