Who worships the same God?

who worships the same God?

  • more narrow

    Votes: 7 20.6%
  • Nicene Christians worship the same God

    Votes: 11 32.4%
  • all Christians worship the same God

    Votes: 4 11.8%
  • Jews and Christians worship the same God

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • Jews, Muslims and Christians worship the same God

    Votes: 2 5.9%
  • all Abrahamic religions worship the same God

    Votes: 3 8.8%
  • all monotheistic religions worship the same God

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • All religions ultimately ascribe worship to the same referent of God

    Votes: 3 8.8%
  • more broad

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 2 5.9%

  • Total voters
    34

Archivist

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Sikhism is not Abrahamic, but it's somewhat a product of Muslims. essentially Sikhs are fighting Hindus when Muslims came and started to kill Hindus. Other Abrahamic religions that I can think of are the Samaritans (Samaritanism?) Baha'i and Rastafarianism. I'm sure there's more.
Yes, I am fully aware that Sikhism is not Abrahamic. The question I was answering was "Are there some monotheistic or abrahamic religions that are not Jews, Muslims or Christians?"
 
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Hawkins

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The question itself is moot. It's like asking whether the different groups of humans believe the same E.T. aliens.

God to humans is as a result of human witnessing/testimonies. You thus need to examine into the validity of those testimonies to tell who God is in the different religions.

The OP question is moot basically due to the lack of understanding of what human witnessing and testimonies are.
 
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DamianWarS

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Yes, we worship through Christ, but we also worship the person of Jesus Christ and that's precisely the point. We worship God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit - one God. You can't, on one hand, reject Christ and not worship Christ and at the same time worship the Father, for it is one God. The referent is Christ as much as it is the Father and the Holy Spirit.

A very simple illustration:
Christians worship Christ - God.
People of other religions do not worship Christ and therefore they do not worship God. The objects of their worship are various forms of idols.
you're starting to sound like a unitarian. a worshiper does not need to understand the referent in it's entirety to direct worship toward it, the unknown god in Acts 17 shows us that. Muslim's reject the sonship mainly because they can't get passed the physical relations of God and Mary having a biological son together and as such they think we worship 3 gods, God, Mary and Jesus... well I reject that too, so their rejection is based on one giant strawman that God can't have children but because it says this in the Quran this argument is continually repeated. What this perpetuates is ignorance not understanding but it doesn't mean their referent is wrong.
 
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DamianWarS

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The question itself is moot. It's like asking whether the different groups of humans believe the same E.T. aliens.

God to humans is as a result of human witnessing/testimonies. You thus need to examine into the validity of those testimonies to tell who God is in the different religions.

The OP question is moot basically due to the lack of understanding of what human witnessing and testimonies are.

your alien argument is a strawmen so if we are talking about moot subjects start with that. The OP has various questions designed to stimulate the conversion which allows for various agreements/disagreements. Your point about examining foundational accounts/influences perhaps is valid but you fail to demonstrate it. do you care to give an example or are you happy with your little green strawman?
 
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Daniel9v9

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you're starting to sound like a unitarian. a worshiper does not need to understand the referent in it's entirety to direct worship toward it, the unknown god in Acts 17 shows us that. Muslim's reject the sonship mainly because they can't get passed the physical relations of God and Mary having a biological son together and as such they think we worship 3 gods, God, Mary and Jesus... well I reject that too, so their rejection is based on one giant strawman that God can't have children but because it says this in the Quran this argument is continually repeated. What this perpetuates is ignorance not understanding but it doesn't mean their referent is wrong.

First: To say that we worship the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit; three persons; one God - is absolutely not Unitarian, but the orthodox Christian faith.

Second: It is correct to say that Christ is God. (Just as we can say God the Father and God the Holy Spirit) He is fully God and fully man. The fullness of the Godhead dwells in him bodily; he is very God in flesh.

This is elementary Christian doctrine and clearly reflected our Creeds.

To say that someone who doesn’t know about the Son can worship the Father is one thing and worthy of a discussion of its own. But to say that someone can reject Christ and still worship the Father is both theologically and logically problematic. To say “I will not worship Christ” and at the same time “I will worship God” is inconsistent. It’s the same as saying “I will not worship God for I worship God”. Islam and Judaism absolutely cannot claim ignorance on this point, for they explicitly deny Christ, and in doing so calling God a liar. To deny the Son is not the same as insufficient knowledge, but most certainly denial and rejection of God, as sure as Christ is God.

If you reject the Son, you reject the Father, and the object of worship cannot be the object rejected. There is no evidence from Scriptures that those who reject Christ still worship God, but rather the contrary is explicitly stated, for Scripture only knows of rejection of Christ as idolatry.
 
