Why are most Christians politically right wing?

[timothyu]

Persecution has been a victimization tool successfully used for political purpose for a long time. Ask the Jews or minority groups that have prospered by way of victimization. Christians of a political bent are just getting around to jumping on the same bandwagon.

 

[RDKirk]

I see an opportunity to quote my friend, @JackRT, because I think what he said about an entitlement mentality among some Christians is spot on and I don't think I could have said it better myself.

I give full credit to Jack for this very insightful response... A fairly large block of my fellow Christians have what could be called an entitlement mentality. For a great many centuries we Christians have had things our own way and have controlled society to such an extent that we have been able to impose our own agenda without challenge. However, when minority groups started demanding and receiving rights that they had previously been denied, rights that Christians held all along, these same Christians felt threatened and some even claimed that they were being persecuted. Rights and freedoms are not part of a zero-sum game. Expanding them does not thereby reduce them for some other group. For example, extending marriage rights to homosexuals has not reduced the rights of heterosexuals in the slightest way. In reality Christians have lost no rights and are not threatened in any meaningful way. In Canada and the USA Christians are certainly not being persecuted.

Except when you see the game is really a cultural turf war involving a lot more than religion. They are losing dominance of what they considered their turf, which they had tagged with their gang signs.

Jesus is not their way of life, Jesus is just their gang sign.

 

[rjs330]

Then, (and here we get back on topic), why have Christians in the USA been so active in politics for the last forty years, if not to get a “golden rule” government?

As you can see from this thread Christians have all kinds of political leanings. There are liberal Christians, moderate Christians and conservative Christians. The political leanings are usually based on what they believe a government should be doing or shouldn't be doing. The Bible doesn't say anything about what kind of government or political philosophy is best. The Bible doesn't say thou shalt have this or that kind of government. It does tell us to be wise and recognize evil.

So those that are liberal like socialism. Those that are conservative like the constitutional form of government we have. Those that are moderate usually range somewhere in-between while leaning more one way that the other.

So you see we all want to be involved in our political process. The Bible doesn't prohibit it.
Conservatives are generally for more freedom from government. Liberals are more for more government control.

Both sides will use the Golden rule as a support for their beliefs.

 

[rjs330]

Except when you see the game is really a cultural turf war involving a lot more than religion. They are losing dominance of what they considered their turf, which they had tagged with their gang signs.

Jesus is not their way of life, Jesus is just their gang sign.

That seems rather judgemental.

 

[rjs330]

Except when you see the game is really a cultural turf war involving a lot more than religion. They are losing dominance of what they considered their turf, which they had tagged with their gang signs.

Jesus is not their way of life, Jesus is just their gang sign.

That comes across as pretty judgemental. What gives you the authority to address fellow believers and tell them Jesus is not their way of life? Because a believer speaks out against sin suddenly Jesus is a gang sign? I guess Paul was a gang member.

 

[RDKirk]

That comes across as pretty judgemental. What gives you the authority to address fellow believers and tell them Jesus is not their way of life? Because a believer speaks out against sin suddenly Jesus is a gang sign? I guess Paul was a gang member.

All of the people in this photograph claimed to be Christians, as everyone in central Indiana did. I don't believe for a moment the Holy Spirit was in any of them, or they could not have tolerated being there. If these people died without repenting of this night, they went to hell.

The culture that claimed this action was compatible with Christianity did not have Jesus as their way of life, they merely had Jesus as their gang sign.

https://www.blackpast.org/wp-content/uploads/1547739360-3749-ion--Indiana-Lynchings--1930.jpg

 

[JackRT]

All of the people in this photograph claimed to be Christians, as everyone in central Indiana did. I don't believe for a moment the Holy Spirit was in any of them, or they could not have tolerated being there. If these people died without repenting of this night, they went to hell.

The culture that claimed this action was compatible with Christianity did not have Jesus as their way of life, they merely had Jesus as their gang sign.

https://www.blackpast.org/wp-content/uploads/1547739360-3749-ion--Indiana-Lynchings--1930.jpg

What strikes me is the utter banality of evil. The people in the photograph are relatives, neighbours, friends --- just ordinary folks that sing beside you in church. We look at Nazi Germany and suddenly realize that that we in the USA or Canada are equally capable of the same evil.

 

[rjs330]

All of the people in this photograph claimed to be Christians, as everyone in central Indiana did. I don't believe for a moment the Holy Spirit was in any of them, or they could not have tolerated being there. If these people died without repenting of this night, they went to hell.

