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Ophiolite

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Well as I believe in Divine creation I do not believe feathers "developed" but were created in an instant! So far the fossil record is 100% in support of that.

As for teh feather- what I listed are teh parts of a feather that are coded in genetics to produce! A creature with scales does not have that and needs its genome re written to produce all that! I say it never happened so I would not expect (as is true) that no mechanism exists to re order all those features for just a feather! never mind all the other rewritings of the genome in order for a thrapod to become a bird as evolutionists declare as fact!

#2 I do not know if Darwins works either implicitly or explicitly endorsed eugenics- but that is not germaine to the the supposed science of evolution.

#1 same answer as #2

I care not a whit of Darwins friendship, his youth, etc. What I do care about darwin is that he saw variation in species and extrapolated that backwards to popularize natural evolution.

Tell you what as you have yet gotten specific in anything- take an area you feel comfortable and can be specific and not require a biography (like whatr you requested about Darwin) that you think creationists are wrong about and we can discuss it.

If you do not want to discuss with me--so be it!~
Your response bears little or no relationship to my post. Let's try again:
First Issue
1. You made a list of events that needed to occur in order for feathers to evolve. You were insistent that if any one of these failed to occur then feathers could not evolve.
2. You challenged me to prove that each step had occurred.
3. I agreed to do so if you would first prove that each step was necessary.
4. Clearly you are unable to do and therefore unwilling to try. A poor advertisement for your beliefs.
.Second Issue
1. You asked me what I was an expert on so you could "fairly" question me on my area of expertise.
2. I offered you two areas I felt competent to address.
3. You replied with a bunch of irrelevant word salad about how these things didn't interest you.

If you cannot post coherently, remain on topic and avoid the usual unfounded assertions, why do you bother? I'm certainly not going to.
 
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Jimmy D

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Well biology speaks loudly against evolution!

One of the weirdest, most nonsensical things I've ever read on these boards, it's going to be difficult to take anything you say seriously.

paleontology is fraught with seeing what you believe instead of believing what you see. Whales are an example! They have the bones of a land animal, but because its head has a small resemblance to a whale they call it a transition.

If that was the case I would agree with you. Of course your parody of the methods of paleontology bares no relation to the real world.

Biogeography can be explained several other ways as well.

Sure it can..... Teleportation?

What is your area of expertise in then?

In terms of these discussions I don't have one. I do have enough of an interest in the subject to have read fairly widely about it though.

You would think that with all the advancements in genetics it would be easier to prove evolutioj, but it is getting harder and harder as YEC predicted it would!

Where on Earth do you get these ideas?

Ah yes old tiktaalik
! Th elobe finned fish found in 1996.

Good to see you are interested enough to google it.

There were skeptics in both creationist and evolutionary circles.

Did these evolutionists document their skepticism?

Seemed like evolutionism hjad a real transtion, until they discovered that tetrapods were fully walking around in Poland 18million years before tiktaalik supposedly existed! So tiki got demoted to asnother lobe finned fish like we have some today!

Do you know what a transitional fossil is? It doesn't sound like it based on this ignorant statement.

It's amusing how you try and cast doubt on Tiktaalik's status as a transitional fossil, by pretending that there is some sort of controversy, whilst using the extremely controversial Polish find to try to bolster your argument.

Which ever way you paint it, the prediction was made and subsequently proved to be correct.
 
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Jimmy D

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Don't know what creationist PRATT is,

Point Refuted A Thousand Times.

but the hominid line is filled with evolutionary frauds.

You think that any of the info in the diagram below is fraudulent?

hominid_evo.jpg



393-004-4C8664A3.jpg
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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I wonder if we (evolutionists) might not be better talking in terms of lots of generations, rather than lots of time. That would also implicitly remind us that populations evolve, not individuals.
Good idea.

I've seen heated debates between physicists on this point. An alternate view, and one that I lean to, is that Newton's theory was a very good approximation. So, not wrong, just not exactly right in some circumstances.
Isaac Asimov wrote an article on the principle of the relativity of wrong:

"when people thought the earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the earth was spherical, they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together."

The basic trouble, you see, is that people think that "right" and "wrong" are absolute; that everything that isn't perfectly and completely right is totally and equally wrong."
 
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nolidad

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I wouldn't describe myself as being as expert in any area, except in comparison with Creationists.

I take it that this attempt of yours to change the subject means you are unable to meet the reasonable challenge I set you to justify the steps you insist are necessary in order to develop feathers. If I am mistaken, then I await that justification with interest. Once that is complete you may tackle me upon either of these two aspects of evolution:
1. Darwin's development of the theory of evolution as it relates to his youth, educational history, voyage on the Beagle, geological investigations, biological experimentation, friendship and acquaintance with contemporary scientists.
2. The fatuous assertion that Darwinism supports eugenics.