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Albion

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your argument presupposes not the same God.
That's right. We all speak of false Gods and the Bible refers to false Gods, so if there are none...this is all a matter of semantics and the people taking exception to what I have written here are correct. Just apply the name of the real God to whoever and whatever is worshipped and all is okay. (?)

What if allegiance is given to a construct that is agreeable as God?

So....if the person in question has forgotten the name or identify of Christ but does explain to you that he worships and gives his allegiance to the person whose life and doings are the subject of the Gospels AND also gets correct the triune nature of God...

Then I suppose I would agree with you.

Do you know anyone who falls into that category?
 
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Ttalkkugjil

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Well, the various religions quite obviously cannot believe in the same God (that was the question of this thread) if those gods have different identities and/or natures. Much about them can be similar, but thats all.

Or perhaps each religion as a somewhat-true view of the same divine being.
 
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DamianWarS

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First: To say that we worship the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit; three persons; one God - is absolutely not Unitarian, but the orthodox Christian faith.

Second: It is correct to say that Christ is God. (Just as we can say God the Father and God the Holy Spirit) He is fully God and fully man. The fullness of the Godhead dwells in him bodily; he is very God in flesh.

This is elementary Christian doctrine and clearly reflected our Creeds.

To say that someone who doesn’t know about the Son can worship the Father is one thing and worthy of a discussion of its own. But to say that someone can reject Christ and still worship the Father is both theologically and logically problematic. To say “I will not worship Christ” and at the same time “I will worship God” is inconsistent. It’s the same as saying “I will not worship God for I worship God”. Islam and Judaism absolutely cannot claim ignorance on this point, for they explicitly deny Christ, and in doing so calling God a liar. To deny the Son is not the same as insufficient knowledge, but most certainly denial and rejection of God, as sure as Christ is God.

If you reject the Son, you reject the Father, and the object of worship cannot be the object rejected. There is no evidence from Scriptures that those who reject Christ still worship God, but rather the contrary is explicitly stated, for Scripture only knows of rejection of Christ as idolatry.

Using Muslims as an example they reject a strawman argument about Christ and when they hear Christ they see the strawman, "There is no other God but God", "God cannot have children", "God does not have sex" etc...; but what they reject is something we also reject. The Quran is vehemently anti-tritheistic and monotheistic it is also aggressively Unitarian, but intentionally seems to avoid anti-trinitarian language. They reject a false construct of Christ but in terms of the true Christ, they do know him.

It's like in a political campaign there is a lot of misinformation and propaganda, one may reject a candidate based on this misinformation but what are they really rejecting? the candidate or the misinformation? Perhaps the same person meets the candidate who is able to inform them of the truth, now that they know the truth they may continue to reject or not but the rejection now has more weight.

Of these religions that can be argued as the same referent of the true God do they know Christ? Do they even know God? What did Paul say in Acts 17 "what therefore you worship as unknown..." They may reject a heretical version of Christ but is this really rejecting Christ himself? How can they reject something they do not understand or know? I'm speaking more broadly and there are those who have been introduced to the true Christ yet still reject him, this, of course, is more conclusive but as a whole many other faiths reject misinformation about Christianity, or perhaps reject culture or offences but often don't have the opportunity to reject the true Christ.
 
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Daniel9v9

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Using Muslims as an example they reject a strawman argument about Christ and when they hear Christ they see the strawman, "There is no other God but God", "God cannot have children", "God does not have sex" etc...; but what they reject is something we also reject. The Quran is vehemently anti-tritheistic and monotheistic it is also aggressively Unitarian, but intentionally seems to avoid anti-trinitarian language. They reject a false construct of Christ but in terms of the true Christ, they do know him.

It's like in a political campaign there is a lot of misinformation and propaganda, one may reject a candidate based on this misinformation but what are they really rejecting? the candidate or the misinformation? Perhaps the same person meets the candidate who is able to inform them of the truth, now that they know the truth they may continue to reject or not but the rejection now has more weight.

Of these religions that can be argued as the same referent of the true God do they know Christ? Do they even know God? What did Paul say in Acts 17 "what therefore you worship as unknown..." They may reject a heretical version of Christ but is this really rejecting Christ himself? How can they reject something they do not understand or know? I'm speaking more broadly and there are those who have been introduced to the true Christ yet still reject him, this, of course, is more conclusive but as a whole many other faiths reject misinformation about Christianity, or perhaps reject culture or offences but often don't have the opportunity to reject the true Christ.