The culture that claimed this action was compatible with Christianity did not have Jesus as their way of life, they merely had Jesus as their gang sign.

https://www.blackpast.org/wp-content/uploads/1547739360-3749-ion--Indiana-Lynchings--1930.jpg

But you were not talking about people who were committing murder when you write the post we're you. There was NOTHING in your post or the one you were quoting that said anything about murderers. As I pointed out saying something is sinful is not using Jesus as a gang sign. The murderers in your photo that called themselves Christians were just that, murderers and we know that murderers will not inherit the kingdom of God.

You were not just calling murderers unchristian.

 

[RDKirk]

But you were not talking about people who were committing murder when you write the post we're you. There was NOTHING in your post or the one you were quoting that said anything about murderers. As I pointed out saying something is sinful is not using Jesus as a gang sign. The murderers in your photo that called themselves Christians were just that, murderers and we know that murderers will not inherit the kingdom of God.

You were not just calling murderers unchristian.

But they weren't murderers in their culture gang. They were good folk doing the righteous thing, and their Jesus told them so. And right up to today, they haven't changed their culture or their rationale or their Jesus. It's the same culture gang that did this within my own memory:

And they still used Jesus as their rationale, and those people--those very individuals--continue to use Jesus as their rationale with not the slightest hint of repentance.

They're using Jesus as their gang sign, but no, I'm not calling them Christian.

 

[Pommer]

But they weren't murderers in their culture gang. They were good folk doing the righteous thing, and their Jesus told them so. And right up to today, they haven't changed their culture or their rationale or their Jesus. It's the same culture gang that did this within my own memory:

And they still used Jesus as their rationale, and those people--those very individuals--continue to use Jesus as their rationale with not the slightest hint of repentance.

They're using Jesus as their gang sign, but no, I'm not calling them Christian.

It’s telling that people are upset over you pointing out that “Jesus=gang-sign”
rather than being upset that the Lords Name is being vainly used.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

You see that Christ recognized that we would give. He knew we would be generous on our own. He also doesn't say how much we should give. Note he also doesn't say when you give taxes. It says almns. Nor does Jesus ever state that we should petition the government to take my neighbors money to give away.

He says THIS about taxes in addition to what he says about alms:
Romans 1
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

Pretty clear, pay taxes to the government and respect the government's authority to serve and protect us on God's behalf with His authority.

Since we are also going to be supporting the idea of a socialist system where those in need are supported by redistribution of wealth then it makes sense to encourage our government to adopt this kind of system for various certain programs.

I can see an atheist being against socialist programs because atheism permits one to be selfish, but Christianity teaches the opposite. Christianity teaches selflessness. As it is we are too selfish, even as Christians, so the least we can do is support socialist programs in our democratic government so that those programs can help the ones we're supposed to love and care about helping.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

They're using Jesus as their gang sign, but no, I'm not calling them Christian.

Jesus is one of their many gang signs along with the American Flag, bald eagle, patriotic slogans, etc. None of those things are bad in and of themselves, they might even be good, but they are used as gang signs and become hollow and fake.

 

[rjs330]

But they weren't murderers in their culture gang. They were good folk doing the righteous thing, and their Jesus told them so. And right up to today, they haven't changed their culture or their rationale or their Jesus. It's the same culture gang that did this within my own memory:

And they still used Jesus as their rationale, and those people--those very individuals--continue to use Jesus as their rationale with not the slightest hint of repentance.

They're using Jesus as their gang sign, but no, I'm not calling them Christian.

And I don't call them Christian either.

But my point stands. You were not talking about those people in your response to Shiloh. You guys were talking about current believers who happen to disagree with homosexuals and others.

 

[rjs330]

It’s telling that people are upset over you pointing out that “Jesus=gang-sign”
rather than being upset that the Lords Name is being vainly used.

It's telling that you guys still aren't being honest about the post. Mine or his. His post was in response to people who disagree with homosexuals. Nothing in the post he responded to said anything about murdering. He didn't say anything about murdering.

I do whole heartedly agree that murderers will not inherit the kingdom. I disagree with his assessment of modern day believers that they are not true Christians if they happen to disagree with homosexual marriage.

 

[rjs330]

He says THIS about taxes in addition to what he says about alms:
Romans 1
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

Pretty clear, pay taxes to the government and respect the government's authority to serve and protect us on God's behalf with His authority.

