Law of sin and death?

LoveofTruth

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Parroting the words you do not understand will get you nowhere. Only when you can reflect them from within will you prove you have truly eaten them as food. Faith without works is no faith at all. You quote things you don't understand and do things in complete opposition to the ones you are quoting.
I understand them. By the anointing which teacheth all things.
 
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LoveofTruth

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Actually no, I'm spot on. Your actions prove your intent. Your words are a window to your heart. And every time you type you put out who you are in words. It is sadly no wonder that you do not recognize the spirit of the words I type.
Read this and consider that the Letter and Ten Commandments in stone and the entire Old Testament is done away and abolished in its ministration.
Mug you don’t see this then consider Paul’s words to you and any others in vs 14

2 Corinthians 3:6. Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.7. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:8. How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?9. For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.10. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.11. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.12. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:13. And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:14. But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.15. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.16. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.”(KJV)
 
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LoveofTruth

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Parroting the words you do not understand will get you nowhere. Only when you can reflect them from within will you prove you have truly eaten them as food. Faith without works is no faith at all. You quote things you don't understand and do things in complete opposition to the ones you are quoting.
I understand Romans 2 it aligns with this also

Romans 9:30. What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.31. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.32. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;”
 
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Shimshon

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I do not believe in replacement theology and I simply quote Paul’s words about the law of Moses and the old covenant,
Are you being devious or are that blind to what you are doing? All those simple quotes of Shaul are the cannon fodder for RT. Yet you innocently claim to not believe in it. All you're doing here is taking his quotes out of context to shove an anti-semetic theology into a Jewish-centric faith group. And you do not appear to be here to understand why we think such things, only to 'simply quote' them to us.

I'm not fooled by your feigning. You're definitely on a mission here. Sadly, you are promoting the division between us. And using the scriptures to do so. Just like your fathers.
 
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Shimshon

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Read this and consider
You have nothing to teach that hasn't already been promoted by replacement theologians. I suggest you go back to believing we are all lost and leave us to our Shalom. We will do just fine without the teachings of Marcion and Justin Martyr. Or is Martin Luther more your style of communicating with Jews?

I understand them. By the anointing which teacheth all things.
No sir you do not. Nor can I recognize the spirit within you.

You are wanting honest communication, right? See, if you can post all that scripture and not understand a thing you're posting, why would I think that by posting other scriptures you would come around? All I see from you is an adversarial spirit of division that promotes confusion. Posting more scriptures will not help you or I. We have not the same spirit to discern them. And you have yourself to thank for bringing that subject up, sadly.
 
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LoveofTruth

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Are you being devious or are that blind to what you are doing? All those simple quotes of Shaul are the cannon fodder for RT. Yet you innocently claim to not believe in it. All you're doing here is taking his quotes out of context to shove an anti-semetic theology into a Jewish-centric faith group. And you do not appear to be here to understand why we think such things, only to 'simply quote' them to us.

I'm not fooled by your feigning. You're definitely on a mission here. Sadly, you are promoting the division between us. And using the scriptures to do so. Just like your fathers.
Those are all false accusations I do nothing of the sort.
 
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LoveofTruth

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You have nothing to teach that hasn't already been promoted by replacement theologians. I suggest you go back to believing we are all lost and leave us to our Shalom. We will do just fine without the teachings of Marcion and Justin Martyr. Or is Martin Luther more your style of communicating with Jews?

No sir you do not. Nor can I recognize the spirit within you.

You are wanting honest communication, right? See, if you can post all that scripture and not understand a thing you're posting, why would I think that by posting other scriptures you would come around? All I see from you is an adversarial spirit of division that promotes confusion. Posting more scriptures will not help you or I. We have not the same spirit to discern them. And you have yourself to thank for bringing that subject up, sadly.
I do not believe in replacement theology you lie and falsely accuse me.

It seems your real problem is with Paul and the wonderful liberating freedom verses he taught.

Many have troubles with Paul.

Consider this verse that is a warning for those who distort Paul’s teachings, which I do not.

2 Peter 3:16. As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.”

I fear for some who desire to go under the law of Moses and who seek to establish their own righteousness or who try to be married to the law and Christ st the same time.like those in Galatians 3 who began in the spirit and then tried to be made perfect by the law. But the law made nothing perfect only in the spirit can believers be made perfect for it is God that works in us to will and to do and to make us perfect unto every good work. We have been delivered from the law of sin and death and walk in the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
 
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LoveofTruth

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You have nothing to teach that hasn't already been promoted by replacement theologians. I suggest you go back to believing we are all lost and leave us to our Shalom. We will do just fine without the teachings of Marcion and Justin Martyr. Or is Martin Luther more your style of communicating with Jews?

