Replacement Theology Refuted

[claninja]

Both of these scriptures cite a future time when God will dwell with man, prophesying Revelation 21:1-7

"are" is present tense. It is not "ye will be the temple of the living God" , it is "ye ARE the temple of the living God".
2 Corinthians 6:16 for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Not yet, but soon after the Lord's Day of fiery wrath has removed all the evil neighbors, including the apostate Jews. Jeremiah 12:14, Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Revelation 6:12-17
Romans 9:24-27 states perfectly clear facts: it will be in the holy Land, where we Christians will be told: You are the sons of the Living God.
Jewish Israel will be gone; only a remnant will survive.

"we are" is present tense. "we ARE the children of God".
Romans 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

Notice Paul wrote to "all those in Rome who are loved by God".
Romans 1:7 To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints:
_____________________________________________________________________________

"you are" is present tense. "you ARE all sons of God".
Galatians 3:26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

Notice Paul wrote to "the churches of Galatia".
Galatians 1:1-2 Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead— 2and all the brothersa who are with me, To the churches of Galatia:

Those who lived in Rome and Galatia were already called sons of God in the 1st century, so I disagree with your assertion that Gentiles have to wait to move to the land of Israel before they can become sons of God.

Romans 9:24-27 states perfectly clear facts: it will be in the holy Land, where we Christians will be told: You are the sons of the Living God.
Jewish Israel will be gone; only a remnant will survive.

Where did God state "you are not my people"? what was the location? Well, since it was prophesied by Hosea, it was most likely somewhere in the northern kingdom. However, the exact location is never explicitly given.

Romans 9:26 And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”

Peter received a vision in Joppa (northern Kingdom of Israel) that gentiles were clean

Acts 10:5 Now send men to Joppa to call for a man named Simon who is called Peter. He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea.”

The Spirit, who testifies that we are the children of God, came to the gentiles in Caesarea (northern kingdom of Israel)

Acts 10:45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles

The gentiles were publically declared God's people in Jerusalem.
Acts 11:18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”

**So I disagree with your assertion that gentiles are not yet sons of God and must wait until they have to move to Israel, because God declared the gentiles his people in Israel in the 1st century by giving them the spirit.

I now ask you to explain why you reject this scenario and to provide clear scriptures for whatever scenario that you believe in.

I reject the present earthly land of Israel has the eternal destination because none of the epistles mention that as the destination.

Paul states our citizenship is in heaven
philippians 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus
Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Paul states are home from God that is eternal, is in the heavens.
2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens

Paul was looking forward to the day he would brought into the heavenly kingdom.
2 Timothy 4:18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed and bring me safely into his heavenly kingdom.

If Abraham was thinking of the Land of Ur, he could have returned home from the land of Israel, but he wasn't, he was looking for a heavenly country.
Hebrews 11:14 Now those who say such things show that they are seeking a country of their own. If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. Instead, they were longing for a better country, a heavenly one.

David, who was king of Israel at its peak, even stated he was a foreigner and sojourner, thus showing that the physical land of Israel is not the eternal destination.
1 Chronicles 29:15 For we are foreigners and sojourners in Your presence, as were all our forefathers. Our days on earth are like a shadow, without hope.


Abraham, with his eyes, saw the land he would give his offspring (Jesus) forever.
Genesis 13:15 for all the land that you see I will give to you and to your offspring forever.

However, God also stated that NO EYE HAS SEEN what he has prepared fro those who love him.
1 Corinthians 2:9 But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”—

 

[Jerryhuerta]

So what is your point? I don't understand how this relates to Paul saying, “For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” (2 Corinthians 1:20) = Only in Christ do any experience the promise made to Abraham.

What I’ve been substantiating is that the gentiles are made fellow citizens through Christ and the assistance of the elect biological descendants of Abraham (Genesis 22:18). The prophets provide a progressive revelation of the fulfillment of Genesis 22:18 through Christ and the assistance of Ephraim/Israel.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

There is no mention or implication of biology in Galatians 3 or anywhere else. The promises were to Christ (Galatians 3:16) and those in Christ (Galatians 3:28,29).

