Asteroid Strike

[AV1611VET]

There are far too many observations in the geologic record that render the Flood impossible.

Like what? retaining walls? natural sump pumps? what?

 

[AV1611VET]

No one claims that...

 

[-57]

If you're happy burning that strawman, have at it. I was just throwin' you a bone so you don't look so silly trying to discuss biology. But since you're so keen on "Information," go ahead and define what a unit of "Information" is.

I'll wait.

It does make it rather difficult discussing the complexity of the genetic code and how a process containing random chance generated the information contained in DNA.

 

[-57]

Ad hoc. But it doesn't matter since the Flood never happened. There are far too many observations in the geologic record that render the Flood impossible.

Like bioturbation.

This 2 min video shows what worms can do. And that's just worms.

The geological record contains different layers of strata. If it took millions of years to lay them down....the worms, oysters, and other critters would have destroyed the easily seen layers.

Observations such as strata show flaws in the OE models.

 

[HitchSlap]

It does make it rather difficult discussing the complexity of the genetic code and how a process containing random chance generated the information contained in DNA.

It's only difficult if you don't understand how natural and sexual selection works in populations. Traits that confer an advantage to a species survival will become prevalent through subsequent generations.

Are you ready to provide a metric we can use to define what "Information" is?

 

[USincognito]

Like bioturbation.

Bioturbation is not a problem for standard geology. It's funny you mention it though because there are trace fossils (that what bioturbations are) at all layers of the geologic column that could not have happened during the flood. They include:
paleosols
egg nests
insect and mammal burrows
plant root systems
footprints

The geological record contains different layers of strata. If it took millions of years to lay them down....the worms, oysters, and other critters would have destroyed the easily seen layers.

Observations such as strata show flaws in the OE models.

Actually there are layers, some hundreds of feet thick, that could not have been lain by the Flood.
- Limestone (including chalk) only forms in calm shallow seas and need a certain amount of calcium and carbon diooxide in the water for cocolithophores to grow.
- Shale would not form in the Flood conditions.
- Subaerial igneous layers could not happen during the Flood.
- Volcanic ashfall would not form layers of dry, compacted ash during the Flood.
- Eolian (windblown) strata could not form during the Flood.

 

[-57]

It's only difficult if you don't understand how natural and sexual selection works in populations. Traits that confer an advantage to a species survival will become prevalent through subsequent generations.

Unless it takes just one mutation to change a fin into a leg or develop the echo location system in a dolphin....the additional information required would be impossible to achieve.

Are you ready to provide a metric we can use to define what "Information" is?

Google it.

 

[-57]

Bioturbation is not a problem for standard geology. It's funny you mention it though because there are trace fossils (that what bioturbations are) at all layers of the geologic column that could not have happened during the flood. They include:
paleosols
egg nests
insect and mammal burrows
plant root systems
footprints

That would depend on what stage of the flood was occurring. You evo-minded think the whole event was like a giant cement mixer.

Actually there are layers, some hundreds of feet thick, that could not have been lain by the Flood.
- Limestone (including chalk) only forms in calm shallow seas and need a certain amount of calcium and carbon diooxide in the water for cocolithophores to grow.
- Shale would not form in the Flood conditions.
- Subaerial igneous layers could not happen during the Flood.
- Volcanic ashfall would not form layers of dry, compacted ash during the Flood.
- Eolian (windblown) strata could not form during the Flood.

I'm not going to address each and every bullet...but limestone presents quite a problem of the OE slowly deposited view. Why is it so pure? All that time depositing and not much debris polluting it.
You do know that conditions would have been perfect for large blooms after the flood which showered down and formed the chalk.

 

[USincognito]

That would depend on what stage of the flood was occurring. You evo-minded think the whole event was like a giant cement mixer.

As I said, we find them at all layers in the geologic record meaning had to have been happening all through the Flood. And I'm sorry, but the dynamics of what you guys are suggesting would have mixed everything together into single layer of slurry.

I'm not going to address each and every bullet...but limestone presents quite a problem of the OE slowly deposited view. Why is it so pure? All that time depositing and not much debris polluting it.

Not all limestone is "pure". The impurities will give it different colors. That said, I noted that limestone forms in calm shallow seas. Have you ever seen the water off the Cayman Islands or been to a beach in Florida? The sand is largely, uniformly white because the water doesn't have debris in it.

You do know that conditions would have been perfect for large blooms after the flood which showered down and formed the chalk.