Islam is neither a case of failing to understand Christ, nor do they know him. That would be a gross misrepresentation, for they make different claims regarding the person of Jesus Christ that are counter to the apostolic accounts. That is, it's not only a misinterpretation of Christ, but false teaching concerning Christ, which is an important point of difference. Basically, Islam teaches a fundamentally different doctrine from the Gospel, and in doing so, most certainly reject Christ, the author of the Gospel. Furthermore, a person is not required to fully understand that he rejects God in order to rebel and sin against God; we can and indeed do sin against God unknowingly on many points, for we are by nature spiritually dead and children of wrath, only saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Let me ask you - is it your belief that there are many roads to God? Are there other religions that lead to salvation outside of faith in Christ? If yes, how? Or do you hold that all are eventually saved in a universalist manner? But if you agree that salvation is only found in Christ, then why do you suppose that it is possible to worship God outside of Christ, even if we reject Christ, who is truly God?
 
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Albion

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What you said was this:

Or perhaps each religion as a somewhat-true view of the same divine being.

Did you instead mean to exclude Christianity from the list of religions of the world? If not, then what you wrote says that it, like all the others, has a "somewhat true" view of the divine being.

I am saying that Christianity has the true view of the nature and identity of God and that no other of the worlds religions shares that belief, even though Judaism and Islam are undeniably related to Christianity in one way or another.
 
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worshipjunkie

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Of these religions that can be argued as the same referent of the true God do they know Christ? Do they even know God? What did Paul say in Acts 17 "what therefore you worship as unknown..." They may reject a heretical version of Christ but is this really rejecting Christ himself? How can they reject something they do not understand or know? I'm speaking more broadly and there are those who have been introduced to the true Christ yet still reject him, this, of course, is more conclusive but as a whole many other faiths reject misinformation about Christianity, or perhaps reject culture or offences but often don't have the opportunity to reject the true Christ.

"For all the gods of the peoples are worthless idols, but the LORD made the heavens. (Psalm 96:5)"

"No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be participants with demons. (1 Corinthians 10:20)

These two Scriptures state that the demons, not God, are the ones that receive false worship.

I think the reason you're having such a hard time getting an answer to your question is because the answer is you cannot divide what is necessary for salvation from who receives worship. It makes no sense that God would accept false worship as actually intending to be directed towards Him and then say it didn't count for salvation. You asked in your original post "At which point is an understanding of God so different that it can no longer be said to be the same referent as the God of Christianity?" and I think the answer you're getting is "When it's not Trinitarian." That would certainly be my answer, based on the Scriptures. Those who believe that Jews, Muslims and Christians worship the same God seem to think you can somehow separate God the Father as He was understood pre-New Testament out from God as the Blessed Trinity and yet somehow maintain His integrity (integrity in the sense of wholeness) as God. Once the full revelation has come, you cannot go back to the partial revelation.
 
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DamianWarS

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It makes no sense that God would accept false worship
who said anything about God accepting the worship? I am talking about if the worship is directed at the same referent as God, I am not talking about if God accepts the worship and of course he doesn't because it is not sanctified through Christ.
 
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Hawkins

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your alien argument is a strawmen so if we are talking about moot subjects start with that. The OP has various questions designed to stimulate the conversion which allows for various agreements/disagreements. Your point about examining foundational accounts/influences perhaps is valid but you fail to demonstrate it. do you care to give an example or are you happy with your little green strawman?

The alien example is exactly where your question is moot. Different group of people may have different views about aliens and how they look like. It's meaningless to ask whether they believe the same aliens.

As for Christianity, the whole Bible contains human testimonies about who God is. It's a moot and strawman question to ask whether they worship the same God, as everyone without exception is getting information from the same Bible. All kinds of every view of a Christian in norm is getting information from the same Bible to form his opinion. They can still deviate in opinion about who God is though.

Similarly, all muslin got their god information from the same Qu'ran. What's the point of asking them whether they believe the same god. It's as moot as asking a Christian in New York whether he believes the same God as another living in Washington. They all get the same info from the same Bible, they can still deviate in opinion on who God is. Regardless, it's pointless to ask the question whether they both believe in the same God, as the question itself is a strawman from the very beginning.
 
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DamianWarS

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The alien example is exactly where your question is moot. Different group of people may have different views about aliens and how they look like. It's meaningless to ask whether they believe the same aliens.

As for Christianity, the whole Bible contains human testimonies about who God is. It's a moot and strawman question to ask whether they worship the same God, as everyone without exception is getting information from the same Bible. All kinds of every view of a Christian in norm is getting information from the same Bible to form his opinion. They can still deviate in opinion about who God is though.

Similarly, all muslin got their god information from the same Qu'ran. What's the point of asking them whether they believe the same god. It's as moot as asking a Christian in New York whether he believes the same God as another living in Washington. They all get the same info from the same Bible, they can still deviate in opinion on who God is. Regardless, it's pointless to ask the question whether they both believe in the same God, as the question itself is a strawman from the very beginning.