No RB there or anywhere else.

You also continue to ignore the reality of Abrahamic genetic ubiquity.

Your take on Galatian 3:16 is that the promises to Abraham were just to Christ and his church and not to the biological descendants of Israel because of the conditions of the Old Covenant, which is supersessionism. The conclusion of your interpretation maintains that all the biological descendant from Moses until the first advent have no part in eternal life since the seed and promises pertain strictly to Christ and his church. Your conclusion maintains there are no elect descendants of Abraham under the Mosaic covenant. Yet, if you protest against this conclusion and concede that the promises were also the elect biological descendants of Israel prior to Christ’s first advent, then you also concede to THT and that the “seed” in Genesis 22:18 also represents the all the elect biological descendants of Abraham. The only viable conclusion that agrees with all scripture is that the “seed” in Genesis 22:18 also represents the all the elect biological descendants of Abraham.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

so it seems the main difference in our belief is that I believe we go to heaven, while you believe heaven comes down to us.



I agree that revelation cannot contradict scriptures. But your "greek tenses often denote accomplishment of an act yet consummated in the future" is not always true.

In revelation 5:9, the greek verb purchased is past tense. Which is consistent with work that was already done at the cross.

Revelation 5:9 for you were slain, and by your blood you purchased people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 You are not your own, for you were purchased with a price. So glorify God in your body.

The greek word for "you have made" is the same tense as "you purchased". As they are in the same context, I would argue that your "consummated in the future" does not apply here. Additionally, since peter calls his audience a ROYAL priest hood in the first century, I would argue that revelation 5:9-10 does not need to wait for a future fulfillment, but became a reality in the first century at the cross.

revelation 5:10 and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.”

1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.



God already dwells with us on earth, his footstool.

Ephesians 2:22 And in Him you too are being built together into a dwelling place for God in His Spirit.

2 Corinthians 6:16 For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them
and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be My people



This all depends on how one views the kingdom of God.

Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven” in Matthew 6:10

You shouldn’t have stated in post #253 that the gathering and sowing of Ephraim in Zechariah 10:8-9: “be a gathering to Christ and a sowing of the great commission.” For such a concession substantiates premillennialism and that the age to come is the kingdom to come. It concedes that restoration of Israel comes with the age to come and that God is not finished with the biological descendants of Abraham. It substantiates that the meek inherit the earth, not heaven (Matthew 5:5).

 

[jgr]

Your take on Galatian 3:16 is that the promises to Abraham were just to Christ and his church and not to the biological descendants of Israel because of the conditions of the Old Covenant, which is supersessionism. The conclusion of your interpretation maintains that all the biological descendant from Moses until the first advent have no part in eternal life since the seed and promises pertain strictly to Christ and his church. Your conclusion maintains there are no elect descendants of Abraham under the Mosaic covenant. Yet, if you protest against this conclusion and concede that the promises were also the elect biological descendants of Israel prior to Christ’s first advent, then you also concede to THT and that the “seed” in Genesis 22:18 also represents the all the elect biological descendants of Abraham. The only viable conclusion that agrees with all scripture is that the “seed” in Genesis 22:18 also represents the all the elect biological descendants of Abraham.

The promises were, are, and ever will be, to Christ and those in Christ, irrespective of ancestry and biology. Scripture is unequivocal that faith and obedience exclusively are God's only covenant conditions and criteria. Pedigree never has and never will save anyone.

You continue to ignore the reality of Abrahamic genetic ubiquity.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

The promises were, are, and ever will be, to Christ and those in Christ, irrespective of ancestry and biology. Scripture is unequivocal that faith and obedience exclusively are God's only covenant conditions and criteria. Pedigree never has and never will save anyone.