Since we are also going to be supporting the idea of a socialist system where those in need are supported by redistribution of wealth then it makes sense to encourage our government to adopt this kind of system for various certain programs.

I can see an atheist being against socialist programs because atheism permits one to be selfish, but Christianity teaches the opposite. Christianity teaches selflessness. As it is we are too selfish, even as Christians, so the least we can do is support socialist programs in our democratic government so that those programs can help the ones we're supposed to love and care about helping.

All that Paul is doing there is saying we should follow the laws of the land including paying our taxes. And we should. He is NOT advocating for a socialist government. He is not advocating for a republic or a democracy either.

Nowhere is scripture does it say that we should demand that the government distribute wealth by taking it from one person and giving it to another. That is NOT biblical. What IS biblical is that we as the church should give out of our own pockets according to our own conscience to people in need.

Here’s the point: he who plants sparingly also harvests sparingly.Each should give according to what he has decided in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.Moreover, God has the power to provide you with every gracious gift in abundance, so that always in every way you will have all you need yourselves and be able to provide abundantly for every good cause — - 2 Corinthians 9:6-8 Bible Gateway passage: 2 Corinthians 9:6-8 - Complete Jewish Bible

 

[RDKirk]

It's telling that you guys still aren't being honest about the post. Mine or his. His post was in response to people who disagree with homosexuals. Nothing in the post he responded to said anything about murdering. He didn't say anything about murdering.

I do whole heartedly agree that murderers will not inherit the kingdom. I disagree with his assessment of modern day believers that they are not true Christians if they happen to disagree with homosexual marriage.

It's the same culture gang. All of these are merely details and gang signs, and their real issue isn't the righteousness of Jesus, it's the fear of losing their cultural dominance.

If they were really operating in the interests of Jesus, their main concern would be sponsoring as many Christians into the country--whether Spanish-speaking or not. If they were really operating in the interests of Jesus, their main concern would be displaying a City of God so lovely and loving that even men who didn't want to be part of it would envy those who were.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Nowhere is scripture does it say that we should demand that the government distribute wealth by taking it from one person and giving it to another. That is NOT biblical. What IS biblical is that we as the church should give out of our own pockets according to our own conscience to people in need.

Nowhere in scripture does it say that we should demand that the government prohibit abortions. Nowhere in scripture does it say that we should demand that the government make killing or stealing illegal. Nowhere in scripture does it say we should demand the government make ANY kind of law or program whatsoever. But you want to use that argument to argue against one thing that doesn't fit your politics. Well, it doesn't work that way.

In the same way a Christian who is pro-life will do whatever he can to "demand that the government" make abortion illegal, so too will a Christian who is in favor of helping the needy do whatever he can to "demand that the government" help the needy.

Of course, we both know that your term "demand that the government" do whatever is just exaggeration because you want to make it sound like it's some big scary socialist boogeyman. In the case of abortion or helping the needy through socialist programs nobody can "demand that the government" do anything. We can only take part in the democratic process and hope that our efforts result in what we want our government to do.

So do you have the same approach about abortions, or drugs, or prostitution, or any other things we have laws about, i.e. that no Christian should use their Christian beliefs as a basis to support in our democratic process a law or initiative that is in line with their beliefs, because the Bible doesn't say "thou shalt demand that the government do that which I have commanded you"???

Here’s the point: he who plants sparingly also harvests sparingly.Each should give according to what he has decided in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.Moreover, God has the power to provide you with every gracious gift in abundance, so that always in every way you will have all you need yourselves and be able to provide abundantly for every good cause — - 2 Corinthians 9:6-8 Bible Gateway passage: 2 Corinthians 9:6-8 - Complete Jewish Bible

So this passage means don't worry about giving to the needy, poor, sick, children, elderly because if they plant sparingly they must then harvest sparingly? And because God has the power to provide them with every gracious gift in abundance so we never should give to those in need because of this?

These are the excuses people make and the ways they cherry pick from the Bible while ignoring other verses that command us to give to the needy. Sorry, I don't buy it when God's Word is so abundantly clear that it is our duty to help those in need.

Those who make the same arguments you make fail to make the connection between justice and mercy which is at the heart of the Gospel and God's Word. We are taught that the wages of sin is death and that he who plants sparingly also harvests sparingly. We are taught in the same Bible that by God's mercy we are saved from death (which is the rightful result of our sin) and it teaches that the needy ought to be helped so that they harvest more than they have planted because we ought to show God's mercy in what we do.