No sir you do not. Nor can I recognize the spirit within you.

You are wanting honest communication, right? See, if you can post all that scripture and not understand a thing you're posting, why would I think that by posting other scriptures you would come around? All I see from you is an adversarial spirit of division that promotes confusion. Posting more scriptures will not help you or I. We have not the same spirit to discern them. And you have yourself to thank for bringing that subject up, sadly.
You are just avoiding the obvious verses that rebuke you in 2 Cor 3 from 6 to the end

Take heed you are in great error
 
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LoveofTruth

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Are you being devious or are that blind to what you are doing? All those simple quotes of Shaul are the cannon fodder for RT. Yet you innocently claim to not believe in it. All you're doing here is taking his quotes out of context to shove an anti-semetic theology into a Jewish-centric faith group. And you do not appear to be here to understand why we think such things, only to 'simply quote' them to us.

I'm not fooled by your feigning. You're definitely on a mission here. Sadly, you are promoting the division between us. And using the scriptures to do so. Just like your fathers.
I’m not anti semetic in the least. You falsely charge me.

You don’t realize that in Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile.

You create the schism by your words not mine
 
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Shimshon

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Shimshon

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I’m not anti demerit in the least. You falsely charge me.
Look, when someone tells you to stop slapping the other in the face, it's not a proper response to claim you've not slapped them. You should pause and think how you are offensive to those who claim so instead of merely stating you are not, then continuing your offenses.

The same goes for being anti-semetic through promoting anti-Israel theology as the early church fathers are recorded for doing. And denial is another tactic of the adversary, to deny that which is openly obvious. I humbly point out where your offenses are and you deny them and accuse me of lying instead. Now, I do recognize THAT spirit....

Can you heed a request? Please do not attempt to teach me any further.
 
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LoveofTruth

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It's o.k. I forgive you. Really. You obviously do not know what you are doing.
You are being high minded and talking false here

i have been a believer and ministering for about 30 years. I have picked up a few things over those years
 
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LoveofTruth

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Look, when someone tells you to stop slapping the other in the face, it's not a proper response to claim you've not slapped them. You should pause and think how you are offensive to those who claim so instead of merely stating you are not, then continuing your offenses.

The same goes for being anti-semetic through promoting anti-Israel theology as the early church fathers are recorded for doing. And denial is another tactic of the adversary, to deny that which is openly obvious. I humbly point out where your offenses are and you deny them and accuse me of lying instead. Now, I do recognize THAT spirit....

Can you heed a request? Please do not attempt to teach me any further.
You are falsely using a fallacy argument and trying to build a straw man about me.

You are in error.

also when you cannot answer Paul's simple verses that correct you and expose the danger of going under the law of Moses or seeking to teach the law of Moses to others and be made perfect by the law you attack.
 
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LoveofTruth

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Look, when someone tells you to stop slapping the other in the face, it's not a proper response to claim you've not slapped them. You should pause and think how you are offensive to those who claim so instead of merely stating you are not, then continuing your offenses.

The same goes for being anti-semetic through promoting anti-Israel theology as the early church fathers are recorded for doing. And denial is another tactic of the adversary, to deny that which is openly obvious. I humbly point out where your offenses are and you deny them and accuse me of lying instead. Now, I do recognize THAT spirit....

Can you heed a request? Please do not attempt to teach me any further.
Sadly I see that you know very little about the new covenant and the freedom from the law

read 2 Coir 3 again from vs 6 and on it relates to you also

and instead of simply using fallacy arguments against me and mud slinging, actually try to answer that section.
 
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Shimshon

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It seems your real problem is with Paul and the wonderful liberating freedom verses he taught.

We have been delivered from the law of sin and death and walk in the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

I fear for some who desire to go under the law of Moses and who seek to establish their own righteousness or who try to be married to the law and Christ st the same time.
I want the age old members of this forum to let the irony of these comments made to me to sink in...

See, I've often testified about the freedom we have in Messiah and the difference between the law of sin and death given Moses and the law of the Spirit given through Yeshua. And I too have a heart for those who magnify the Torah over the Spirit, which is Yeshua. 1 Corinthians 6:17, 2 Corinthians 3:18

However, you are the antithesis of this equation. Which is what makes it easy for me to respond, or better, what causes me to take the bait. Especially when you make it a task to come into this forum after all these years and do what you did. Which is purposely present a theology that is well known to be antagonistic to our faith. Correct me if I'm wrong but are you not SDA?

OP time...

