Who worships the same God?

[DamianWarS]

Basically, whoever worships Christ worships God in truth. Whoever don’t believe in Christ rejects God. Islam and Judaism both explicitly deny Christ as God and can therefore not be correctly be said to worship the same God as Christians.

Since there is only one God and if they don't worship him then who or what do they worship?

 

[DamianWarS]

Jesus is the only way to the Father. This means that nobody can come to him and know except through Jesus, by walking in the footsteps of Jesus meaning walking as he walked. Many Christians do indeed belong to the Father but do not worship him in Spirit and in Truth. They try to worship him through their various views and religious preferences but the bottom line is, nobody can see or know the Father unless they are walking as Christ walked. That is when the Father is revealed.

they may not be able to come to him but can they point to him?

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

Or, shall we say, "at least in theory."

There is no way that it can be the same God--from the Christian perspective--if some other religion cuts Christ out from its concept of God.

I stand by what I said - in terms of political theology. An excellent work on this is Miroslav Volf's "Allah: A Christian Response."

 

[DamianWarS]

What do you mean by worship?

worship is adoration and reverence reserved only for the divine. As a non-Christian example, Muslims will pray 5 times a day using specific postures such as bowing low to the ground, they do this toward Mecca where the Ka'aba is. The Ka'aba then directs the prayers to heaven. Prayer perhaps maybe be the wrong word too as it's not petitions, it is worship to God. We may see this as unnecessary and incomplete for salvation but is it directed to God or is it directed to something that doesn't exist?

 

[DamianWarS]

I stand by what I said - in terms of political theology. An excellent work on this is Miroslav Volf's "Allah: A Christian Response."

Volf probably is the leading advocate for this calling the Quranic Allah and the Biblical Yahweh as sufficiently similar to be referred to as the same. But his views don't stand unchallenged for example Nabeel Qureshi was probably the most prominent. Qureshi was a Muslim born believer (unfortunately he has passed away last year from cancer at the young age of 34) but there are excellent debates with him and Volf all over youtube for precisely this subject. Both are Christians and highly respect each which is a refreshing focus with a debate.

 

[Daniel9v9]

Since there is only one God and if they don't worship him then who or what do they worship?

An idea of God. If they don’t know the Son they don’t know the Father.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

An idea of God. If they don’t know the Son they don’t know the Father.

Is it that, or is it that they have a less-full knowledge of the Father.

 

[DamianWarS]

An idea of God. If they don’t know the Son they don’t know the Father.

Meaning they worship an errant view of God. Does this not still qualify as the same referent?

On another note, do we not worship an idea of God too, that which as been revealed to us? Is God the sum of all our revelation or is there more? Is the idea then complete? Was it complete for the Jews in the OT? Perhaps complete for salvation in this time and restored relationship but do we not only see through a glass darkly?

 

[AllDayFaith]

Hence, I have to argue the "more narrow" vote, because not all who claim to be the Lord's are really his.

You are right cause Jesus says, the only way to the Lord is through Him.

 

[Daniel9v9]

Is it that, or is it that they have a less-full knowledge of the Father.

It’s important to appreciate that what we know as rabbinical Judaism in our day has its roots in pharisaic thought, which denies Christ and furthermore Christ condemned. We can find this in the NT and in the early Church (cf. Didache) - Christianity and Judaism are competing ideas. The notion that rabbinical Judaism is first and Christianity is second or a development out of that is inaccurate, for they both begun at the end of the Levitical priesthood and sacrificial system; the priesthood ceased and rabbinical scholars gradually took their place, which was a radical shift in their religion. This coincided with the death of the Apostles and the formation of the Church. The two religions came into being more or less simultaneously and make fundamentally different claims - and Islam is a step further removed. Even if these other religions possess some of God’s Word, it does not follow by necessity that they believe it in truth; even if they know *of* God it does not automatically mean they *know* God. Only those in the body of Christ can worship in Spirit and truth - only through Christ can we worship God. Even though the OT saints (Abraham, Moses, Elijah etc) did not know the person of Jesus Christ as revealed in the NT, we know from the NT they looked forward and testified about him, which Judaism and Islam reject. In a word, any religion that rejects the Son rejects the Father; anyone who Christ rejects God, for Christ is God.