Bottom line is that money shouldn't be so important to a Christian that they would be so cheap so as to want people to suffer so that they can save a few bucks and that's what people are doing when they don't support government initiatives to help the needy. That's the point of money-worship.

Do you truly believe that God has the power to provide you with every gracious gift in abundance, so that always in every way you will have? I do. That's why I am happy to advocate and support laws and economic policies that support the needy with money from my taxes. Because money is not the be-all end-all in my life. God is who can deliver whatever I need. Money does not. I know that if the government takes more of my money and it is to help the needy then God will also take care of me without that money that I am "losing". It's not my money. It's not your money, either. It doesn't belong to any of the people who have it. So why are you so worried about the money when people who are in need can benefit from it? God will take care of you. Or do you have doubts about that???

 

[rjs330]

It's the same culture gang. All of these are merely details and gang signs, and their real issue isn't the righteousness of Jesus, it's the fear of losing their cultural dominance.

If they were really operating in the interests of Jesus, their main concern would be sponsoring as many Christians into the country--whether Spanish-speaking or not. If they were really operating in the interests of Jesus, their main concern would be displaying a City of God so lovely and loving that even men who didn't want to be part of it would envy those who were.

So then I am right. Here you tried to.make it look like i somehow supported those that murdered people. When I was actually challenging you in regards to accusing those who didn't support homosexual marriage as treating Jesus as a gang sign. You equated those with those that committed murder. Shame on you.

Once again you misrepresent right wing believers. Not very Christ like yourself. We are all in support of having good people here. Spanish speaking or not. We just want them to come legally. Asking all people to follow the law is very biblical. You again make judgements on people regarding culture. That's not good.

We love legal immigrants. I'm an immigrant. I come from a direct immigrant family. My dad and his brother we're immigrants. But we all arrived legally. We sponsered my mother in law to come here.

Your doing exactly what you accuse others of doing. I think the Bible says something about that.

 

[rjs330]

Nowhere in scripture does it say that we should demand that the government prohibit abortions. Nowhere in scripture does it say that we should demand that the government make killing or stealing illegal. Nowhere in scripture does it say we should demand the government make ANY kind of law or program whatsoever. But you want to use that argument to argue against one thing that doesn't fit your politics. Well, it doesn't work that way.

In the same way a Christian who is pro-life will do whatever he can to "demand that the government" make abortion illegal, so too will a Christian who is in favor of helping the needy do whatever he can to "demand that the government" help the needy.

Of course, we both know that your term "demand that the government" do whatever is just exaggeration because you want to make it sound like it's some big scary socialist boogeyman. In the case of abortion or helping the needy through socialist programs nobody can "demand that the government" do anything. We can only take part in the democratic process and hope that our efforts result in what we want our government to do.

So do you have the same approach about abortions, or drugs, or prostitution, or any other things we have laws about, i.e. that no Christian should use their Christian beliefs as a basis to support in our democratic process a law or initiative that is in line with their beliefs, because the Bible doesn't say "thou shalt demand that the government do that which I have commanded you"???


So this passage means don't worry about giving to the needy, poor, sick, children, elderly because if they plant sparingly they must then harvest sparingly? And because God has the power to provide them with every gracious gift in abundance so we never should give to those in need because of this?

These are the excuses people make and the ways they cherry pick from the Bible while ignoring other verses that command us to give to the needy. Sorry, I don't buy it when God's Word is so abundantly clear that it is our duty to help those in need.

Those who make the same arguments you make fail to make the connection between justice and mercy which is at the heart of the Gospel and God's Word. We are taught that the wages of sin is death and that he who plants sparingly also harvests sparingly. We are taught in the same Bible that by God's mercy we are saved from death (which is the rightful result of our sin) and it teaches that the needy ought to be helped so that they harvest more than they have planted because we ought to show God's mercy in what we do.

Bottom line is that money shouldn't be so important to a Christian that they would be so cheap so as to want people to suffer so that they can save a few bucks and that's what people are doing when they don't support government initiatives to help the needy. That's the point of money-worship.

