Why are most Christians politically right wing?

[Sentinel Saint]

I wonder what would happen if higher education became easily accessible to all with having to sell grandma for the cash her organs might get. Would the blue bloods who maintain the same aristocracy as before the Revolution object ?

Fortunately education is more easily accessible than ever because of the advent of the internet! Just about everything is easily accessible these days with a quick search. I think too many people place credence in the indoctrination centers, aka colleges. These places of education are becoming more obsolete as time goes on and they offer more and more meaningless degrees. Barring some of the highly specialized fields of study, most people could easily self educate or take a more affordable path (community college, trade schools). People have been fooled into thinking that college is the only path forward when there are so many other choices out there these days. I'm also of the mind that someone with a college degree is not automatically smarter than one without. Usually the students just learn to regurgitate their teacher's opinions on a given subject. I hardly even remember anything I studied in college, to be honest - it was only after self teaching that I really started to make headway.

 

[timothyu]

in fact the vast majority of early Christians were among the poor and destitute,

Did you ever notice that the earliest followers of Jesus were servants, slave and women, all oppressed. To them it was a piece of cake to act in servitude to all as the Kingdom commanded. They were used to it.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I tend to prefer communities take this responsibility on instead of the government. Private charity goes a long way in helping out those in need and is very much in line with Biblical teaching. The problem I have is giving a corrupt government more control, because we all know that government is so effective at implementing programs! *Curses the inefficiencies of the DMV*

Private charity isn’t remotely large enough or comprehensive enough to handle the magnitude of the social services that our population need - that’s why government-funded welfare programs were started in the first place.

To give you some perspective, the federal government spent about $66.6 billion on food stamps in 2016. If my math is right (I’m just eyeballing an estimate) that’s more than the private support given to all top 100 US charities combined.

Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program - Wikipedia

The 100 Largest U.S. Charities

Do you mind naming a few so I can take a look? And also where are the inaccuracies? I would like to have the opportunity to have my mind changed or offer a counter argument if necessary.

Most of northern and western Europe.

 

[Sentinel Saint]

Private charity isn’t remotely large enough or comprehensive enough to handle the magnitude of the social services that our population need - that’s why government-funded welfare programs were started in the first place.
To give you some perspective, the federal government spent about $66.6 billion on food stamps in 2016. If my math is right (I’m just eyeballing an estimate) that’s more than the private support given to all top 100 US charities combined.

Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program - Wikipedia

The 100 Largest U.S. Charities

Actually, it technically could if more people would actually be willing to contribute, but sadly, most give up their social responsibilities to the government (kind of reminds me of the sex ed classes in school - it should be on the parents to educate their own kids). The government gets its money from our paychecks every month afterall, does it not? How successful have food stamps actually been? Has there been a noticeable trend toward getting these people off of food stamps and back into the work force or are people now increasingly dependent on government for their livelihood?

Most of northern and western Europe.

There's still an upper class and a poor class in these European countries, no? And I would argue that they rely on the US military for defensive needs and therefore have more to contribute to their social programs. They also benefit from our advances in medicine, by the way. These European countries don't have the freedoms we have either. You can be jailed or fined for speech (Count Dankula and Tommy Robinson come to mind) and they don't have the ability to defend themselves largely (2nd amendment).

 

[akaDaScribe]

1) Nobody was forcing these people to be "Believers" or to share their possessions - in fact the vast majority of early Christians were among the poor and destitute, and many faced persecution and martyrdom for their faith, under a succession of Roman emperors!

2) Much of America's legal system is based on the Judeo-Christian tradition - there isn't a separate legal system for non-Believers.

3) Given that the early "Believers" decided to share their possessions while, under the influence of the Holy Spirit, strongly suggests that God favored a communal societies based on equality/sharing - rather than those characterized by extreme inequality of "haves and have-nots!"

Point 1, we agree.

Point 2. I'm ok with.

Point 3. A society comprised of people with a generous spirit who willing give to others because they know God has provided for them is a beautiful thing. This is not the same as a government taking from some by force to give it to others and leveraging that behavior to gain allegiance of the receivers in order to impose its own godless world view upon the masses.

Things have been becoming increasingly gluttonous at the top. I submit that this has more to do with secularism than with our form of government.

If you don't think some animals are "more equal" in socialist and communist countries, you might want to ask around.

 

[jgarden]

I don't think that observing how the apostles traveled with Jesus, and then attempting to apply that by the avenue of Communism or the military translates. What next, should we take the apostles' fashion advice and wear sandals and a tunic?

What you are arguing is that for Christians, the Bible has no relevance in our daily lives, and that the words of Christ, the Apostles and the Prophets are nothing more than "ancient history!"

Should we dispense with the 10 Commandments - Moses and the Israelites were also wearing sandals and tunics!