 

[Daniel9v9]

Meaning they worship an errant view of God. Does this not still qualify as the same referent?

On another note, do we not worship an idea of God too, that which as been revealed to us? Is God the sum of all our revelation or is there more? Is the idea then complete? Was it complete for the Jews in the OT? Perhaps complete for salvation in this time and restored relationship but do we not only see through a glass darkly?

That’s not how the NT or the early Church sees it, for they definitely view rabbinical Judaism as contrary to Christianity, and Islam moreso.

We can only worship God in Spirit and truth - through Christ. Islam and Judaism both deny and reject this.

 

[DamianWarS]

That’s not how the NT or the early Church sees it, for they definitely view rabbinical Judaism as contrary to Christianity, and Islam moreso.

We can only worship God in Spirit and truth - through Christ. Islam and Judaism both deny and reject this.

I'm not asking if x worship or x teaching is correct but if the referent of the worship is the same.

 

[Daniel9v9]

I'm not asking if x worship or x teaching is correct but if the referent of the worship is the same.

But it doesn’t work like that in NT thinking, which is why I tried to give a fuller answer. A simpler version would be: they can’t worship God without the Holy Spirit, but they can be religious and worship in accordance with their own religion - but the object of worship is not God - not in a true sense - for you can’t actively deny and oppose the worship of Christ and positively worship the Father at the same time.

 

[Calvin_1985]

they may not be able to come to him but can they point to him?

All can come to Christ for Salvation. He is drawing all men everywhere and Father is not willing that any perish but all come to repentance. If the Church would be a shining light and walk in His footsteps, more would come.

 

[Albion]

I stand by what I said - in terms of political theology. An excellent work on this is Miroslav Volf's "Allah: A Christian Response."

Well, the various religions quite obviously cannot believe in the same God (that was the question of this thread) if those gods have different identities and/or natures. Much about them can be similar, but thats all.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

There are many sects of Christianity, some at opposite ends and call each other heretical. Do all worship the same God or do some worship a false god? Can we say all Nicene Christians worship the same God? Can we say all Christians worship the same God? Who gets to decide?

Does this work outside of Christianity? Do Jews, for example, worship the same God as Christian do, despite their errant views of God? If not, surely at one time they did, so, at what time did this change?

How about Muslims? do they worship the same God despite their errant views of God and that Islam is insufficient for salvation?

This, of course, can go further. All religions will have a creator deity and so when someone says I worship the creator this could be many different answers in different religions and although their understanding may be errant and insufficient for salvation is it the same referent?

At which point is an understanding of God so different that it can no longer be said to be the same referent as the God of Christianity? To be clear I'm not advocating pluralism as salvation remains through Christ alone. What I am talking about is if worship from other religions can be said to be directed to the same referent of the Christian worship to God even if salvation is incompatible with it?

Jesus Christ of Nazareth said: "If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
You can deduce from here.

 

[Archivist]

To the extent that Jews, Muslims and Christians all worship the God of Abraham then yes, they do worship the same god.

 

[Albion]

To the extent that Jews, Muslims and Christians all worship the God of Abraham then yes, they do worship the same god.

Except that they all have different ideas of who the God of Abraham is!

Therefore, they" worship the same God" only in name…or in theory. But not in fact, which I believe is the question of the thread.

 

[Archivist]

Except that they all have different ideas of who the God of Abraham is!

Therefore, they" worship the same God" only in name…or in theory. But not in fact, which I believe is the question of the thread.

Agreed. Please tell-read my post. I said that Jews, Muslims and Christians worship the same God “to the extent” that we all worship the God of Abraham. The OP only asked if we worship the same God, and I limited my answer to that question. We do. The OP didn’t ask if we have the same understanding of God. We don’t.

 

[Albion]

Agreed. Please tell-read my post. I said that Jews, Muslims and Christians worship the same God “to the extent” that we all worship the God of Abraham. The OP only asked if we worship the same God, and I limited my answer to that question. We do. The OP didn’t ask if we have the same understanding of God. We don’t.

We don't worship the same God; I hope that is clear enough.

That is the question. Perhaps the problem is that "same God" became the focus of attention to the exclusion of "worship."

If your contention is that all prayers that are directed to any supernatural being or force are de facto prayers to whichever entity is the real one (which I would reject as a concept), it still cannot be said that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God.