A strawman is an irrelevant argument that can't be supported and often tries to disguise itself as something relevant. The matter if Jews and Muslims worship the same God as Christianity is a real topic with real relevancy and many books/debates from all sides. The matter if all who believe in aliens believe in the same ones is meaningless and has no bearing on this topic by way of logic or direct comparisons.

As Christians we don't value alien life but we do value God. There is only 1 God so naturally if another from a different faith also says there is only 1 God then immediately a question emerges if Faith 1 and Faith 2 are worshipping the same God. This is a relevant question, how that is determine is its own conversation.

What about aliens? Is there only 1 alien or 1 alien race? Are there more who also believe in a single source of alien life so that it would be appropriate to ask if they are the same when comparing accounts? Do they both say the aliens are green and are from Mars? What if one group says they believe in the same aliens from the other group? could it then be said they are talking about the same aliens? What if aliens don't exist and they all made it up then can they still be talking about the same aliens? Your aliens argument is irrelevant and does not inform us how we should approach the topic of God in an interfaith collective and it might as well have said are all people who believe in the Easter bunny talking about the same bunny?

Christianity originated from Judaism and Christians use the same scripture as the Jews so it is reasonable to ask if they worship the same God. The Quran explicitly says it worships the God of Abraham, the God of the Jews and the God of Christianity. It's prophets are built up of all the notable characters in the bible with the exception of Muhammad. The Quran's framework is developed from judeo-christian accounts, including adopting byproducts such as various heresies and it does this under an Arabic mindset. So it is completely reasonably to ask if the Quran's Allah is the same as the Christian's God.

You can go to alienforums.com and ask your alien question there
 
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Justified112

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There are many sects of Christianity, some at opposite ends and call each other heretical. Do all worship the same God or do some worship a false god? Can we say all Nicene Christians worship the same God? Can we say all Christians worship the same God? Who gets to decide?

Does this work outside of Christianity? Do Jews, for example, worship the same God as Christian do, despite their errant views of God? If not, surely at one time they did, so, at what time did this change?

How about Muslims? do they worship the same God despite their errant views of God and that Islam is insufficient for salvation?

This, of course, can go further. All religions will have a creator deity and so when someone says I worship the creator this could be many different answers in different religions and although their understanding may be errant and insufficient for salvation is it the same referent?

At which point is an understanding of God so different that it can no longer be said to be the same referent as the God of Christianity? To be clear I'm not advocating pluralism as salvation remains through Christ alone. What I am talking about is if worship from other religions can be said to be directed to the same referent of the Christian worship to God even if salvation is incompatible with it?
First of all, not all religions have a creator deity. Buddhism, for example has no deity and it is not about worshiping a deity. It is about becoming nothing.

And Muslims worship Allah, not YHVH. They are two totally different entities. Liberals have sung many to sleep about Muslims and Christians worshipping the same deity but that is not true. Not even Muslims believe that. In Muslim countries, converting to Christianity is a death sentence. If they were worshiping the same God then why is it a crime to convert to Christianity in a Muslim country?
 
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DamianWarS

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First of all, not all religions have a creator deity. Buddhism, for example has no deity and it is not about worshiping a deity. It is about becoming nothing.

And Muslims worship Allah, not YHVH. They are two totally different entities. Liberals have sung many to sleep about Muslims and Christians worshipping the same deity but that is not true. Not even Muslims believe that. In Muslim countries, converting to Christianity is a death sentence. If they were worshiping the same God then why is it a crime to convert to Christianity in a Muslim country?

Muslims, in fact, do believe Allah and the Christian/Jewish God are the same as it says this in the Quran they just don't believe the Christian/Jewish systems are the right ways.

Etymologically speaking Allah is just a translation of the word Eloah which is the singular form of Elohim and can be shorted to just El, all of which have been used for pagan gods within semantic cultures and all used in the bible to refer to God. A closer version is Elahh, still a biblical name of God just in Aramaic as used in Daniel/Ezra. Plus Arabic speaking Christians use Allah for God as well as other Christians in cultures influenced by Arabic like Christians in Indonesia, even though they don't even speak Arabic.

proper names for God is a bit of a silly argument. God is limitless in all ways and is not bound by an abstract name. Yahweh (YHWH) is the third person version of "I AM" meaning literally "he is" and this is what Moses was to reply to the Israelites when asked, "What is his name?". "Name" in Hebrew has a meaning of character and nature as much as it does a personal identity so grammatically Moses would not say "I AM" has sent me which would be confusing, but rather "HE IS" has sent me. This isn't a name at all but rather a statement to claim existence implicitly before all things, this is God's character and identify he is revealing not some arbitrary sounds that form a word. I pray to Allah all the time.
 
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