Asteroid Strike

ewq1938

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Or... as I just said in my post right after yours... Noach didn't put all the sub-species of animals in the Ark like we would list off in English and within modern science. Hebrew doesn't make those specific divisions. Instead... there would have been 2 cats... of whatever variety was living in that area. There didn't have to be 2 Cougars, and two Bengals, and 2 Cheetah's, and so forth. Just 2....


That's because the flood wasn't literally over the entire planet so Noah saved animals that were around his area and specifically animals he would need to have a farm and to support him and his family in a new area.
 
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Ken Rank

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That's because the flood wasn't literally over the entire planet so Noah saved animals that were around his area and specifically animals he would need to have a farm and to support him and his family in a new area.
That is one interpretation. The state fossil for Kentucky is a scallop... this continent was under salt water for a long enough period of time that this is the case. Every culture that has records all over the world records a flood event as well. Therefore, perhaps it was a local event and you are correct. But you have no room to be dogmatic (not saying you are being so) because the Hebrew can go either way and enough evidence exists to make a world wide event plausible. Especially in light of ALL of humanity being eliminated.
 
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Gene2memE

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There are more questions unanswered than our public schools give indication of.

Yep, because general education is not set up to answer unresolved questions.

There ARE human fossilized prints near dino prints.

No, there aren't. Instead, there is the Paluxy River trackway, which certain creationists have mistakenly or dishonestly claimed are human footprints. This has been debunked for ~75 years, but never let it be said that creationists are willing to let go of preconceived notions.

We are told that oil is basically decayed dino remains and yet oil is found 1000', 2000' 3000' even more below the surface and rarely has a dino fossil been found beyond 20' below the surface.

No, we're not.

Firstly, oil is formed from algae or zooplankton, not dinosaurs (my seven year old nephew is being taught this at the moment).

Secondly, there's nothing in geology that prevents oil being buried under thousands of feet of earth and rock. Then uplifted towards the surface. Or being subducted.

And... if we count Adam's years and go through biblical genealogy, we get roughly 6000 years since Adam. And, since God created with the appearance of age (Adam was a man not a baby, trees were already bearing fruit, etc.) then perhaps... JUST PERHAPS... the Earth is a few billion years old.

There's very strong evidence, refined after more than 200 years of hypothesizing and checking the facts of reality, that the earth is 4.54 billion years, +/- about 50 million years.

There's very little evidence for the biblical genealogies. For example, the genealogy given for Jesus varies WILDLY between the two accounts given in the bible. If I recall correctly, one account has around 40 to 45 generations, and one has more than 70. In the case of both, there's no evidence that any of the individuals in the first half a dozen generations are anything other than mythical.

And if not... then asking how the dinosaurs died is a valid question. It allows one to escape the scientific "theory" (the asteroid theory is a theory, not a fact) and try to fit God and Scripture into the equation.

The asteroid impact extinction hypothesis is one that can be scientifically tested for evidence. As opposed to completely ad hoc hypotheses, like creation by magic with embedded age in order to fit a particular creation mythos.

So... the Ark had less animals than most realize. In Hebrew there isn't the sub-species breakdown that we find in modern science. There wouldn't have been 2 of ever kind of cat... there would have been 2 cats. The dinosaurs could have been juveniles for those larger and perhaps..... just perhaps.... they lived for 1000 years or so before they went extinct due to hunting or environmental conditions. I don't know... I am just sharing an idea, a thought... that is honestly, just as valid as the asteroid theory.

Let's see, one side has a story in a book which they claim was inspired by a divine being. The other side has evidence supported by thousands of individual pieces of physical evidence.

That's not even a remote level of equivalence. If there were two competing stories or two competing sets of evidence, THEN you'd have equal validity.
 
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Yttrium

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ewq1938

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Especially in light of ALL of humanity being eliminated.


Or all of humanity in a certain area which is the likest scenario.