Your other responses to my posts were low grade opinion pieces. Please note I shall not be wasting my time on such in future. Please present demonstrable facts if you wish to have a discussion.


Well as you decided to finish our discussion. I do feel trhe need to set the record straight.

True science does not threaten my faith in the least- It bolsters it!

Darwinian Evolution is not science any more than Genesis 1 is science they are both objects of faith, that cannot be tested by the scientific method!

As for feathers- the dogmas of evolutionism declare that birds came from therapods (more specifically mani raptors) . Feathers had to evolve from scales and everything I listed as part of a feather are things that had to be recoded for in an animal that had no feathers to get to a feather that is survivable. That is just basic anatomy 101>

https://o.quizlet.com/OdVVopP4h2auMoMdZ-26Iw_b.jpg

Reptilian scales[edit]

Brightly colored scales on a gold dust day gecko
Main article: Reptile scales
Reptile scale types include: cycloid, granular (which appear bumpy), and keeled (which have a center ridge). Scales usually vary in size, the stouter, larger scales cover parts that are often exposed to physical stress (usually the feet, tail and head), while scales are small around the joints for flexibility. Most snakes have extra broad scales on the belly, each scale covering the belly from side to side.

The scales of all reptiles have an epidermal component (what one sees on the surface), but many reptiles, such as crocodilians and turtles, have osteoderms underlying the epidermal scale. Such scales are more properly termed scutes. Snakes, tuataras and many lizards lack osteoderms. All reptilian scales have a dermal papilla underlying the epidermal part, and it is there that the osteoderms, if present, would be formed.

Lots of rewriting in the genome to do to go from scales to feathers!
 
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nolidad

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No, it's not.

The only hominid fossil fraud was Piltdown Man. And that was resolved decades ago.

Nebraska Man
Java man
Peking man
neanderthal man which had to be upgraded to homo sapien.
 
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nolidad

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Do you imagine that all evolutionists are experts in every aspect of evolution? Surely not. Do you have any reason to think I am an expert in the evolution of feathers? (I'll give you a hint, I'm not.)
Do you think it is intellectually honest to challenge someone whom you know is not in possession of a full set of answers to provide them with the obvious intention, explicitly expressed, of declaring evolution false when they fail to do so? (I'll give you a hint. It isn't.)

But I shall, nevertheless, play your game. First, though, provide documented evidence that demonstrates that all of the steps detailed above are essential for the evolution of feathers. Take as long as you need.
I misunderstood your question.


Your expertise in Evolution is not expertise in the supposed science- it is an alleged expertise on the life of Darwin, not the study of evolution!
 
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JackRT

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No, it's not.

The only hominid fossil fraud was Piltdown Man. And that was resolved decades ago.

Well, there is also Nebraska Man . Both were in the early days of the scientific study of early human fossils. Both finds were met with widespread scientific skepticism and both were proven fraudulent by scientists. The only reason that they remain a public issue is because both were hugely hyped and sensationalized in the media at the time. With all we have learned in the decades since such frauds are now almost impossible to pull off.
 
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Job 33:6

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Your response bears little or no relationship to my post. Let's try again:
First Issue
1. You made a list of events that needed to occur in order for feathers to evolve. You were insistent that if any one of these failed to occur then feathers could not evolve.
2. You challenged me to prove that each step had occurred.
3. I agreed to do so if you would first prove that each step was necessary.
4. Clearly you are unable to do and therefore unwilling to try. A poor advertisement for your beliefs.
.Second Issue
1. You asked me what I was an expert on so you could "fairly" question me on my area of expertise.
2. I offered you two areas I felt competent to address.
3. You replied with a bunch of irrelevant word salad about how these things didn't interest you.

If you cannot post coherently, remain on topic and avoid the usual unfounded assertions, why do you bother? I'm certainly not going to.

If we are all honest with ourselves, we knew a bunch of meaningless drivel was all that young earthers would ever offer to begin with.

Painfully disappointed, yet we continue to thirst for more disappointment.
 
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nolidad

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Point Refuted A Thousand Times.



You think that any of the info in the diagram below is fraudulent?

hominid_evo.jpg



393-004-4C8664A3.jpg


Well we have apes and we have man!

Here is a pic of H. Habilis
http://humanorigins.si.edu/sites/de...MER1813_skull_CC_lt_3qtr_sq.jpg?itok=ztVwIc4l

Fully human looking!

Beside a hand all we have of habilis is near full skulls. All within the range of modern man is size.

Where is homo pithecus??? After all if we are gong to believe that A. Afarenses is where man and ape branched- where are they? We have ape and man. Do you want to see the great variation in modertn skulls?