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
What exactly does this mean? According to Torah:

3 For what was impossible for the Torah—since it was weakened on account of the flesh—God has done. Sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as a sin offering, He condemned sin in the flesh— 4 so that the requirement of the Torah might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Ruach.​

How are we set free? We know what is doing the freeing, and what we are being freed from. But how does it happen? Well all we need to do is read the next breathes of air, or pen strokes.

He condemned sin in the flesh SO THAT the requirement of the law would be fulfilled in us. Why are you condemning the Torah? Yes, that is what you communicate to me. If you want to change that then change your demeanor. Why aren't you condemning sins of the flesh that weaken the Law? Instead you condemn the law to death, when in fact it was sin that we were freed from.

Read after me:

Psalms 19:14
Romans 6:7
Romans 6:18
Romans 6:22
Romans 8:2
Revelation 1:5

Can you find the theme?

IF you loved God so much you would be proclaiming these blessings upon his people. Namely Israel. We have been made holy and righteous by the blood of our Messiah who has forgiven our sins and forgets they every happened. And leaves us with a way to remain clean through the indwelling of his Spirit.

But you seem to want to focus only on freedom of the law. Hey, I can show you a passage that indicates God has a finger.....how about I present that verse in front of you till you claim he has a body? Make much sense? That's what I see here from you.

What have we been freed from according to Shaul?
The law? That was his message of importance? We can no longer consider the law IF we are in Christ? This is what I see you attempting to teach here. Yet, the very same scriptures (above) prove you have missed the point. And greatly at that. Sin is of utmost importance to the kingdom of God. Hence the purpose and power of the Spirit in our lives.
 
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Shimshon

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Sadly I see that you know very little about the new covenant and the freedom from the law

read 2 Coir 3 again from vs 6 and on it relates to you also

and instead of simply using fallacy arguments against me and mud slinging, actually try to answer that section.
Nice try at controlling and manipulating your argument.

The true message is that Torah is complete, fulfilled. Not laid in limbo to be partially observed here in exile among the nations. Yeshua’s Torah/instruction proclaims an observance of every jot and title. It lays nothing aside for a while, nor does it renew anything old dusting it off and making it operate per antiquity.

He fills the cup to overflowing. He works for centuries filling the cup then, he drinks. No work left to do but watch him be filled with the blood from the vines. Our Jewish brothers labored all day and earned their pay, and place. The cup (Israel) was formed and filled by God himself. Yeshua came and filled it to overflowing, even with his own blood.

Now he takes it and pours it out upon mankind. We all are called to be ministers of this work. This is the work he is doing, and the work he has prepared for us from the foundations of the earth.

Our Torah is in full force. It is fully observed, the spirit is poured out upon his children. And all born again believers walk according to his ways, because all are born from above by his Spirit. Born to witness and bring this message of salvation through out the world.

A Messianic Jew's message is one of complete Torah observance to the covenant established by Yeshua, promised through Avraham.

The message Yeshua gave of the Kingdom is that it is upon us, it is here. And the instructions (Torah) he spoke regarding the Kingdom were to be followed to every jot and title. Least we call Yeshua a liar. Yeshua’s Torah is New Covenant Torah. It is what Yeshua revealed to Jew and Gentile alike through every Word he spoke. A way to worship God in Spirit and in Truth. By the indwelling of the Holy Spirit upon our souls. Made new, from old. Given a new way to worship God, as promised from the beginning. In union with God through the Spirit. Able to walk out his will and love to the glory of only Yeshua who gives us this gift. The ability to walk in the new creation he formed. In one day a nation was born…. again. One new man, the Israel of God. Both physical Jews of Ya’akov and physical goyim from the nations. Both born by the Spirit given them. A completed cup being poured out for all creation to drink.

Yet, all you want me to focus on is 'how Paul does away with the law'... And you claim my view is myopic...oy vey
 
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pinacled

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All well and good, but why did you say "adamah" was a Jew? Did you mean Adam? HaShem formed Adam from adamah...
[ Adam (אדם) literally means "red", and there is an etymological connection between adam and adamah, adamah designating "red clay" or "red ground" in a non-theological context.[7] In traditional Jewish theology, a strong etymological connection between the two words is often assumed. Maimonides believed the word adam to be derived from the word adamah, analogous to the way in which mankind was created from the ground.[8] In contemporary biblical scholarship there is a general consensus that the words have an etymological relationship, but the exact nature of it is disputed. The word adam has no feminine form in Hebrew, but if it did, it would be adamah.[6] However, it is considered unlikely that the word adamah is a feminization of "adam", and the prevailing hypothesis is that both words originate from the verbal stem "adam" (to be red) and were chosen by the author of Genesis to convey the relationship between man and the adamah.[7][9]

There is additional relationship between the words adam and adamah and the word dam (דם), meaning blood.[10] This justifies the presence in the Kashrut of the prohibition of the consumption of blood: the blood of a slaughtered animal must be returned to the ground, and covered with earth. ]

The hebrew is bolded for emphasis;

Romans 9:21 Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?