Gen 8:2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;
Gen 8:3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.
Gen 8:4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

When the waters were at their highest level the mountains or Ararat were not covered. Those mountains are not the highest mountains in the world so that leaves a lot of the world not covered by water even if we assume a global flood.

Gen 8:5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.

It wasn't until 3 months later that waters decreased enough to see other mountains but the mountains of Ararat weren't covered when the waters were at their highest 3 months prior.

I don't have the time to research further but someone just has to figure out how high the Ararat mountains are and then find out how many places are that high or higher where animals and people live or have lived and we could know for certain not all humans and animals died from this flood on the entire planet.
 
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Ken Rank

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Yep, because general education is not set up to answer unresolved questions.



No, there aren't. Instead, there is the Paluxy River trackway, which certain creationists have mistakenly or dishonestly claimed are human footprints. This has been debunked for ~75 years, but never let it be said that creationists are willing to let go of preconceived notions.



No, we're not.

Firstly, oil is formed from algae or zooplankton, not dinosaurs (my seven year old nephew is being taught this at the moment).

Secondly, there's nothing in geology that prevents oil being buried under thousands of feet of earth and rock. Then uplifted towards the surface. Or being subducted.



There's very strong evidence, refined after more than 200 years of hypothesizing and checking the facts of reality, that the earth is 4.54 billion years, +/- about 50 million years.

There's very little evidence for the biblical genealogies. For example, the genealogy given for Jesus varies WILDLY between the two accounts given in the bible. If I recall correctly, one account has around 40 to 45 generations, and one has more than 70. In the case of both, there's no evidence that any of the individuals in the first half a dozen generations are anything other than mythical.



The asteroid impact extinction hypothesis is one that can be scientifically tested for evidence. As opposed to completely ad hoc hypotheses, like creation by magic with embedded age in order to fit a particular creation mythos.



Let's see, one side has a story in a book which they claim was inspired by a divine being. The other side has evidence supported by thousands of individual pieces of physical evidence.

That's not even a remote level of equivalence. If there were two competing stories or two competing sets of evidence, THEN you'd have equal validity.
You're an atheist, I believe in God. Our paradigms aren't close enough to even have the discussion. My premise starts with God... yours doesn't.
 
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USincognito

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Maybe... or maybe most died in the flood and those that survived and came off the ark found the conditions different, they couldn't adapt, and they died.
That's possible, but since the Flood never happened, no.
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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I agree, they died in the flood waters. The ones that survived the ark were probably the dragons of past history. It's interesting that the Chinese zodiac has animals on it. All currently extant except for one. The dragon.

I never cease to be amazed when folks can't discern between what is and is not evidence.

It's also interesting that dinosaur fossils are found that contain biomaterial that should've fossilized or decayed in 65+ MY's.

We have found fragments of collagen that were preserved iron in the blood. Mary Schweitzer gets angry when Creationists try to hijack her findings.
 
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Gene2memE

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You're an atheist, I believe in God. Our paradigms aren't close enough to even have the discussion. My premise starts with God... yours doesn't.

Here's the thing. Even when I was a practicing Christian (which I was until my very late 20s), Biblical literalism and creationism were anathemas to me. So even if I was a Christian still, almost nothing I wrote would be different (bar maybe some stuff in the final paragraph).

My education was highly religious, but at no point did any priest or lay person teaching me suggest that when the facts about reality and the Bible contradicted each other, it was reality that was wrong. My religious education (Marist and Jesuit, with a smattering of Church of England and Presbyterian teaching) and my scientific education simply didn't treat those concepts as legitimate.

It took me until my mid teens before I actually met anyone that espoused a view in line with young earth creationism. It took me even longer (and a trip to work as a teacher in the US) until I met anyone who was a proper Biblical literalist.

I feel that even if I was (still) a believer, you and I would fundamentally disagree about the facts of reality. So it doesn't matter whether I'm a believer or not. What matters is what can be demonstrated to be real.
 
