What do you think about the Amish?

[bbbbbbb]

It's a fundamentalist, separatist religion that has been romanticized a great deal.

To their credit, the Amish have not sought any of the publicity. They are similar to the ultra-orthodox Jews, who also have gained more interest than they merit. People seem to gravitate to extremes, whether in religion or politics or any other area of life.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

It's a fundamentalist, separatist religion that has been romanticized a great deal.

I'm not sure that I would call them "separatist", their services are as open as our LCC/LCMS are, and their communion is no more closed than ours... but for different reasons.

I would call them more legalistic than most fundamentalists. They rely on the personal interpretation of Scripture of their Elders, Bishops and Preachers; yet they do emphasize the simplicity of faith being key to salvation. This is a paradox IMO, simple faith, but strict observance of the law.

I still value my Amish and Mennonite friends, their simple faith, and good humor, and when attending funerals, their amazing singing in their Churches. I am saddened, that by our theological standards, they they do not see the Sacraments as means of grace; but at the same time, even we Lutherans recognize that faith is enough.

 

[Radagast]

Well most Protestants don't take things like tradition, holiness as far as "separation from the world" seriously

Actually, just about every strand of Protestantism has a group within it that takes those things extremely seriously.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Actually, just about every strand of Protestantism has a group within it that takes those things extremely seriously.

Quite true.

 

[Albion]

Yeh, but our strand is better than their strand.

 

[Augustus_33AD]

I think they're Jansenist.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I think they're Jansenist.

How do you make that connection?

 

[Augustus_33AD]

How do you make that connection?

They hate all pleasure and think technology is evil for some reason.

 

[bbbbbbb]

They hate all pleasure and think technology is evil for some reason.

I was unaware that these were core beliefs of Jansenists. Perhaps you might with to add this information to the Wikipedia article here - Jansenism - Wikipedia

 

[Augustus_33AD]

I was unaware that these were core beliefs of Jansenists. Perhaps you might with to add this information to the Wikipedia article here - Jansenism - Wikipedia

Well, technically they're not core theological beliefs but they are some of their core beliefs.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Well, technically they're not core theological beliefs but they are some of their core beliefs.

If they are, indeed, core beliefs of Jansenists, how do you know about them? I have not encountered any evidence of these being critical aspects of Jansenism.

 

[Augustus_33AD]

If they are, indeed, core beliefs of Jansenists, how do you know about them? I have not encountered any evidence of these being critical aspects of Jansenism.

It's not so much only the Jansenists, it's because of their Calvinist ideas. The Amish like the jansenists think alcohol is evil and such. I heard from a talk by Sir Charles Coloumbe and Dr. Bill Biersach on the topic.

 

[Augustus_33AD]

If they are, indeed, core beliefs of Jansenists, how do you know about them? I have not encountered any evidence of these being critical aspects of Jansenism.

If I'm wrong about any of the things I have said btw feel free to correct me.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I can't ask them anything since they don't use the Internet.

I respect them for their commitment to non-violence, but have little agreement with much else in the broader Anabaptist tradition.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

It's not so much only the Jansenists, it's because of their Calvinist ideas. The Amish like the jansenists think alcohol is evil and such. I heard from a talk by Sir Charles Coloumbe and Dr. Bill Biersach on the topic.

Actually, the Amish congregations rarely are abstainers of alcohol, but do not advocate excess with anything; this is more likely with some Congregations of Old Order Mennonites. They are congregationalist; each congregation is autonomous; rules are set by the Bishop and Elders; fellowship agreements are not faith wide, but are agreed upon between congregations; no Synod and no central governance. Same with the old order and more traditional Mennonites; but they, as I said above are less apt to be drinkers.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I respect them for their commitment to non-violence, but have little agreement with much else in the broader Anabaptist tradition.

-CryptoLutheran

I have witnessed very inconsiderate treatment of our Armed Forces people involved in disaster relief by the Amish, admonishing them for being in the Military. So, they seem to be not as pacifistic as they let on.

 

[Radagast]

I think they're Jansenist.

The Jansenists had an Augustinian (almost Calvinist) view of Grace and taught that Communion should be taken infrequently and with special preparation. The Jansenists were not anti-technology (indeed, Blaise Pascal was a scientist and mathematician).

In contrast, the Amish afaik have a more or less Arminian view of Grace, although they share the belief in infrequent communion.

The Amish are not, in any sense, Jansenist. I can see why you would think so, though: many Catholics (incorrectly) use "Jansenist" as a synonym for "strict."

 

[Augustus_33AD]

Actually, the Amish congregations rarely are abstainers of alcohol, but do not advocate excess with anything; this is more likely with some Congregations of Old Order Mennonites. They are congregationalist; each congregation is autonomous; rules are set by the Bishop and Elders; fellowship agreements are not faith wide, but are agreed upon between congregations; no Synod and no central governance. Same with the old order and more traditional Mennonites; but they, as I said above are less apt to be drinkers.

Oh. Ok

 

[Augustus_33AD]

The Jansenists had an Augustinian (almost Calvinist) view of Grace and taught that Communion should be taken infrequently and with special preparation. The Jansenists were not anti-technology (indeed, Blaise Pascal was a scientist and mathematician).

In contrast, the Amish afaik have a more or less Arminian view of Grace, although they share the belief in infrequent communion.

The Amish are not, in any sense, Jansenist. I can see why you would think so, though: many Catholics (incorrectly) use "Jansenist" as a synonym for "strict."

I wouldn't use it for strict, as Catholicism properly practiced is strict, I would use it for someone who hates all pleasure, which is somewhat correct but not entirely.

 

[thecolorsblend]

They hate all pleasure and think technology is evil for some reason.

That's a rather drastic oversimplification.

Most Amish eschew a lot of modern technology, it's true. But one of the major reasons for doing so is because they are concerned with how certain technologies will affect their communities. Their viewpoint seems to be that there's nothing stopping them from adopting a given type of technology in the future. But at least for now, it might be better to hold off.

Considering the trend of people who send explicit pictures of themselves to others, I can't knock the Amish very much for wanting to keep things like that out of their communities.