Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

[BCsenior]

Not all "Christians" have the Spirit, but all born again of the Spirit true Christians have the Spirit. I am beginning to think you use the term BAC a little too loosely, meaning any Christian is a BAC. That just isn't true. I was a "Christian" for 30 years before I was born again of the Spirit of Christ and received a brand new nature that is of the Spirit and no longer of the flesh.

Yes, the same happened to me!
So, what should we call a believer
who has received the Holy Spirit.
Isn't this being born a second time?
It seems everyone wants to call them
born-again Christians (BACs).
You didn't address ... Who is "in Christ"?

 

[bmjackson]

Hope you don't mind me weighing in, but a follower of Christ who has received the baptism, is now in Christ and is a Christian. All others can be called disciples but not yet or nearly Christians. They are not fully saved.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Yes, the same happened to me!
So, what should we call a believer
who has received the Holy Spirit.
Isn't this being born a second time?
It seems everyone wants to call them
born-again Christians (BACs).
You didn't address ... Who is "in Christ"?

and @bmjackson

The question should be what do we call those who believe in Jesus but have never received the Spirit?

There are followers of the law that keep the law in their own strength, like a Jew, and add belief that Jesus is their Savior and God. But they still struggle and use will power to keep the law. Why do they struggle? Because all these beliefs including Who Jesus is are all in their heads, but they have never been born again of the Spirit of Christ. (I call them "Christians" in name only, not in life; bmj calls them disciples - I wouldn't. I don't know if there is a word for them, except fake) You may say, they've ticked all the boxes, so why aren't they BAC? Because they've never truly surrendered to Christ and repented of all sin. Only then will Christ baptize them with His power and kill the old nature, replacing it with a brand new nature that hates sin, and loves their neighbors. Those are BAC.

Without the baptism of the Holy Spirit (do not confuse with what Pentecostals call the "second" baptism) they only have head knowledge, not heart knowledge, and are just keepers of the old law.

But when they truly repent of all sin, including hidden sexual sins and coveting, and Christ baptizes them with His own sinless Spirit, all things become new, and they do not care about old sins because they have no desire to sin. It is supernatural, and all of Jesus, nothing of ourselves. You don't have to struggle to walk in the Spirit, you just do. There is no other path to walk on. This is being "in Christ." IOW you've experienced the consummation of abiding in Jesus. You KNOW Him, and He KNOWS you.

Now to Pentecostals, there are other fillings after this initial one to kill the old man. Those are for ministry gifts of the Spirit. Between us it is all in semantics.

 

[bmjackson]

(I call them "Christians" in name only, not in life; bmj calls them disciples - I wouldn't.

I call them disciples because the Bible calls them so.

You don't have to struggle to walk in the Spirit, you just do. There is no other path to walk on.

Agree.

The "Pentecostal" baptism should be about holiness but they went away from that since the late 1800's and corrupted it.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I call them disciples because the Bible calls them so.

You mean the Bible called them disciples before they abandoned Him, and before the Day of Pentecost?

 

[1stcenturylady]

The "Pentecostal" baptism should be about holiness but they went away from that since the late 1800's and corrupted it.

That is not my experience. I was fake before I joined a Pentecostal church. But it was still 6 years before I received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. And you don't have to be in a Pentecostal church to repent of all sin and receive the Baptism. Many non-Pentecostals are free from sin, the number one result of the Baptism. Pentecostals go on from there to receive gifts that non-Pentecostals don't want.

 

[bmjackson]

You mean the Bible called them disciples before they abandoned Him, and before the Day of Pentecost?

Yes. We all abandon Him likewise before the Spirit indwells us. They were followers that's all. I struggled for a long time to find a name for them.

 

[bmjackson]

Many non-Pentecostals are free from sin, the number one result of the Baptism.

I agree that it is the number one result but I have yet to find any/many who are sinless. I also have not found any cessationists who do not accept a second blessing and who are sin free.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Yes. We all abandon Him likewise before the Spirit indwells us. They were followers that's all. I struggled for a long time to find a name for them.

I still don't have a good one. The quote marks I put around the name Christian is because I'm quoting what they say about themselves. Unfortunately, without the real baptism of the Holy Spirit, Jesus doesn't KNOW them.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I agree that it is the number one result but I have yet to find any/many who are sinless. I also have not found any cessationists who do not accept a second blessing and who are sin free.

That is because of the church age we live in, Laodecia. The majority are lukewarm, and the Spirit of Jesus is still on the outside knocking to get in. We can't go by what we see around us, but see the record of the real life of true Christians from the 1st century. The how to's are right there, and the first thing is REPENTANCE. That is the reason John the Baptist came FIRST, for repentance is the path to Jesus.

 

[Butch5]

Hey brother, could you give us some verses for your ideas?

There are none. As pointed out in the OP. When one believes their past sins are forgiven. This is why the apostles urged their readers to seek forgiveness when they sinned.

 

[1stcenturylady]

All sins for all time were paid for and forgiven,for the believing ones

How far are you going to take this? Do you believe a believer will murder, commit adultery, lie or steal? If those sins are paid for why not just commit them? If you were a practicing homosexual before Christ, are you still a practicing homosexual after believing? Are we all still just practicing sinners saved by grace?

 

[BCsenior]

The how to's are right there, and the first thing is REPENTANCE.

How about ...
the first and last thing is REPENTANCE?

 

[1stcenturylady]

How about ...
the first and last thing is REPENTANCE?

Why the last?

If your first repentance provided you with the Holy Spirit to empower you not to sin, and all your past sins are forgiven, what sin is the Holy Spirit going to lead you into?

 

[BCsenior]

Why the last?

