Women Preachers...The truth!

[timewerx]

We have women leaders, disciples, and preachers in the Bible. Financially succesful and independent ones too! Add Proverbs 31 to that - an example of a person with great leadership qualities!

So why did Apostle Paul said otherwise, is he contradicting scriptures?? Of course NOT! Misinterpreted? YES!

REmember that Paul also taught to take heed of the laws of the ruling authorities which at that time were the Romans, the Saducees, and the Pharisees - All extremely Patriarchal.......

Sooooo...... When Paul taught that women should not preach, should not lead, submit to husbands, on whose authority he's referring to????

Hint:
The Romans, The Sadducees, and the Pharisees.....Are they your authority??? They still are if you follow their patriarchal ways!

 

[timewerx]

Should wives also submit to their Husbands??

That's another million dollar question! The answer to this one goes back to the book of Genesis!

The answer is NO, not anymore....Jesus came to take away our burden which originated from Genesis, due to Man's sin.

 

[Tone]

...I wonder how long this thread will last...

 

[Call me Nic]

False doctrine alert.

 

[timewerx]

...I wonder how long this thread will last...

Not this one. I expect only a few replies

 

[Tone]

Not this one. I expect only a few replies

I've seen many on this topic get pulled...

 

[timewerx]

False doctrine alert.

Taking Paul's teachings at face value - this is the biggest mistake of many Christians since the the beginning of the religion.

Literal interpretation of Paul's teachings will lead to contradictions with other teachings/examples in the Bible. This cannot be. It's definitely a wrong way to understand Paul's teachings.

Therefore, Paul's teachings cannot be interpreted literally/plainly. All his teachings must be taken into context, not just a few of his teachings at a time.

Paul's disclaimer:

1 Corinthians 9:19-23
Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

Pop quiz:

To those living under Patriarchy, Paul would?

[another mind is blown!]


..

 

[topher694]

Should wives also submit to their Husbands??

That's another million dollar question! The answer to this one goes back to the book of Genesis!

The answer is NO, not anymore....Jesus came to take away our burden which originated from Genesis, due to Man's sin.

So how do you define submission?

 

[Heavenhome]

Should wives also submit to their Husbands??

That's another million dollar question! The answer to this one goes back to the book of Genesis!

The answer is NO, not anymore....Jesus came to take away our burden which originated from Genesis, due to Man's sin.

Jesus took away the consequence of our sin which is death leading to eternal life: either in heaven or hell.
Women are still in submission to man, and all are under God.
This is the way Adam and Eve were created, yet still "man" thinks he knows better than God.
Only this week I have listened to a very interesting series by John MacArthur "The fulfilled family" which really made me think and understand our roles as set out by God.
It turns everything that our society sees as the way to be on its head.
I would recommend it to anyone interested.
Its free to listen to.

 

[timewerx]

Women are still in submission to man, and all are under God.
This is the way Adam and Eve were created,

Woman's submission to her husband is punishment for Eve's sin.

How would this be a punishment if that was the original arrangement?

Genesis 3:16
To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

One of Christ's mission is to free us from the chains of Adam's sin (heavy toil). But what most Christians don't realize, this included a woman's submission to her husband. Because from now on, we only have one leader, and that is Christ only.

That was God's original design. Before the fall of man, we all have the same leader - God. No man is above the other. No one is ruling over the other. We are all under God.

Paul is only speaking on the context of their culture which is quite Patriarchal in those times.

Otherwise, the other things that Paul said about women not supposed to preach would contradict other scriptures. This cannot be. Therefore, Paul's teachings cannot be literally interpreted.

 

[TechyinAZ]

Well, I think we are misunderstanding the word "submission" and we don't know exactly what it would be like without "punishment".

Because, God clearly says that he created woman from man and that woman is designed to be a help mate to the man. This is clear design, and I do not think this would mean that woman would boss around man or that she all of a sudden wouldn't be designed to assist man if the punishment didn't happen.

Plus I believe this is all temporary. We will not have sexes like we have here on earth, due to the verses where Christ says that we will not get married in heaven. We will be sexless in heaven.

Now that I've studied this topic more extensively, I've found that the bible supports women teaching as long as it is not overriding the authority of a man, AND not teaching in areas where men should only teach (being a pastor or elder comes to mind. 1st Timothy 2).

Remember, women and men are EQUAL. BUT that does NOT mean we have the same roles. Women have the role of assisting men, and men have the role of leading. But this does not make one more valuable than the other, which is something our culture seriously has issues with understanding.

Remember too, everything is by design and marriage mirrors what we as the Church are to God. Women represent in a sense, the church, and we represent in a sense Christ. Obviously we don't want to put ourselves in a role that overrides God's authority as that would be sin. (For example, us wanting to be gods.)

Again, women can teach and that is perfectly fine as long as she is not overriding the authority of male leadership.

 

[bekkilyn]

Well, I think we are misunderstanding the word "submission" and we don't know exactly what it would be like without "punishment".

Because, God clearly says that he created woman from man and that woman is designed to be a help mate to the man. This is clear design, and I do not think this would mean that woman would boss around man or that she all of a sudden wouldn't be designed to assist man if the punishment didn't happen.

Plus I believe this is all temporary. We will not have sexes like we have here on earth, due to the verses where Christ says that we will not get married in heaven. We will be sexless in heaven.

