Does willful sin separate the elect from God?

[Phil W]

No A-B

It says you make God a liar if you say you have no sin.

What do you mean by "no A-B"?
I would indeed be a liar if I said "I have no sin" while I was walking in darkness.
But I walk in the light, which is God, and there is no sin in God.

If I am walking in darkness/sin, and I say I have fellowship with God, I would be a liar.

 

[mdamon0501]

I understand what you are getting at Phil, but this idea that you can be a perfect likeness of Christ is not biblical. He was the only begotten Son. To believe that you would have to remove most of the New Testament.

Nobody is equal to Christ, and to claim that you are is blasphemy. I'm sorry but that's the truth. This was a heresy which was debated by the church early on, and found false. Nobody can be weighed in the balances with Jesus, the Jews and Christians have been saying that for thousands of years now.

 

[Grip Docility]

What do you mean by "no A-B"?
I would indeed be a liar if I said "I have no sin" while I was walking in darkness.
But I walk in the light, which is God, and there is no sin in God.

If I am walking in darkness/sin, and I say I have fellowship with God, I would be a liar.

That’s not what the verse says.

It has no implications of being a conditional statement.

It is an all out statement that if a Christian says they are carnally perfect, able to obey God perfectly, that they are calling God a liar.

It is completely void of ability to reframe. It’s only contingency is that if you desire to ignore this verse, you are willing to call God a liar.

It is a test of humility! A man that would rather call God a liar, than admit his genuine human frailty is too Proud to be humble before mankind, let alone GOD!

 

[Concord1968]

Even after conversion, a legit born-again Christian will still sin every second of every day for the rest of their lives. Because no Christian (just like everyone else) will ever do anything out of perfect love of God, which is the MINIMUM requirement for something NOT to be a sin. This is why all our good deeds are "as filthy rags" in the sight of God.

 

[Phil W]

No one can obey God perfectly, but God.

Then Christ died for nothing.
The new covenant is profitable only to the sacrificial animals, as nothing else changed.

The Gap between the Creator and the Creation is so great in Righteousness that He alone can be our “Ladder”.

If you will get on that ladder, you will eventually get to the top!

You can’t buy that ladder. You can’t work for that ladder..
We have to admit we need the Ladder!
He is Jacob’s Ladder! We are not the Ladder and we only have access to Him by His Mercy and Love!
Grace that is merited isn’t Grace at all!

It seems that you have all the answers for attaining, or receiving, the righteousness of God...but you continue to refute the reality of it actually happening.
Why?

If God is your master, why won't you obey Him?

 

[Grip Docility]

Then Christ died for nothing.
The new covenant is profitable only to the sacrificial animals, as nothing else changed.


If you will get on that ladder, you will eventually get to the top!


It seems that you have all the answers for attaining, or receiving, the righteousness of God...but you continue to refute the reality of it actually happening.
Why?

If God is your master, why won't you obey Him?

Christ died because no one can carnally obey unto Salvation, except for God Incarnate.

The Holy Spirit doesn’t lobotomize People! The Soul is unique and God doesn’t desire to rip its identity away.

The facts are that we are not He! He is THE MARK and Sin is missing the MARK.

Our soul is the clay and The Potter works with it at His pace.

 

[Phil W]

That’s not what the verse (1 John 1:8) says.
It has no implications of being a conditional statement.

Then you have convinced yourself to never obey God.

It is an all out statement that if a Christian says they are carnally perfect, able to obey God perfectly, that they are calling God a liar.
It is completely void of ability to reframe. It’s only contingency is that if you desire to ignore this verse, you are willing to call God a liar.
It is a test of humility! A man that would rather call God a liar, than admit his genuine human frailty is too Proud to be humble before mankind, let alone GOD!

How were you initially forgiven of your past sins?

 

[Grip Docility]

Then you have convinced yourself to never obey God.

Congratulations! That’s called Repentance!
I want to OBEY Him, but I fail!!!! I had to fall on my knees, beat my chest and admit defeat! I had to surrender to HIM as my ONLY hope!

Each day that passes, my conviction of sin grows!

How were you initially forgiven of your past sins?

I’m forgiven ALL Sin! That’s the Gospel! Grace isn’t a license to sin, but God’s mercy to SINNERS!

Matt 9:13 Cross References (37 Verses)

 

[Phil W]

Even after conversion, a legit born-again Christian will still sin every second of every day for the rest of their lives. Because no Christian (just like everyone else) will ever do anything out of perfect love of God, which is the MINIMUM requirement for something NOT to be a sin. This is why all our good deeds are "as filthy rags" in the sight of God.

That isn't true.
More sins indicates a lack of conversion, as you are the same now as when you were unconverted.

It is written..."By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith." (1 John 5:2-4)
If your postulation of "all legit born again Christians sin till the end of their lives" is true, then there are no children of God.

 

[Grip Docility]

That isn't true.
More sins indicates a lack of conversion, as you are the same now as when you were unconverted.

It is written..."By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith." (1 John 5:2-4)
If your postulation of "all legit born again Christians sin till the end of their lives" is true, then there are no children of God.

Sin is judged by the Law of Sin and Death and is only the Concern Of Satan and the Demons!