You continue to ignore the reality of Abrahamic genetic ubiquity.

Your perception is that there were no elect prior to Christ? Any concession to the contrary maintains God chose, elected, a family, Abraham and his descendants, to be a blessing to the elect gentiles. The scriptures substantiate the latter.

And your Abrahamic genetic ubiquity is man's perception and not God's.

 

[jgr]

Your perception is that there were no elect prior to Christ? Any concession to the contrary maintains God chose, elected, a family, Abraham and his descendants, to be a blessing to the elect gentiles. The scriptures substantiate the latter.

And your Abrahamic genetic ubiquity is man's perception and not God's.

Genesis 17:12 substantiates the nonethnicity of God's covenants.

And God is the creator of the human genome, the discipline of mathematics, and Abrahamic genetic ubiquity.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

Genesis 17:12 substantiates the nonethnicity of God's covenants.

And God is the creator of the human genome, the discipline of mathematics, and Abrahamic genetic ubiquity.

As I stated, this doesn't overcome that the inclusion of gentiles was limited until Christ came to break the wall of partition between the descendants of Abraham and the gentiles, and circumcision was part of that wall. Circumcision separated the house of Abraham from all the other families of the earth. God chose, elected, a family, Abraham and his descendants, to be a blessing to the elect gentiles; the scriptures substantiate this.

 

[jgr]

the inclusion of gentiles was limited

What Scripture states that?

 

[Jerryhuerta]

What Scripture states that?

Circumcision discouraged the inclusion of the gentiles. Acts and Galatians testify that it was still a problem until the councils, through revelation, decided to abolish it.

 

[jgr]

Circumcision discouraged the inclusion of the gentiles. Acts and Galatians testify that it was still a problem until the councils, through revelation, decided to abolish it.

You seem to have ignored the question, so I'll repeat it.

What Scripture states that?

 

[Dave L]

What I’ve been substantiating is that the gentiles are made fellow citizens through Christ and the assistance of the elect biological descendants of Abraham (Genesis 22:18). The prophets provide a progressive revelation of the fulfillment of Genesis 22:18 through Christ and the assistance of Ephraim/Israel.

But God removed the unbelievers and grafted in believing gentiles in their place. The unbelievers are not Israel, the grafted in gentiles believers are Israel along with the original Jewish followers of Christ.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

But God removed the unbelievers and grafted in believing gentiles in their place. The unbelievers are not Israel, the grafted in gentiles believers are Israel along with the original Jewish followers of Christ.

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.... For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:1-2, 29

 

[Jerryhuerta]

You seem to have ignored the question, so I'll repeat it.

What Scripture states that?

As I stated, Acts, specifically chapter 15, and Galatians documents that circumcision continued to inhibit bringing in the gentiles.

 

[Dave L]

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.... For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:1-2, 29

But all the promises are yes in Jesus only.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

But all the promises are yes in Jesus only.

Romans 11 is very clear, God has not cast away his people; only a remnant was the true Israel of God in the first place. The gifts and calling are without repentance. My work concerns that elect remnant.

 

[Dave L]

Romans 11 is very clear, God has not cast away his people; only a remnant was the true Israel of God in the first place. The gifts and calling are without repentance. My work concerns that elect remnant.

Paul used himself as an example. Over 3000 Jews converted to the New Covenant at Pentecost and over 5000 days later. These and billions more are Israel, not the broken off unbelievers.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

Paul used himself as an example. Over 3000 Jews converted to the New Covenant at Pentecost and over 5000 days later. These and billions more are Israel, not the broken off unbelievers.

You neglect,

Romans 11:
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

 

[Dave L]

You neglect,

Romans 11:
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

If the broken off unbelieving Jews are Israel, to whom are they reattached upon believing?

 

[jgr]

As I stated, Acts, specifically chapter 15, and Galatians documents that circumcision continued to inhibit bringing in the gentiles.

Quote the verses.