Now that I've studied this topic more extensively, I've found that the bible supports women teaching as long as it is not overriding the authority of a man, AND not teaching in areas where men should only teach (being a pastor or elder comes to mind. 1st Timothy 2).

Remember, women and men are EQUAL. BUT that does NOT mean we have the same roles. Women have the role of assisting men, and men have the role of leading. But this does not make one more valuable than the other, which is something our culture seriously has issues with understanding.

Remember too, everything is by design and marriage mirrors what we as the Church are to God. Women represent in a sense, the church, and we represent in a sense Christ. Obviously we don't want to put ourselves in a role that overrides God's authority as that would be sin. (For example, us wanting to be gods.)

Again, women can teach and that is perfectly fine as long as she is not overriding the authority of male leadership.

Ezer kenegdo does not mean “a helper subordinate to him” | Marg Mowczko

 

[trophy33]

Sooooo...... When Paul taught that women should not preach, should not lead, submit to husbands, on whose authority he's referring to????

Bible gives several reasons for this, for example:

1) The creation order:
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
1Tm 2:11

2) Because women are easier to be deceived:
And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
1Tm 2:14

3) Woman was created for man, not man for woman, its her purpose:
"Neither was man created for the sake of woman, but woman for the sake of man."
1Cor 11:9

4) Women are weaker (so they need leadership and protection of men)
1Pet 3:7

 

[TechyinAZ]

Ezer kenegdo does not mean “a helper subordinate to him” | Marg Mowczko

Yes that is also true. I didn't mean that women can ONLY help men. The bible also clearly states that the husband is to serve his wife too. Just like how Christ served the Church and sacrificed Himself for us.

I don't mean help in a slave type of way. But her primary purpose is to help and assist her husband. Again, like I said in my previous post, this does not mean she is inferior to man. Her assisting her husband is just as IMPORTANT as him leading her and the family

 

[timewerx]

Ezer kenegdo does not mean “a helper subordinate to him” | Marg Mowczko

I agree.

A lot of misinterpretations result when Bible readers don't look carefully enough (and unwilling to check the more original language translation - Greek/Hebrew) and doesnt consider the entirety of someone's teachings to form the right context.

 

[timewerx]

Bible gives several reasons for this, for example:

1) The creation order:
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
1Tm 2:11

2) Because women are easier to be deceived:
And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
1Tm 2:14

3) Woman was created for man, not man for woman, its her purpose:
"Neither was man created for the sake of woman, but woman for the sake of man."
1Cor 11:9

4) Women are weaker (so they need leadership and protection of men)
1Pet 3:7

Paul is speaking under the culture of that period which is Patriarchal.

Because those teachings if taken literally would contradict many teachings/examples in other parts of scriptures.

Read 1 Corinthians 9:19-23.

.

 

[TechyinAZ]

Paul is speaking under the culture of that period which is Patriarchal.

Because those teachings if taken literally would contradict many teachings/examples in other parts of scriptures.

Read 1 Corinthians 9:19-23.

.

So then, let me see if I'm understanding you correctly.

If Paul practiced sexual immortality and murder to save sexual immortals and murders for the sake of the gospel it is ok?? As an example of course.

I see no indication that Paul is speaking of the culture at the time. Please elaborate more, I genuinely would like to see where your coming from.

 

[timewerx]

If Paul practiced sexual immortality and murder to save sexual immortals and murders for the sake of the gospel it is ok?? As an example of course.

Obviously, Paul did not assimilate into the culture through actions but in his teachings.

I see no indication that Paul is speaking of the culture at the time. Please elaborate more, I genuinely would like to see where your coming from.

He never said it...

But why would he tell about 1 Corinthians 9:19-23 if he never practiced it?

.

 

[TechyinAZ]

Well, if he teaches it but he & we can't act on it. Then what's the point in teaching it?

When you say:
"Because those teachings if taken literally would contradict many teachings/examples in other parts of scriptures.

Read 1 Corinthians 9:19-23."

Give me an example of a scripture verse that directly contradicts 1st Corinthians 9:19-23 if you applied the wrong context your talking about, to that scripture verse. I think this is why I'm still confused. Thanks!!

 

[bekkilyn]

Yes that is also true. I didn't mean that women can ONLY help men. The bible also clearly states that the husband is to serve his wife too. Just like how Christ served the Church and sacrificed Himself for us.

I don't mean help in a slave type of way. But her primary purpose is to help and assist her husband. Again, like I said in my previous post, this does not mean she is inferior to man. Her assisting her husband is just as IMPORTANT as him leading her and the family

However, if you are giving him authority to lead, then you are automatically giving her inferior status as a subordinate to his leadership. It's not simply two different roles here; it is assigning him to be her superior. There is no implication in the Genesis account that they are to have two different roles. They are to share the same roles together. God did not come up with a whole different set of roles once Eve was created.

Personally, I don't even read this part of the creation account as having anything to do with roles, but more as God creating us all, animals and humans alike, for relationships...for community. We are social creatures and it is not good for us to live our lives alone, and this would be true regardless of whether we marry or remain single. For example, Paul remained single all of his life, but he still didn't go about his ministry alone but helped others, his brothers and sisters in Christ, as they helped him.