And no-one has ever said that you can know who the elect are. Now each individual can know if self is elect. God will reveal to you your own heart (whether or not it is changed); but to look at a group of people and say this one or that one is (or isn't) elect; while any of us are still living, we can't make that ultimate judgement call.
Now we can say: "That person shows no fruit." and "At this point they are not redeemed." Now are they elect and will they be redeemed later in life. That answer falls only with God.
Now if someone dies without any evidence of ever having believed; from all external appearances, one could say they were not elect. What happened within that person in the moments before they actually died? God only knows,
But your last few thoughts seem to refute your first paragraph. As I said, "Of course the elect will be saved, but knowing who they are is another story". This applies to
all, whether speaking of anyone else or ourselves. We can have a level of assurance, based to a large degree on our fruits, but we cannot know, beyond a shadow of doubt, whether or not we're definitely saved, or whether we'll persevere and not fall back away, whether or not our names are written in the Book of Life. That's Gods province, not ours.
This is a misperception you have though. The will is not "removed"; it's changed. It's "made alive" along with the person's spirit / soul / what ever the process is that God uses to quicken someone. Although it is true that there is a lot of unnecessary pain and suffering; that's something humanity has "self inflicted upon self."
But if the will is changed such that it cannot do anything but will as God determines, then you're making a distinction without a difference. In Catholic theology we cannot will rightly without God moving us to do so and yet we can still resist that movement, we can say "no", whether at the beginning or at any step later on. We can't possibly be saved without Him and yet we can still refuse to be saved. This preserves and explains the meaning of so many Scriptural passages from Genesis through Revelation, commands and warnings and admonitions and encouragements to believers to obey, to not fall away, to remain/abide in him, to choose life over death, to refrain from sin, to not be branches cut off, to invest ones talents, to keep oil in ones lamp, to strive, to persevere, etc, etc.
Entities retain the ability to act independently of other's wills or desires; but that ability is not theologically "free will". A will that is truly free, is free from a fallen nature as well as the individual's own sin. And this side of eternity, no human independent volition fits that definition.
I'll agree that freedom is a somewhat relative term for man and yet, even in his fallen state, which persists in him even afterwards as he struggles with sin/concupiscence, he's a morally accountable being, he can choose between right and wrong, he's not some dumb amoral beast and this is why we hold each other accountable for injustices, this is why we can all possess and express moral outrage or righteous indignation at atrocities committed in this world. He also possesses no "sin nature". His "falleness" consists chiefly in spiritual separation from God, 'Apart from Whom man can do nothing', a state also known as the "death of the soul". So God appeals to man, to
draw his will into alignment, to draw man's "yes" without strictly determining this for him, to draw man to
Himself-from Eden until now-
for our own good. And
that's why human history only makes sense if the will of man plays a role, no matter how small.
Because if it's a matter of the will being determined then there was simply no reason to boot man out of Eden, to not prevent Adam from sinning to begin with or just forgive him right away, to not stock heaven with the predestined elect right then, and hell with the reprobate- if man in no way has to learn of the foolishness of Adam's act and reverse that decision within himself. Instead man was placed into a world where he
could learn, collectively and personally, of the foolishness and destructiveness of the loss of his vital relationship with God, of the fruits of disobeying Him, of denying His authority, His godhood. Fallen man is a prodigal who experiences-who
knows-both good and evil in this life, and can therefore come to choose between the two, even as grace is needed to help him. He can experience the evil and sin that results when man's will reigns, when the Master's gone away for all practical purposes. And he can then change his mind as revelation and grace are thrown into the mix. This explains God's patiently working with and through a people down through the centuries-and finally delivering His ultimate grace and revelation in the form of Christ when the time was ripe. So that the full light is now present in the world, so that we may
choose -as we're ready, even if only reluctantly and faltering at first, and then be finally judged on what we did with what we've been given in terms of time and experience and knowledge and grace.