וְק֥וֹץ וְדַרְדַּ֖ר תַּצְמִ֣יחַֽ לָ֑ךְ וְאָכַלְתָּ֖ אֶת־עֵ֥שֶׂב הַשָּׂדֶֽה׃

Thorns and thistles shall it sprout for you. But your food shall be the grasses of the field;


19
בְּזֵעַ֤ת אַפֶּ֙יךָ֙ תֹּ֣אכַל לֶ֔חֶם עַ֤ד שֽׁוּבְךָ֙ אֶל־הָ֣אֲדָמָ֔ה כִּ֥י מִמֶּ֖נָּה לֻקָּ֑חְתָּ כִּֽי־עָפָ֣ר אַ֔תָּה וְאֶל־עָפָ֖ר תָּשֽׁוּב׃

By the sweat of your brow Shall you get bread to eat, Until you return to the ground— For from it you were taken. For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.”




thorns and thistles
You will recognize them by their fruit. Can people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every healthy tree produces good fruit, but a poor tree produces bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, or a poor tree good fruit. 19 Any tree that does not produce good fruit is cut down and thrown in the fire! 20 So you will recognize them by their fruit.
 
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visionary

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You are being high minded and talking false here

i have been a believer and ministering for about 30 years. I have picked up a few things over those years
You have no idea what propaganda you are promoting on our corner. You came to learn, drop what you know and see from the angle we are showing you, you might be surprised just how high the standard really is with God.
 
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pinacled

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[ Adam (אדם) literally means "red", and there is an etymological connection between adam and adamah, adamah designating "red clay" or "red ground" in a non-theological context.[7] In traditional Jewish theology, a strong etymological connection between the two words is often assumed. Maimonides believed the word adam to be derived from the word adamah, analogous to the way in which mankind was created from the ground.[8] In contemporary biblical scholarship there is a general consensus that the words have an etymological relationship, but the exact nature of it is disputed. The word adam has no feminine form in Hebrew, but if it did, it would be adamah.[6] However, it is considered unlikely that the word adamah is a feminization of "adam", and the prevailing hypothesis is that both words originate from the verbal stem "adam" (to be red) and were chosen by the author of Genesis to convey the relationship between man and the adamah.[7][9]

There is additional relationship between the words adam and adamah and the word dam (דם), meaning blood.[10] This justifies the presence in the Kashrut of the prohibition of the consumption of blood: the blood of a slaughtered animal must be returned to the ground, and covered with earth. ]

The hebrew is bolded for emphasis;

Romans 9:21 Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?





וְק֥וֹץ וְדַרְדַּ֖ר תַּצְמִ֣יחַֽ לָ֑ךְ וְאָכַלְתָּ֖ אֶת־עֵ֥שֶׂב הַשָּׂדֶֽה׃

Thorns and thistles shall it sprout for you. But your food shall be the grasses of the field;


19
בְּזֵעַ֤ת אַפֶּ֙יךָ֙ תֹּ֣אכַל לֶ֔חֶם עַ֤ד שֽׁוּבְךָ֙ אֶל־הָ֣אֲדָמָ֔ה כִּ֥י מִמֶּ֖נָּה לֻקָּ֑חְתָּ כִּֽי־עָפָ֣ר אַ֔תָּה וְאֶל־עָפָ֖ר תָּשֽׁוּב׃

By the sweat of your brow Shall you get bread to eat, Until you return to the ground— For from it you were taken. For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.”




thorns and thistles
You will recognize them by their fruit. Can people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every healthy tree produces good fruit, but a poor tree produces bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, or a poor tree good fruit. 19 Any tree that does not produce good fruit is cut down and thrown in the fire! 20 So you will recognize them by their fruit.
Dust and ashes aside. In the fruit of self discipline I noticed the field of grasses , herbs, and flowers likened to wild olives.

For those who have seen what wild flowers offer like the corner of a field. I hope they see the promised honey to come from extended borders as Shimshon(Samson had..

For a certain number of days a feast was held when he married.

Blessings Always
 
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JLB777

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And still we read about the law as it is applied to the old man

2 Corinthians 3:6. Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.7. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:9. For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.”

And



I don’t believe in replacement theology

And I’m not going to rebuke you in your attack on THE bible (KJV) in this forum. It’s about a 45 hour talk. Many other can rebuke you in this.


The law of sin and death was seen in the garden, with Adam, long before Moses.




JLB
 
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