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lasthero

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Exactly... my comment was a suggestion and one that could have taken 1000 years to happen. Animals go extinct all the time, we know this... why did God save them @Stranger36147 ?
Okay.

So what conditions, specifically, would’ve killed off the dinosaurs, along with other animals that lived alongside them? How did these conditions come about?
 
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lasthero

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Or... as I just said in my post right after yours... Noach didn't put all the sub-species of animals in the Ark like we would list off in English and within modern science. Hebrew doesn't make those specific divisions. Instead... there would have been 2 cats... of whatever variety was living in that area. There didn't have to be 2 Cougars, and two Bengals, and 2 Cheetah's, and so forth. Just 2....
I’m sorry.

Are you implying that all the cats we see today came from a pair of two?

Are you including housecats in this?
 
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Semper-Fi

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This world, after the ruins of Lucifer’s rebellion were repaired, is one completely suited for warm-blooded humankind, created in the image and likeness of God, to have dominion (Genesis 1:26).

Man could not have dominated a world in the age of the Tyrannosaurus Rex or the Brachiosaurus. Nor could he have survived.

The fruits and vegetables, the meat, and even the pleasant beauty and sounds of birds and flowers, were all created for the age of man.

Prehistoric reptiles did not evolve into mammals.
They were obliterated.

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” (Genesis 1:1).

No biblical evidence suggests that this verse documents an event from 6,000 years ago—to the contrary!

Verse 2 states: “And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”

Other verses confirm that God did not create the Earth in this disarray. The phrase “earth was without form” actually means, in the Hebrew,

the Earth became without form and void (see Genesis 19:26 where the same Hebrew verb is used stating how Lot’s wife became a pillar of salt).

How much time passed between the creation of Genesis 1:1 and the ensuing destruction of the Earth’s ecosystem as noted in verse 2?

Though the Bible does not tell us—it could have been millions or billions of years—it does tell us how the Earth came to be in such a state.

Genesis 1:2-10 indicate that the Earth was covered with water and that no sunlight was able to pierce through the impenetrable, lethal atmosphere.

What God embarked on, according to this account,was a re-creation. This is what the Bible states occurred 6,000 years ago. Earth was re-inhabited with life. Psalm 104:30 shows that God renewed the face of the Earth.

Understanding this timeline allows for dinosaurs to have existed much more than six millennia ago. It is only when so-called Bible believers lock themselves into a 6,000-year-old world that they have trouble
with dinosaurs.

This gives birth to the erroneous notion that dinosaurs had to exist until the time of the great Flood—another Earth-wide destruction.

A simple study into the account of Noah will show that he brought some of every kind of animal onto the ark (see Genesis 6:19-20).

If dinosaurs had existed, they would have been on the ark—and still would have existed in large enough numbers to be documented throughout man’s history.
 
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Semper-Fi

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When the waters were at their highest level the mountains or Ararat were not covered. Those mountains are not the highest mountains in the world so that leaves a lot of the world not covered by water even if we assume a global flood.

Where does it say that mt. Ararat was not under water?

Gen 8:5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.
 
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ewq1938

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Where does it say that mt. Ararat was not under water?


Gen 8:4. It was under water, but not all of it was since the Ark rested upon it.
 
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AV1611VET

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Seems pretty pointless to bring them onto the ark if they were just going to die when it was all over....
Unless, of course, God had a reason for them.

Like maybe helping mankind get started farming or fishing again; assuming some of them could be used for that purpose.

Job 41:4 Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take [leviathan] for a servant for ever?
 
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AV1611VET

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People have taken the dimensions of the Ark and did the math...not enough room for all animals and food etc. It only had enough room for limited regional animals and enough food for them.
Serious question: What if the inside of the Ark was bigger than the outside?
 
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AV1611VET

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Then Moses was a Time Lord.
Moses?

God is certainly Master of time and space.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't physicists believe there are eleven dimensions of space?
 
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