“...be in subjection to the governing authorities” Romans 13

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,499
Milwaukee
✟410,918.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Ummm...you may want to rethink this.

So, do you believe that He will/did change His Law to conform to fallen hearts or will/did He change our fallen hearts to conform to His perfect Law?

The words written in stone and ink lead to death.

Hebrews 8:7-8
For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

2 Corinthians 3:6
Who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Romans 7:6
But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

The Spirit in our hearts is perfect Love which overrides the written law.

Hebrews 12:24
And to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,499
Milwaukee
✟410,918.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
What mankind's law allows is folly.

Before this study, I said the same.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,499
Milwaukee
✟410,918.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Although sacred, the conscience can err. In my opinion the formation of errant conscience is widespread in western culture today. That conscience is enshrining that error in written law. Your vision of government only works in a perfect world. A world that would not have to meet out justice.

Sure. Is this passage below referring to
my vision of a perfect government?
Your vision of perfect authority?
The perfect rulers at the time this was written?

Titus 3:1
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

W2L

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2016
20,081
10,988
USA
✟213,573.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Before this study, I said the same.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.
You act like that's the only command the apostles gave
 
Upvote 0

Tone

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."
Supporter
Dec 24, 2018
15,128
6,906
California
✟61,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
The words written in stone and ink lead to death.

Hebrews 8:7-8
For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

2 Corinthians 3:6
Who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Romans 7:6
But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

The Spirit in our hearts is perfect Love which overrides the written law.

Hebrews 12:24
And to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.


"he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,"

The fault was with the Judah and Israel. Yes, The Word become Flesh is better than the written Word, but that doesn't mean that "God's written law is folly." Nothing He says is folly. When He created, He said some things were "good" and some things were "very good".

Genesis 1:21
"And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good."

Genesis 1:31
"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,499
Milwaukee
✟410,918.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
"he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,"

The fault was with the Judah and Israel. Yes, The Word become Flesh is better than the written Word, but that doesn't mean that "God's written word is folly." Nothing He says is folly. When He created, He said some things were "good" and some things were "very good".

Genesis 1:21
"And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good."

Genesis 1:31
"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

I didn't say God's word was folly.

I said God Laws as described in the first covenant are obsolete,
are replaced by a better promise,
and the written law leads to death instead of life.

As scripture says.
Certainly not folly. It served a purpose for a time.
 
Upvote 0

Tone

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."
Supporter
Dec 24, 2018
15,128
6,906
California
✟61,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
I didn't say God's word was folly.

I said God Laws as described in the first covenant are obsolete,
are replaced by a better promise,
and the written law leads to death instead of life.

As scripture says.
Certainly not folly. It served a purpose for a time.

I have since edited. You are correct, you didn't say "God's written word is folly", you said: "God's written law is folly.". His Word and His Law are one. Nothing He ever spoke or did is folly. One was good, one was very good. As one of my favorite teachers says, "Water is good, but fish and other sea creatures in the water (life) is very good" (paraphrase).

When the water is "fulfilled" with fish, that doesn't mean that we get to throw the water out now...get it?

By the way, I am very sorry for your loss and am praying for you. Yahuah bless you and your family.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,499
Milwaukee
✟410,918.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I have since edited. You are correct, you didn't say "God's written word is folly", you said: "God's written law is folly.". His Word and His Law are one. Nothing He ever spoke or did is folly. One was good, one was very good. As one of my favorite teachers says, "Water is good, but fish and other sea creatures in the water (life) is very good" (paraphrase).

When the water is "fulfilled" with fish, that doesn't mean that we get to throw the water out now...get it?

By the way, I am very sorry for your loss and am praying for you. Yahuah bless you and your family.

You are absolutely right. I used the wrong word.
And most of God's word is not obsolete and less valuable.
Just the written laws in ink and stone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tone
Upvote 0

W2L

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2016
20,081
10,988
USA
✟213,573.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
What do you folks think is more authoritative, the U.S. Constitution (for U.S. citizens) or the Torah? Just curious.
I know the apostles commands are what we are suppose to follow, but someone here doesnt agree with those written commands. But they love mans written laws. Very unwise and umbilical.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,499
Milwaukee
✟410,918.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I know the apostles commands are what we are suppose to follow, but someone here doesnt agree with those written commands. But they love mans written laws. Very unwise and umbilical.

"Unwise" is a useless term.

Romans 13
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,499
Milwaukee
✟410,918.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I know the apostles commands are what we are suppose to follow, but someone here doesn't agree with those written commands. But they love mans written laws. Very unwise and umbilical.

1 Peter 2
13 Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,499
Milwaukee
✟410,918.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I know the apostles commands are what we are suppose to follow, but someone here doesnt agree with those written commands. But they love mans written laws. Very unwise and umbilical.

Titus 3:1 Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,499
Milwaukee
✟410,918.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I know the apostles commands are what we are suppose to follow, but someone here doesnt agree with those written commands. But they love mans written laws. Very unwise and umbilical.


1 Peter 2:13-14
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good.
 
Upvote 0

Ignatius the Kiwi

Dissident
Mar 2, 2013
7,029
3,750
✟287,917.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
1 Peter 2
13 Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God.

Why are you still trolling this nonsense?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,499
Milwaukee
✟410,918.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
What do you folks think is more authoritative, the U.S. Constitution (for U.S. citizens) or the Torah? Just curious.

Psalms 22
28 For kingship belongs to the Lord, and he rules over the nations.

John 19
11 Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above. Therefore he who delivered me over to you has the greater sin.”

Proverbs 21
The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord; he turns it wherever he will.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tone
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,499
Milwaukee
✟410,918.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You act like that's the only command the apostles gave

Psalm 22:28
For kingship belongs to the Lord, and he rules over the nations.

Proverbs 21
The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord; he turns it wherever he will.

Daniel 2
20 Daniel answered and said: “Blessed be the name of God forever and ever, to whom belong wisdom and might. He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding;

Deuteronomy 16
18 “You shall appoint judges and officers in all your towns that the Lord your God is giving you, according to your tribes, and they shall judge the people with righteous judgment. You shall not pervert justice. You shall not show partiality, and you shall not accept a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and subverts the cause of the righteous. Justice, and only justice, you shall follow, that you may live and inherit the land that the Lord your God is giving you.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,499
Milwaukee
✟410,918.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Why are you still trolling this nonsense?

It's scripture and I like scripture, compared to im-posters.
I get a kick out of people rejecting scripture.
It reveals their true nature to the world in a somewhat permanent record.
 
Upvote 0

Ignatius the Kiwi

Dissident
Mar 2, 2013
7,029
3,750
✟287,917.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
It's scripture and I like scripture, compared to im-posters.
I get a kick out of people rejecting scripture.
It reveals their true nature to the world in a somewhat permanent record.
You get a kick out of misinterpreting scripture. Though what more could be expected of you?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,499
Milwaukee
✟410,918.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You get a kick out of misinterpreting scripture. Though what more could be expected of you?

When was this?

Proverbs 8
15 By me kings reign, and rulers decree what is just;

Romans 13
2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
 
Upvote 0