Do you truly believe that God has the power to provide you with every gracious gift in abundance, so that always in every way you will have? I do. That's why I am happy to advocate and support laws and economic policies that support the needy with money from my taxes. Because money is not the be-all end-all in my life. God is who can deliver whatever I need. Money does not. I know that if the government takes more of my money and it is to help the needy then God will also take care of me without that money that I am "losing". It's not my money. It's not your money, either. It doesn't belong to any of the people who have it. So why are you so worried about the money when people who are in need can benefit from it? God will take care of you. Or do you have doubts about that???

Your right. And that's my point. You have a right to ask the government for a socialistic government. You have a right to ask for anti-abortion laws. But you do not have a right to claim the Bible supports you demanding socialism as if Jesus or the apostles said it's a biblical mandate. It's not.

Wish for socialism as a type of governance. Petition for it. But don't claim it's biblical because it's not. Any more than a republic is biblical.

You don't have to convince me that the Bible tells us to help the needy. I know it does. But you keep going in and on about it as if you are trying to convince me. You don't need to. I'm convinced because the Bible teaches us to. It just doesn't teach that socialism is the right way to do it.

 

[rjs330]

Nowhere in scripture does it say that we should demand that the government prohibit abortions. Nowhere in scripture does it say that we should demand that the government make killing or stealing illegal. Nowhere in scripture does it say we should demand the government make ANY kind of law or program whatsoever. But you want to use that argument to argue against one thing that doesn't fit your politics. Well, it doesn't work that way.

In the same way a Christian who is pro-life will do whatever he can to "demand that the government" make abortion illegal, so too will a Christian who is in favor of helping the needy do whatever he can to "demand that the government" help the needy.

Of course, we both know that your term "demand that the government" do whatever is just exaggeration because you want to make it sound like it's some big scary socialist boogeyman. In the case of abortion or helping the needy through socialist programs nobody can "demand that the government" do anything. We can only take part in the democratic process and hope that our efforts result in what we want our government to do.

So do you have the same approach about abortions, or drugs, or prostitution, or any other things we have laws about, i.e. that no Christian should use their Christian beliefs as a basis to support in our democratic process a law or initiative that is in line with their beliefs, because the Bible doesn't say "thou shalt demand that the government do that which I have commanded you"???


So this passage means don't worry about giving to the needy, poor, sick, children, elderly because if they plant sparingly they must then harvest sparingly? And because God has the power to provide them with every gracious gift in abundance so we never should give to those in need because of this?

These are the excuses people make and the ways they cherry pick from the Bible while ignoring other verses that command us to give to the needy. Sorry, I don't buy it when God's Word is so abundantly clear that it is our duty to help those in need.

Those who make the same arguments you make fail to make the connection between justice and mercy which is at the heart of the Gospel and God's Word. We are taught that the wages of sin is death and that he who plants sparingly also harvests sparingly. We are taught in the same Bible that by God's mercy we are saved from death (which is the rightful result of our sin) and it teaches that the needy ought to be helped so that they harvest more than they have planted because we ought to show God's mercy in what we do.

Bottom line is that money shouldn't be so important to a Christian that they would be so cheap so as to want people to suffer so that they can save a few bucks and that's what people are doing when they don't support government initiatives to help the needy. That's the point of money-worship.

Do you truly believe that God has the power to provide you with every gracious gift in abundance, so that always in every way you will have? I do. That's why I am happy to advocate and support laws and economic policies that support the needy with money from my taxes. Because money is not the be-all end-all in my life. God is who can deliver whatever I need. Money does not. I know that if the government takes more of my money and it is to help the needy then God will also take care of me without that money that I am "losing". It's not my money. It's not your money, either. It doesn't belong to any of the people who have it. So why are you so worried about the money when people who are in need can benefit from it? God will take care of you. Or do you have doubts about that???

Where on Earth did you get the idea that I think the scripture I shared tells us that we don't have to worry about the needy because they sowed sparingly? I think that's your ideology talking. Those verses don't say anything like that. I never said anything like that.

Here’s the point: he who plants sparingly also harvests sparingly.Each should give according to what he has decided in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. - 2 Corinthians 9:6-7 Bible Gateway passage: 2 Corinthians 9:6-7 - Complete Jewish Bible

I think the scripture speaks for itself. All believers should give individually according to what they have decided in their own hearts not under compulsion. Which is what socialism is. Compulsive giving.

And as believers we should give voluntarily and CHEERFULLY. We should know that God rewards a cheerful and generous giver. Why? Because it wasn't under compulsion but from a generous voluntary choice.