Jesus Saves Sinners And (Romans 8:9) convicts us deeper and deeper of our perpetual need for Jesus!

If a human being can be in the presence of the Almighty and not see the vast difference, something is WRONG!

 

[mdamon0501]

Philippians 2:1-11 NASB

Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion, [2] make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose. [3] Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; [4] do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. [5] Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, [6] who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, [7] but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. [8] Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. [9] For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, [10] so that at the name of Jesus every KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, [11] and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Phil W]

Christ died because no one can carnally obey unto Salvation, except for God Incarnate.

Thank God for rebirth...as new creatures!

The Holy Spirit doesn’t lobotomize People! The Soul is unique and God doesn’t desire to rip its identity away.

He sure does, as our past identity was as children of the devil!

The facts are that we are not He! He is THE MARK and Sin is missing the MARK.

It is written..."And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." (John 17:11)
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:" (John 17:22}
WE are ONE.

Our soul is the clay and The Potter works with it at His pace.

Men's sins are not God's fault.

 

[Phil W]

Congratulations! That’s called Repentance!
I want to OBEY Him, but I fail!!!! I had to fall on my knees, beat my chest and admit defeat! I had to surrender to HIM as my ONLY hope!
Each day that passes, my conviction of sin grows!

I hope it grows to the point where your repentance from sin is real.

I’m forgiven ALL Sin! That’s the Gospel! Grace isn’t a license to sin, but God’s mercy to SINNERS!

Not a license to sin huh....

 

[Grip Docility]

Thank God for rebirth...as new creatures!

Mercy, Faith, Love, Hope and the like are our imparted blessings. Carnal perfection doesn’t come until the seed genuinely dies!

Paul even says he would have to leave this world to be free of sin!

He sure does, as our past identity was as children of the devil!

If God wanted robots, we were a failed creation! Love desires sincerity above “perfection”.

It is written..."And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." (John 17:11)
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:" (John 17:22}
WE are ONE.

We are in the Son... Who is our Head... thus the Son Of Man is our Head. We are the BOC!

His Head is the Father, thus He is God.

We are not God.

Men's sins are not God's fault.

Correct, Sin is our fault.

Thank God Perfect Love casts out all fear!

 

[Wordkeeper]

I interpret this to mean that lack of repentance is a reflection of lack of salvation as opposed to lack of sin being a reflection of lack of salvation.

Repentance requires someone to leave one mindset and take on another view. Ananias and Sapphira agreed that serving mammon for treasure that rusted was futile, but they still were not convinced that serving God for treasure that does not perish was viable. Kind of like Israel. Out of all the Jews over twenty who ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink, God was pleased only with Joshua and with the rest God was not pleased and their bones were left to rot in the desert.

See, we need to leave the mindset of serving Egypt but we also have to take on the mindset of serving God. We have to be born anew.

 

[Grip Docility]

I hope it grows to the point where your repentance from sin is real.

I see.

Not a license to sin huh....

This is literally calling Grace a license to sin! It is unmerited favor offered to sinners! It is not Christs promotion of Sin!

 

[Grip Docility]

Ezekiel 28:17

 

[The Righterzpen]

Repentance requires someone to leave one mindset and take on another view. Ananias and Sapphira agreed that serving mammon for treasure that rusted was futile, but they still were not convinced that serving God for treasure that does not perish was viable. Kind of like Israel. Out of all the Jews over twenty who ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink, God was pleased only with Joshua and with the rest God was not pleased and their bones were left to rot in the desert.

See, we need to leave the mindset of serving Egypt but we also have to take on the mindset of serving God. We have to be born anew.

None of this happens outside of the working of God though.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Yep 99 brother getting late my time too. Have a nice rest.

I think that we are basically agreed in that Justification is by faith in Christ alone, and Sanctification is obedience to the commands of Christ and through the Holy Spirit inspired teaching of Paul. Although we are not perfect in our obedience, we desire to be, and put as much effort as we can to withstand temptation and do what is most beneficial and expedient. We must question a professing Christian who does not have a total desire for holiness before the Lord.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Didn't say that.

Here's my quote you responded to:

"Not if one has been born of God, because "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9 And of those who do fall away it is written, "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." 1John 2:19"​

So apparently you're objecting to the apostle John, misconstruing what he said. John also said, "We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us." 1John 4:6 I hear what he's saying, do you?

John was countering the Gnostic heresy which taught that the spiritual side of a believer was most important and the physical was nothing - that as long as a believer had faith in Christ and was born again in his spirit, what happened in his physical body meant nothing; so he could go on living just as he pleased. This meant that a Gnostic just carried on sinning and depended on his spiritual side to be justified. So, it is important that we view John's writing in its true context.

The truth is that we are justified by faith in Christ alone, but our sanctification depends on obeying the commands of Christ in the gospels and in the Holy Spirit writing in the Epistles. Our new heart's desire is to be totally holy before the Lord, but we can't achieve that without the help of the Holy Spirit, so we resist temptation with His help so that we continually work on improving our sanctification each day.

If a person thinks that they can have faith in Christ and just continue in their previous sins and do just what they please, they are deceived. It is just that I oppose the Arminian doctrine of total sanctification by faith, involving sinless perfection.