 

[timothyu]

Why do people always assume some institution/organization has to administer charity work. Jesus said love neighbour as self. Small communities did it all the time, looking out for each other back in the day, lending a helping hand when needed. Wasn't a big deal until a nation became one big city and people withdrew themselves from their communities, losing the personal touch..

 

[iluvatar5150]

Actually, it technically could if more people would actually be willing to contribute.

Yeah, “if”.

But they aren’t.

The government gets its money from our paychecks every month afterall, does it not? How successful have food stamps actually been? Has there been a noticeable trend toward getting these people off of food stamps and back into the work force or are people now increasingly dependent on government for their livelihood?

The Wikipedia link I provided has a rather lengthy section on the impacts of the program. It is quite successful by a number of metrics.

There's still an upper class and a poor class in these European countries, no?

Yes, but AFAIK, the disparity is not as large as it is in the US.

And I would argue that they rely on the US military for defensive needs and therefore have more to contribute to their social programs.

Perhaps, but there’s a strong case to be made that we don’t need to spend nearly as much as we do. How many trillions have we spent on Iraq now? That would buy a lot of food stamps.

They also benefit from our advances in medicine, by the way.

um... k

We also benefit from theirs, and our research is mostly funded by the government.

These European countries don't have the freedoms we have either. You can be jailed or fined for speech (Count Dankula and Tommy Robinson come to mind) and they don't have the ability to defend themselves largely (2nd amendment).

Neither of those have anything to do with socialism, but regarding guns, the violent crime rates in those countries are a fraction of what ours are. UK, for example, has a murder rate roughly 1/4 of ours, and they’re well on the high end for that bunch. Several European countries have murder rates that are even well below that. What sort of “freedom “ is it when your countryis violent that arming for self-defense is a legitimate need?

 

[Romans 8]

What you are arguing is that for Christians, the Bible has no relevance in our daily lives, and that the words of Christ, the Apostles and the Prophets are nothing more than "ancient history!"

Should we dispense with the 10 Commandments - Moses and the Israelites were also wearing sandals and tunics!

What you are arguing is a strawman. Do you understand what a strawman is? Because you disagree with my point of view, you decided to make up a complete fabrication and attach my name to it. This is what it means to make a strawman. It's bearing false witness. Do you know where bearing false witness fits between the pages of the bible? It false under the ten commandments that you so boldly quoted.

 

[Romans 8]

Why do people always assume some institution/organization has to administer charity work. Jesus said love neighbour as self. Small communities did it all the time, looking out for each other back in the day, lending a helping hand when needed. Wasn't a big deal until a nation became one big city and people withdrew themselves from their communities, losing the personal touch..

Because they can't think logically and they want to be taken care of so they don't have to take responsibility for themselves. If the government takes from me and you, to provide for them, then they don't have to work or worry.

Folks, trust in God to provide for you, have faith. And give to your neighbor when he needs a hand. There's no need to ask for the government to rule over you because you have no faith.

 

[Speedwell]

What you are arguing is a strawman. Do you understand what a strawman is? Because you disagree with my point of view, you decided to make up a complete fabrication and attach my name to it. This is what it means to make a strawman. It's bearing false witness. Do you know where bearing false witness fits between the pages of the bible? It false under the ten commandments that you so boldly quoted.

Then what you have is a serious public relations problem because the impression made by the Christian Right is that their doctrines have little or nothing to do with the Gospel of Christ.

 

[timothyu]

Why is it those armed for defence still end up being the majority of the victims instead of their aggressors they armed themselves against?

 

[timothyu]

Because they can't think logically and they want to be taken care of so they don't have to take responsibility for themselves. If the government takes from me and you, to provide for them, then they don't have to work or worry.

I don't believe that response had anything to do with what I said. But point taken.

 

[DM25]

It surprises me that a startling number of people here are advocating for socialism - a system of government that has never succeeded and only led to ruin for the citizens. People are sadly quick to forget history these days. Socialism is a wolf in sheep's clothing and people tend to be easily fooled by politicians and the media who cleverly market this form of governance as being charitable. It's like when they label an evil such as abortion as "women's rights". The fluffy language disguises the true nature of said thing in order to gain the trust of the population and push the agenda.

Capitalism, while having flaws because of the sinful nature of humans, and the United States more specifically, has lifted more people out of poverty than any socialistic country ever has. One question for the pro socialists - which country has ever successfully implemented socialism in the past? Please use a different example than Norway and Sweden, because those aren't actually real socialistic systems. Not only are they moving towards capitalistic tendencies, but the people from those countries that immigrate to the US tend to be more successful when compared to those living in their native countries. Not to mention they hardly have a diverse population/cultural makeup when compared to America. Oh, and they're also one of those places that relies on the US military to protect them if things go south. It's no surprise that a lot of these "socialism light" areas have more money to throw at their social programs when they leech off of us for some of their needs.