If your first repentance provided you with the Holy Spirit to empower you not to sin, and all your past sins are forgiven, what sin is the Holy Spirit going to lead you into?

But, you're the only one who is perfect
and never sins.
IOW, you're the only one who always follows
the Spirit, while others slip up and sin.

Repentance is required for present and future sins ... although the #1 thing of importance
is one's heart attitude >>> striving to follow
the Spirit and NOT sin.

Because no one is perfect.
Jesus just asks us to try to be!
IOW, we have a goal to strive for.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

How far are you going to take this? Do you believe a believer will murder, commit adultery, lie or steal? If those sins are paid for why not just commit them? If you were a practicing homosexual before Christ, are you still a practicing homosexual after believing? Are we all still just practicing sinners saved by grace?

Romans 6 King James Version (KJV)
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

 

[Phil W]

I still don't have a good one. The quote marks I put around the name Christian is because I'm quoting what they say about themselves. Unfortunately, without the real baptism of the Holy Spirit, Jesus doesn't KNOW them.

Call "them" unrepentant.

 

[Phil W]

But, you're the only one who is perfect
and never sins.
IOW, you're the only one who always follows
the Spirit, while others slip up and sin.

Repentance is required for present and future sins ... although the #1 thing of importance
is one's heart attitude >>> striving to follow
the Spirit and NOT sin.

Because no one is perfect.
Jesus just asks us to try to be!
IOW, we have a goal to strive for.

If you "turn from" sin, repent, that is, more sins shows the repentance was a lie.
You can't forge a relationship with God that is based on a lie.

BTW, I am perfect and never sin. (Since my repentance from sin)
Thankfully I won't be judged for the bad knees and glasses I must wear, but for my representation of Christ on earth now.
Sinners can't do that.

 

[bmjackson]

@Phil W
Hi Phil I am interested in your testimony. Do you believe that one can fall from this position (and hopefully be restored) ?

 

[1stcenturylady]

But, you're the only one who is perfect
and never sins.
IOW, you're the only one who always follows
the Spirit, while others slip up and sin.

Repentance is required for present and future sins ... although the #1 thing of importance
is one's heart attitude >>> striving to follow
the Spirit and NOT sin.

Because no one is perfect.
Jesus just asks us to try to be!
IOW, we have a goal to strive for.

I know you know the scriptures. We live in the church age of Laodecia. Don't allow it to infect you with its cynicism. Be a Philadelphian and not only follow the Word, but to confirm the Word.

1 John 2:My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And IF (NOT WHEN) anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

There is a hint of something missing in that verse as to what type of sin John is talking about here. Did you catch it? Where is the repentance? And don't say 1 John 1:9 because that is how to become a Christian. ALL your (past carnal) sins are forgiven. At that point are baptized with the Spirit so we can "walk in the Spirit/light as Jesus is in the light, and have fellowship with one another (you and God) and the blood of Jesus cleanses you of all sin? (1:7) Again, no continual repentance.

Just as there are four or five Greek words for our one English word, love, I wish the Greeks were that diligent with the word, sin. You actually have to do a study on SIN to understand what a Christian doesn't have to confess after the initial repentance from all sin to receive the indwelling Holy Spirit.

1 John 2:1 is talking of the type of sin that doesn't require repentance. If you are walking along in the Spirit, what kind would that be?

One type it would NOT be is willful sin. 1 John 3:4 describes those as lawlessness; such as lying, stealing, committing, sorcery, adultery, harlotry, idolatry, homosexuality, murder, sins against your parents; any sin where there was no sacrifice to cover the committing of it in the Old Testament (our schoolmaster). They would kill them. 1 John 5:16-17 shows them as 'sins unto death.' And chapter 3 continues showing those are sins of the devil; certainly that person doesn't have the Holy Spirit. This is why in verse 3:9 a Christian cannot commit even once these sins of the devil. A person committing any of these shows they are not a Christian, because they do not have the Spirit of God indwelling them - they do not belong to Christ Romans 8:9. So, yes, you must REPENT of all sin if one finds themselves slaves to these sins, to become a Christian. Paul speaks very strongly against those who commit willful sin AFTER having been sanctified, and yet the Laodecian mindset it so cavalier about sin, they even plan to repent after they do what they want. I've actually heard girls going in for an abortion say, don't worry, I'll ask for forgiveness after. That is mocking God.

1 John 5:16-17 also says there is a sin NOT unto death. In our schoolmaster we also find that type called trespasses,(Leviticus 5:15); IOW not willfully committed that would require death. These are very minor that we commit (unwittingly) (unknowingly) (unintentionally) and there IS a sacrifice covering these trespasses (Numbers 15:22-29; however those committing (willful or defiantly) are cut off (killed or sent to die alone in the wilderness) verses 30-31. Notice in the sacrifice two elements - grain and drink. Make you think of anything? The Lord's Supper taken unworthily is with hidden known willful sin in your life. You must first prepare yourself through confession and repenance that if perchance God will grant you repentance. This is nothing to be taken lightly, as some have become sick and even die from partaking of the Lord's body with sin in your life. (unwillful trespasses are not in your life as the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us of them. It is all in the attitude - reckoning yourself dead to sin, and walking therefore always in the Spirit.

So you say no one is or can become perfect but Jesus? Where do you read that? Didn't Jesus command us to BE PERFECT, as My Father which is in heaven is perfect?

James 1:
2 Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 4 And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be PERFECT and complete, lacking in nothing.

Granted there may be some who have not been through hard trials that make us perfect, nor have been chastised by the Lord, but I certainly learned obedience through suffering for 12 years, plus the aftermath. It takes years. But when you are on the other side, you just want to go home to Jesus, because He is all you ever think about.