But teh sad fact is is that h habilis has fallen into disrepute with a majority of evolutionists- ling after Creationists questioned its reliability!

H. erectus? many say8 that it should be subsumed into homo sapien, just like they did with homo sapien neanderthal several decades ago!

As for PRATT! No one here has refuted anything written by YEC scientists to me! I have debunked many major evolutionary trunks with evidence, but still waiting for one even semi solid refutation of YEC research!
 
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pitabread

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Well, there is also Nebraska Man

Nebraska Man wasn't a fraud though. It was a mistakenly identified tooth, which was corrected in relatively short order (span of a couple years).
 
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Job 33:6

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Ah yes old tiktaalik
! Th elobe finned fish found in 1996. There were skeptics in both creationist and evolutionary circles.

Seemed like evolutionism hjad a real transtion, until they discovered that tetrapods were fully walking around in Poland 18million years before tiktaalik supposedly existed! So tiki got demoted to asnother lobe finned fish like we have some today!

The zachelmie tracks are actually contested.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10420940.2015.1063491?journalCode=gich20

And there aren't actually bones associated with the zachelmie tracks to even look at.

Some have suggested that they may be fish feeding traces, as well as tracks made by tiktaalik like species.

And even if hypothetically, the tracks were tetrapod in nature, said tracks would still exist in the devonian, right next to tiktaalik, where the theory of evolution suggests they ought to be.

Ie. It's not like the tracks are first appearing in the ordovician or Cambrian, carboniferous, Permian, mesozoic, cenozoic etc.

Which basically means that whether or not the trace fossils were actually tetrapod tracks, is irrelevant to the prediction. The prediction was made and held true, regardless.

Which is something that deniers are incapable of explaining.
 
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nolidad

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One of the weirdest, most nonsensical things I've ever read on these boards, it's going to be difficult to take anything you say seriously.

Well let us look at some basic biology that has been validated by the scientific method!

1. Evolution in a nutshell says some self replicating organic goo evolved via random undirected unplanned undesigned mutations preserved by natural selection to bring us to teh massive biodiversity we see today! So mutation is the only engine for biological change for natural selection to work on!

2. Through these mutations, greater complexity and constant new information was added to genomes so that the goo by chance got eyes, legs, gills, fins wings etc.etc. etc.

3. What do we observe about mutations? Well over 99.9% of all observed mutations fall on teh harmful side of the Kimera distribution scale (made famous by genetic evolutionist Mutoo Kimera). Granted the super majority are near benign. but as Dr. Wolfe Chair of the Wisconsin school of Genetics ( and an ardent evolutionist) has declared-- all mutations reduce the viability or reproductive virility of any population and ultimately reduces the population through genetic load! IOW the more mutations a population amasses- the greater the risk of extinction!

4. There are over 5,000 human conditions caused by mutations- none beneficial.

5. The theory of continual accumulation of "positive" mutations has never been observed, tested or repeated!

6. Evolutionism says that kingdom,phyla, class, order, family, genus and species all arose through mutations preserved. But the most we have ever observe happen is speciation. and most of that is simple variation of existing genetic material and not new material being added to the genome!

7. The two major experiments to prodice evolution (fruit fly & e. coli) failed to produce any thing new- they remained fruit flies and e. coli.

So yes provable testable observable biology speaks loudly against evolution.

8. Even our supposed closest relative (chimps) whom we are only 75-80% similar genetically does not prove common ancestry. Even where we are identical - we produce qualitatively different results.

If that was the case I would agree with you. Of course your parody of the methods of paleontology bares no relation to the real world.

So it is safe to say you have not bothered to look at teh debunking of so many "evolutionary fossil finds". I also take it you never heard about the massive scandal that was unocovered in the scientific peer review process.

I love basic paleontology! But when you get the indoctrinated evolutionists creating all these stories from a partial skeleton--C'mon don't you get suspicious? Have you ever read in the mags published for normal readers all teh amazing tales of life in the prehistoric eras? Some of them are more fantastic than Jurassic Park!

Where on Earth do you get these ideas?

Where? From the research without comments by either evolutionists or YEC scientists.

Dr. Kirchner from Harvard Genetic school said in a Boston Herald interview that the study of genetics and molecular biology have advanced without any regard to evolution for nearly a century! He is an evolutionist and wishes they could join them closer, but that is an outstanding claim by the chair of Harvard Genetics.

Once again - just taking the provable facts of genetic research and micro biology without either sides indoctrination, then compare the claims of both sides against what is known of genetics- Divine Creation as espoused is more supported by the truths than evolution is!

More later! I had a hard day at work. I am retiring in 18 days from the postal service after being there for almost 36 years. so my energy is limited. Will address the rest of your amazement at me in the morning!
 
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