“...be in subjection to the governing authorities” Romans 13

[SkyWriting]

good luck with your new religion..

My source is a good one.

1 Peter 2:13-17
Titus 3,1
1 Timothy 2,1-3

Psalms 22:28
Daniel 2:20-21
Deuteronomy 16:18-20

1 Timothy 6:15-16
Proverbs 21:1
Romans 13:4

John 19:11
Mark 3:24
Proverbs 8:15

John 19:10-11
Daniel 2:21
2 Chronicles 7:14

Exodus 18:21
Romans 8:28
1 Corinthians 14:40

Deuteronomy 1:13
Romans 12:21
Romans 13:2
Romans 13:6-7

 

[Hawkins]

The big picture is that Christians don't belong to this world, with all the governing power inside it. We belong to the Kingdom of God. Just let the dead bury the dead.

No governing power stands without God's permission. More often a power stands simply because "the people are so". It's very much unusual for the godly people to have a bad government. Even when this situation exists it occupies only an extremely short period of time in history. More often, the behavior of the people in total will decide (maybe intangibly though) what government will stand. So just let secular people form their own secular governments. Christians are all for the Kingdom of God.

 

[timothyu]

So just let secular people form their own secular governments. Christians are all for the Kingdom of God.

Even the secular governments must bow to a higher secular god.

 

[Eloy Craft]

We are no longer judged by the written law, but instead are forgiven becasue of our intent and faith.

If God's law is written on the heart they no longer exist in ink ? Who's heart expresses the perfection of God's law? Those of us who's heart is mistaken now and then need an external expression of Truth on earth.

 

[FireDragon76]

Did God want Christians to turn in Jews to the Nazis obeying Hitler’s laws?

Based on my readings of Bonhoeffer, I think this misunderstands the issue altogether. It's not about what God wants (God wants a world without war, hatred, and violence, obviously), but what about you and I should do as human beings in response to the needs of our neighbor: actual people we encounter in all their particularity (persecuted Jews in this case). Certainly, hiding Jews in a Nazi regime would not make us innocents good guys, necessarily, according to Bonhoeffer's thought. But a Christian should first be a person for others, and that might be difficult to reconcile with conformity to a regime that is bent on genocide.

 

[SkyWriting]

If God's law is written on the heart they no longer exist in ink ? Who's heart expresses the perfection of God's law? Those of us who's heart is mistaken now and then need an external expression of Truth on earth.

Truth on earth is the Love of Jesus to die for our sins. That's the only truth there is. God showed us through the obsolete covenant, that God's written law is folly. That's was why it existed, to show us it doesn't work.
As you can see, these laws are both subject to the law in ones heart.

Mark 12:28-34
And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

So on this same topic, what is Sin?

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

Again, the subjective laws in ones heart.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Romans 12 provides the necessary context to understand Romans 13. Consider what the Apostle says in Romans 12, "Live peaceably with all as far as it is up to you." Christians are to be a people of peace, being a people of peace means we aren't a people of violence. It is as as peaceful people that we live quiet God-fearing lives in the vocations of life we find ourselves, in our communities, and as residents/citizens of where we are located.

Romans 13 is not about the governments of the world having divine sanction, remembering that when Paul wrote what he did the governing authority was a hostile one, one that was firmly at enmity against Christ, His Gospel, and His Church. But about recognizing good order in society (with just laws which curb evil and protect the people) and living in peace with our fellow human beings.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[SkyWriting]

Romans 12 provides the necessary context to understand Romans 13. Consider what the Apostle says in Romans 12, "Live peaceably with all as far as it is up to you." Christians are to be a people of peace, being a people of peace means we aren't a people of violence. It is as as peaceful people that we live quiet God-fearing lives in the vocations of life we find ourselves, in our communities, and as residents/citizens of where we are located.

Romans 13 is not about the governments of the world having divine sanction, remembering that when Paul wrote what he did the governing authority was a hostile one, one that was firmly at enmity against Christ, His Gospel, and His Church. But about recognizing good order in society (with just laws which curb evil and protect the people) and living in peace with our fellow human beings.

-CryptoLutheran

And being subject to local authority first to keep the peace.
Thank You.

Proverbs 20:2
Proverbs 20:8
Proverbs 20:26

 

[SkyWriting]

Here’s the Scripture on the matter:.....There are more examples I’m sure other posters will bring up. However, it is abundantly clear that when God’s Law is in tension with the wicked laws of mankind we are not to obey wickedness.

Nope. Wrong o' mungo

Jesus was crucified by local law. By your advice Jesus would never have died and you'd be responsible for bad advice, even today.

You'd be the evil that deferred Jesus from the Cross.

1 Peter 2:13
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, 14 or to governors as those sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right.

 

[timothyu]

It is not talking about obeying as a matter of allegiance, but rather when doing God's work for the Kingdom, it is of no purpose to rebel against worldly governance. As Jesus said, His Kingdom is not of the ways of this world so why fight this world like the zealots did. We are to focus our attention outside the system, not fight it.

 

[Tone]

God's written law is folly.

Ummm...you may want to rethink this.

So, do you believe that He will/did change His Law to conform to fallen hearts or will/did He change our fallen hearts to conform to His perfect Law?

 

[StrivingFollower]

There has never been a philosophy capable of making absolute statements all the time. Why do people think Christianity defies this reality? The world is too complex for the Bible to rely on absolute statements. We are supposed to honor the government to keep the peace and rebel if they've become extremely offensive to God and generally destructive. Scripture has plenty of stories of God-fearing people rebelling beautifully. The martyrs were highly aggressive rebels. Why give their lives just to pay respect to God? Because he's that important.

 

[redleghunter]

Nope. Wrong o' mungo

Jesus was crucified by local law. By your advice Jesus would never have died and you'd be responsible for bad advice, even today.

You'd be the evil that deferred Jesus from the Cross.

1 Peter 2:13
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, 14 or to governors as those sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right.

How are the two congruent?

 

[Eloy Craft]

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

Again, the subjective laws in ones heart.

Although sacred, the conscience can err. In my opinion the formation of errant conscience is widespread in western culture today. That conscience is enshrining that error in written law.


Your vision of government only works in a perfect world. A world that would not have to meet out justice.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

My source is a good one.

your exegesis of that source is the opposite..

 

[W2L]

What mankind's law allows is folly.

 

[SkyWriting]

your exegesis of that source is the opposite..

Then do fix my analysis. Take them one by one.
I'll wait.

Deuteronomy 1:13

What Does the Bible Say About Local Government's Authority?

 

[SkyWriting]

your exegesis of that source is the opposite..

Acts 5:29
But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.

.....said Peter referring to the High Priest and counsel of Bishops edicts.

 

[SkyWriting]

your exegesis of that source is the opposite..

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection (to local government), not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

 

[SkyWriting]

your exegesis of that source is the opposite..

1 Peter 2:13-17
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.