Can the Church Survive Without God's Word?

[Mary Meg]

Messenger RNA...you said body...

I still have no idea what you're talking about.

Scripture says that the Church is the Body od Christ.

 

[Tone]

I still have no idea what you're talking about.

Scripture says that the Church is the Body od Christ.

Okay, who made your physical body?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Think DNA or genetics.
For I believe he is asking what is the genetics of the body of Christ.
Currently, it is multi-cultural (i.e. Believers are from different nations), but it in the end or the everlasting state, it will be Jewish because Jeuss will raise the dead body of believers after His likenness.

 

[Mary Meg]

Okay, who made your physical body?

God did, through the natural physical processes of my parents' reproduction. But what does that have to do with anything?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

God did, through the natural physical processes of my parents' reproduction. But what does that have to do with anything?

Jesus will raise us bodily after His physical likeness. We will literally have the same DNA Jesus will have. So that means the body of Christ (the body of believers) will all one day physically be Jewish. This is important to understand because the Jews are tied to the Torah or the OT Holy Scriptures. These OT Scriptures (not church tradition nor Jewish tradition) had accurately foretold of the coming Messiah, Jesus Christ. So it all comes back to God's Word.

Jesus and His followers always quoted Scripture tons of times, and not once did they ever quote a "tradition" as we would understand that word today.

 

[Mary Meg]

Think DNA or genetics.
For I believe he is asking what is the genetics of the body of Christ.
Currently, it is multi-cultural (i.e. Believers are from different nations), but it in the end or the everlasting state, it will be Jewish because Jeuss will raise the dead body of believers after His likenness.

The Church is not a physical body. Saying the Church is the Body of Christ does not mean it is the same thing as Christ's physical, earthly body.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Church is not a physical body. Saying the Church is the Body of Christ does not mean it is the same thing as Christ's physical, earthly body.

Paul says there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body (See 1 Corinthians 15).
Anyways, do you deny that believers will one day be physcially resurrected bodily?

 

[Mary Meg]

Paul says there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body (See 1 Corinthians 15).
Anyways, do you deny that believers will one day be physcially resurrected bodily?

Why on Earth would you possibly think that I deny that?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Mary Meg

You also have to understand that Jesus and His followers always quoted Scripture tons of times, and not once did they ever quote a "tradition" as most people would understand that word today.

But are we to just believe "tradition" was there (as other churches teach) based upon just the one positive use of the word "tradition" in the Bible? The context in no way suggests that it is the church traditions that we see today. In fact, you would be hard pressed to find any of the church traditions done today anywhere in the Bible. Hence, this is the reason why there is the big fight against Sola Scriptura.

Folks cannot make an actual case for any of their church traditions in the Bible, and hence, this is the reason why they must naturallly be against Sola Scriptura (or the Bible alone).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Why on Earth would you possibly think that I deny that?

Because you said the church is not a physical body, and yet one day they will have all have a physical Jewish body (after the likeness of Christ) for all eternity. Even now the church has a physical body. They are made up of believers in different nations now.

 

[Mountainmike]

But then you wrongly describe the bible as the only part of the Word of God. Where passage by handing down ( tradition) and authority are also part of the word of God and predate the New Testament.

So the faith prospered for centuries before there was a New Testament and at least another millenium and a half before most could own and read a bible. It was certainly not dead. History answers your question.

Some in my other thread have begun to argue that the Bible is not strictly necessary. They said that if all the Bibles in the world were destroyed, the church would still survive. Could the church survive without God's word?

I think this question gets to the heart of the relationship between God's word and God's church. Catholics and EOs are wont to say: "Jesus didn't just leave us a Bible, he left us a church." They also want to say that the Bible and the church have an equal authority and even that the church wrote the Bible! In the Catholic and EO view, it sometimes seems to be the case that it's really the church that is most important, and the Bible is just a book that the church wrote.

But what would the church be without the word of God? Isn't it the word of God that creates and continually recreates the church? Isn't it the word of God that sustains the church? Isn't it the word of God that sanctifies the church and teaches the church?

Without the word of God, the church might still function in some traditional sense. It might go on to ordain bishops, sprinkle babies, lift up crackers to heaven and break them, etc. It might even have an unbroken line of ordination succession that can be traced back to the apostles! But without the word of God, the ministry of the church would not be able to help or save anybody. The church would become a dead institution that is utterly indistinguishable from the world.

Isn't this what happened to Israel in the time of Hosea? Though they were circumcised and had maintained certain Jewish traditions, they had become "Lo-Ammi" - not my people. Without God's word, we are not his people and he is not our God.

 

[bekkilyn]

No. I intentionally did not use that word. Because the Bible is not the Helper (or the Comforter). The Comforter is the Holy Spirit, who is God. The Bible is not God, and is not a person. The Bible is an inanimate collection of texts. That is not to say that the Bible is lifeless -- but the Bible is lifeless apart from the ministry of the Holy Spirit. The Bible "speaks," but only as the Holy Spirit speaks to us.

Wow, been gone all day and come back to find out that not only are they saying that Christ and the Bible are the same, but now the Bible has replaced the Holy Spirit as well! It's gotten worse than I thought!

 

[Tutorman]

Wow, been gone all day and come back to find out that not only are they saying that Christ and the Bible are the same, but now the Bible has replaced the Holy Spirit as well! It's gotten worse than I though!

Heresies are brewed here

 

[-Sasha-]

Because you said the church is not a physical body, and yet one day they will have all have a physical Jewish body (after the likeness of Christ) for all eternity. Even now the church has a physical body. They are made up of believers in different nations now.

This discussion has gotten kind of weird.

 

[akaDaScribe]

But then you wrongly describe the bible as the only part of the Word of God. Where passage by handing down ( tradition) and authority are also part of the word of God and predate the New Testament.

So the faith prospered for centuries before there was a New Testament and at least another millenium and a half before most could own and read a bible. It was certainly not dead. History answers your question.

At the same time, to the degree that history is accurate, that same church came to resemble the pharisees in many ways.

How many references are there to the old testament in the new testament? Who among us in modern times can can claim having attained understanding that rivals the apostles?

Who among us has wiser words than those attributed to Jesus. Why did they even bother assembling the new testament?

I appreciate that aspects of the letters, given that they were written to address specific churches within the context of their time, may warrant consideration given we are not steeped in the same culture.

But to claim that the writings are not of higher authority than modern opinions is to put those with their modern opinions above those who wrote the Bible. Maybe you believe what it says and maybe you don't, but if you do, I don't see anyone of the caliber of those who wrote the Bible walking around today.

 

[-Sasha-]

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."
"it doth not yet appear what we shall be"

 

[FenderTL5]

This discussion has gotten kind of weird.

Jason is trying to baffle Mary Meg with his nonsense. I think she's far too intelligent for that.

 

[bekkilyn]

Yep.......I'm getting amused to the point of hysterical laughter at some of the total dismissal of historical evidence that I'm reading on this thread!

I was beginning to think I was reading the Flat Earth thread and had to double check I was in this one.

 

[bekkilyn]

Heresies are brewed here

Conspiracies and heresies apparently!

 

[Tone]

I believe the "body of Christ" (which is the church's eternal physical existence) will one day exist after the genetics of Jesus Christ (Who is a Jew). Jesus will resurrect believers in Him to be after the physical flesh and blood that He has. Hence, why Jesus can be called our Everlasting Father (even though He is the Son or the second person of the Godhead or the Trinity).

Yeah, so when this corruption, puts on incorruption:

1 Corinthians 15:53
"52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come to pass: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

Until then, the Bible is where it's at!