Why would it be surprising? Jesus' teachings are rooted far more in socialism than capitalism... I'm not sure why you would think capitalism is better. Socialism is far more moral and biblical.

 

[DM25]

I'm not sure why you are putting quotes around something as if that is what I said, but-

If you don't understand why I am opposed to a system that is out to destroy my religion and make the government my god...

I'm not really sure how to respond to that.

That is not true. That is conspiracy and that is not what socialism is... That is an extreme case, a conspiracy, and not true socialism, but a separate topic altogether which I don't agree on. That has nothing to do with socialism, which is good and moral wealth distribution. The kingdoms of the early church were all socialist systems... The stock market didn't even get invented until like the 1700s... Come on man, don't read conspiracy theories so much and actually read the principles of socialism and realize they are selfless, good, and moral.

 

[DM25]

Based on what I've seen, every socialist country is heavily steeped in secularism and imposes that world view upon it's society. Maybe it's because it's goal is to replace God with government.
Marxist–Leninist atheism - Wikipedia

Every country today is secular except for some middle eastern countries. It has nothing to do with socialism, just the state of the world today. But if you want to make that argument, socialism has existed looong before the 20th century and Marx's principles (and I don't agree with Karl Marx, I know he was anti-Christian). But the general concept is something that I agree with. The concept has been around since the early church in many kingdoms with the populations believing in Jesus Christ. Wealth distribution (socialism) has been around forever. Back then it was the king or the church who would give back to the people for taxes paid, today it is the government. Same idea just a different time and way of doing things.

 

[DM25]

There are certain values and personality traits that lead one to both religiosity (particularly of the more authoritarian Protestant flavor) and conservative political beliefs. That in and of itself will create a fair amount of overlap.

Well I guess I'll consider myself blessed that I'm a born again Christian that doesn't have those personality traits, nor have I ever for that matter. I know some Christians who do and make the right wing their identity. I always question it but I respect everyone's political beliefs regardless... Your political views don't make you a Christian. Your belief in the gospel is what makes you one. I'm a firm believer in freedom of speech. I know my friend who is Christian is a right wing Trump supporter and even though I disagree with him I respect his bravery and not being afraid of speaking his mind especially when in today's climate.

 

[DM25]

Because they can't think logically and they want to be taken care of so they don't have to take responsibility for themselves. If the government takes from me and you, to provide for them, then they don't have to work or worry.

Folks, trust in God to provide for you, have faith. And give to your neighbor when he needs a hand. There's no need to ask for the government to rule over you because you have no faith.

Yikes. Are you gonna claim anyone who uses the roads and bridges paid for by taxes indicates they don't have enough faith? They don't have faith in God to not need a bridge and they should teleport to the other side by their faith? That's the biggest deflection ever. All of the prophets of the bible were ruled over governments, did they not have faith? You don't think God can provide for you by using the government? A miraculous healing and surgery by God couldn't have been helped by government-funded health care? It's not a faith issue at all... it's not a responsibility issue either, and it is massive straw man to say people who think it's a good idea are lazy. People who support the system do think logically, and think of their other brethren rather than just themselves. It is a system that benefits everyone, and that is absolutely moral to distribute wealth to help the poor.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

They chose the wrong side about opposing gay rights, too. This has already seriously damaged them as a social movement. I don't see any new rabbits they can pull out of their hat, they've sort of played all the moral panic cards, so I expect they will simply double down on abortion.

You could be right, but they may still come up with other things.

We are sort of seeing that, especially with the 2019 film Upnlanned, a masterpiece of propaganda that would make any Soviet commisar proud.

Absolutely. Not the first "Christian" movie to be blatantly misleading.

I'm sure you've seen the early 1960's film, Inherit the Wind? Fundamentalist religion simply wasn't all that respectable in the 20th century, people understood implicitly it could be crass and mean-spirited, and went against the sense of social trust most Americans believed in.

I must admit, I haven't actually seen the film. I probably should, I dare say I'd really like it! I have of course heard of it, though, and seen clips. We need more movies like that today!

 

[akaDaScribe]

That is not true. That is conspiracy and that is not what socialism is... That is an extreme case, a conspiracy, and not true socialism, but a separate topic altogether which I don't agree on. That has nothing to do with socialism, which is good and moral wealth distribution. The kingdoms of the early church were all socialist systems... The stock market didn't even get invented until like the 1700s... Come on man, don't read conspiracy theories so much and actually read the principles of socialism and realize they are selfless, good, and moral.

Ok, Strategy 1. accuse someone of being a conspiracy theorists because the people have been brainwashed into ignoring people if they are accused of being a conspiracy theorist.

Strategy 2. Refer to everything you don't like as something that happened long ago because people have been conditioned to thing what is older than is somehow socially inferior.

Marxist–Leninist atheism - Wikipedia