No, I don't know that because it's simply not true. The slurry of the Flood would have not allowed foraminifera to live because it would have cut off the sunlight. Additionally the chalk layer known from Germany and the White Cliffs of Dover would have required a solid layer of cocolithophores living in the top twenty feet (or so) in order to have enough of them live during the Flood year to form that layer. That of course is impossible because the cocolithophores just an inch below the top would be getting zero sunlight and not be able to live.

 

[Strathos]

No one claims a local flood covered every hill on earth, as you were implying.

The Genesis Flood: Why the Bible Says It Must be Local

 

[AV1611VET]

No one claims a local flood covered every hill on earth, as you were implying.

Fine.

Are we done now?

 

[USincognito]

Unless it takes just one mutation to change a fin into a leg or develop the echo location system in a dolphin....the additional information required would be impossible to achieve.

How would you know? You can't just decide something is impossible and declare it to be so.

Google it.

We can't. No other Creationist seems capable of providing us with a quantifiable metric for measuring genetic information and we're hoping that you will be the one to finally provide us with it.

Can you?

 

[Strathos]

Fine.

Are we done now?

Until our next disagreement.

 

[-57]

How would you know? You can't just decide something is impossible and declare it to be so.

Then show us how mutations add up.

 

[USincognito]

Then show us how mutations add up.

What does this question even mean? You want every single mutation that happened to life over the the last, what, billion years since multicellularity evolved?

Whatever you're asking for it's hilarious watching you move the goalposts.

 

[-57]

What does this question even mean? You want every single mutation that happened to life over the the last, what, billion years since multicellularity evolved?

Whatever you're asking for it's hilarious watching you move the goalposts.

I'll admit mutations are a long way from asteroids...but they present quite the problem for evolutionist. You see USincognito, for a trend to evolve lots of mutations are required. In the animals progeny a second, third, fourth..etc....mutation has to occur in the organisms DNA that effects the evolving trend in a way that it enhances the fitness of the trend. Considering the large size of the DNA (3-3.5 billion base pairs in humans) and the extreme rarity of so called beneficial mutations the ability for the information to increase and the trend to evolve...especially to the level of complexity and sophistication we see today renders descent with modification impossible.

I've asked you how it is possible, but I really don't think you know.

 

[USincognito]

I'll admit mutations are a long way from asteroids...but they present quite the problem for evolutionists.

I always get a chuckle when I read stuff like this. Mutations are the fuel that drives evolution. Contrary to being a problem for evolution, they are the fuel that powers tge engine.

renders descent with modification impossible.

You keep using that word...

I've asked you how it is possible, but I really don't think you know.

1. I have explained to you how mutations work.
2. I have given examples of mutations objectively adding information to genomes.
3. I have given examples of various mutations causing change to form or function.
4. I have given examples of mutarltiins that can only result from ancestry.

The prrson in this conversation who doesn't know isn't me.

 

[-57]

I always get a chuckle when I read stuff like this. Mutations are the fuel that drives evolution. Contrary to being a problem for evolution, they are the fuel that powers tge engine.

[Quote renders descent with modification impossible.

You keep using that word...



1. I have explained to you how mutations work.
2. I have given examples of mutations objectively adding information to genomes.
3. I have given examples of various mutations causing change to form or function.
4. I have given examples of mutarltiins that can only result from ancestry.

The prrson in this conversation who doesn't know isn't me.[/QUOTE]
Long sigh.

When will you explain how mutations add up?

You see USincognito, for a trend to evolve lots of mutations are required. In the animals progeny a second, third, fourth..etc....mutation has to occur in the organisms DNA that effects the evolving trend in a way that it enhances the fitness of the trend. Considering the large size of the DNA (3-3.5 billion base pairs in humans) and the extreme rarity of so called beneficial mutations the ability for the information to increase and the trend to evolve...especially to the level of complexity and sophistication we see today renders descent with modification impossible.

 

[HitchSlap]

It’s always worth a chuckle when creationists who are wholly ignorant of evolution, are so sure why it “doesn’t work.” This is what happens when uneducated people watch creo videos and think they have a special book. The lulz ensue.

 

[Petros2015]

I know the English translation makes it sound global but the Hebrew words used aren't as confusing.

That's interesting to me - can you cite some sources or a few more links to the hebrew and their associated translations? I have a few Jewish friends might be worthwhile talking to them about it.