What commandments is Jesus talking about?

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I think reading is great! It stimulates the mind, well most minds. I do puzzles. It causes me to focus on details.

I could be tarred and feathered for saying this, but those who reject the teaching of successful godly ministries in favour of their own interpretation of the Bible, are being somewhat exclusive, and can disadvantage themselves by missing out on many valuable nuggets of gold that these godly ministries can contribute to the strentghening of our faith in Christ.

 

[ace of hearts]

I don't label people like that. The men I referred to are recognised soul-winners who, in their ministry, won thousands to Christ.

"And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others" (2 Timothy 2:2).

This shows that Paul gave teaching to Timothy with the instruction to take that teaching and entrust it to faithful and reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others. I believe that the men I have referred to have heard from the Holy Spirit and through their experience and successful ministry, and being men of prayer and faith, are admirably qualified to teach others. Therefore I don't have to "reinvent the wheel" through trying to learn afresh what others have already learned from the Holy Spirit and who are equipped by God to pass on what they have learned to others.

It's great to win souls to Jesus. I also think it's great to make disciples of Jesus. IOW I think Jesus said make disciples.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” NASB

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

which of the 10 commandments can be broken consistently while still loving God and neighbor?

 

[ace of hearts]

Well, if you don't see the family connection between Father and Son, here's a passage that may help:

"Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” 9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?"

Who's Law?

Sorry about that. You can disbelieve the expression of the trinity if you like. When it comes to the subject and verse of this thread, you're doing your best to say God the Father is also God the Son.

 

[ace of hearts]

"What commandments is Jesus talking about?"

John 12:49-50
"For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that His commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak."

Still doesn't link Jesus as the giver of the law.

 

[ace of hearts]

What commandments do you obey?

LK 6:31

Jn 13:34

 

[ace of hearts]

I could be tarred and feathered for saying this, but those who reject the teaching of successful godly ministries in favour of their own interpretation of the Bible, are being somewhat exclusive, and can disadvantage themselves by missing out on many valuable nuggets of gold that these godly ministries can contribute to the strentghening of our faith in Christ.

One must be careful and examine what even godly men say. I've read many. You just don't hear me giving them credit for their influence on my life. That kind of discussion only causes trouble for me in most all places of conversations. So I just don't do it any more.

 

[ace of hearts]

which of the 10 commandments can be broken consistently while still loving God and neighbor?

Specifically the 4th because it has no relationship between people.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Specifically the 4th because it has no relationship between people.

you can take the LORD's name in vein as well?

 

[ace of hearts]

you can take the LORD's name in vein as well?

Doesn't relate to your first post.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

which of the 10 commandments can be broken consistently while still loving God and neighbor?

Doesn't relate to your first post.

sure does...

 

[Tone]

Sorry about that. You can disbelieve the expression of the trinity if you like. When it comes to the subject and verse of this thread, you're doing your best to say God the Father is also God the Son.

It speaks for itself.

 

[Tone]

Still doesn't link Jesus as the giver of the law.

LK 6:31

Jn 13:34

So what do you think those two verses are?

teaching them to observe all that I commanded you

And why did you quote the above verse if you don't believe He is the law giver?

 

[1stcenturylady]

I don't label people like that. The men I referred to are recognised soul-winners who, in their ministry, won thousands to Christ.

"And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others" (2 Timothy 2:2).

This shows that Paul gave teaching to Timothy with the instruction to take that teaching and entrust it to faithful and reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others. I believe that the men I have referred to have heard from the Holy Spirit and through their experience and successful ministry, and being men of prayer and faith, are admirably qualified to teach others. Therefore I don't have to "reinvent the wheel" through trying to learn afresh what others have already learned from the Holy Spirit and who are equipped by God to pass on what they have learned to others.

I do want you to learn from people that hear from the Holy Spirit which you have in Finney. I just want it to be pure, and not tainted with any Sardis teachings that Jesus called dead. They are popular for liberal reasons.

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Who is the we in verse 6 and 7? For me they're both the same group. Isn't John including himself with that word?

The problem was the Gnostics were inside the church trying to win people to their side, so the we is his mixed congregation. But you will see they soon leave.

1 John 2:
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

What does "walking in" mean to you? Have you ever heard the expression - if you talk the walk, walk the talk? To me walk in means actually actively practicing/doing what one does - a way of life. So I think the word "practice" in the quote implies what I said. The evidence in some early churches indicates Christians were actually practicing sin. You did mention Gnosticism. See Corinthians for example if you need something real clear.

Walking is being super-sensitized to the voice of the Spirit that he speaks through your tender conscience. You can be presented with a temptation and immediately walk away from it, never indulging. As far as the Corinthians, they had all the gifts of the Spirit in their church; however they did not know how to handle willful sinners, so they just let them stay in the congregation raising havoc. Paul told them to excommunicate them, even giving them over to Satan so they would come to their senses and see that they were not walking the walk. Then in 2 Cor. Paul tells them to bring them back once they had repented.

Isn't the we still the same group as the other verses? Does John say we have no sin? You've talked about Rom 7 about Paul trying to say he had no war or problem with sin. I just can't buy that. Yes I understand your discussion about Semitic writing styles.

What does it mean to you that we are not under the law but under grace? Romans 6 says we are dead to the sin so how can this struggle go on in someone who is already dead to sin. The answer is those who struggle are not dead to sin yet, and do not have the Spirit which is fully in chapter 8, though it begins in this chapter. Paul's audience are those who know the law and are walking in the law, not the Spirit.

Read the verses Romans 7-
1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Sin’s Advantage in the Law
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Law Cannot Save from Sin
13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

The rest of the chapter shows the struggle to keep the law without the Spirit. Who can save them from the law and the sin it shows them? JESUS.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Ah the problems of religion. I disagree about who you claim never repented. Haven't you read about Demas, who Paul once loved turning his back on the Gospel.

Was Demas a Gnostic as in 1 John 1? I don't know the story.

To me verse 6 means practices sin. That would be in line with 1:6-7 which say "walk in" (KJV).

What is the difference between commit and practice to you. Shall I say "I don't practice fornication, so committing it tonight won't matter?"

Yes a person that walks in (practices) darkness (sin) is a child of the devil. 1:9 isn't talking about as habitual life style.

1 John 1:9 is how to become a Christian. It would be the same as Acts 2:38-39.

 

[ace of hearts]

sure does...

You did say while loving God, didn't you?

 

[ace of hearts]

So what do you think those two verses are?



And why did you quote the above verse if you don't believe He is the law giver?

JN 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Jesus didn't give the law to Israel in the desert after departure from Egypt.

Now why don't you believe -

JN 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

 

[ace of hearts]

The problem was the Gnostics were inside the church trying to win people to their side, so the we is his mixed congregation. But you will see they soon leave.

The church is full of Gnostics these days. Not only are they full of them, they are also mostly under their control. Just be vocal about the truth and find out for your self.

1 John 2:
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Walking is being super-sensitized to the voice of the Spirit that he speaks through your tender conscience. You can be presented with a temptation and immediately walk away from it, never indulging. As far as the Corinthians, they had all the gifts of the Spirit in their church; however they did not know how to handle willful sinners, so they just let them stay in the congregation raising havoc. Paul told them to excommunicate them, even giving them over to Satan so they would come to their senses and see that they were not walking the walk. Then in 2 Cor. Paul tells them to bring them back once they had repented.

Certainly

What does it mean to you that we are not under the law but under grace? Romans 6 says we are dead to the sin so how can this struggle go on in someone who is already dead to sin. The answer is those who struggle are not dead to sin yet, and do not have the Spirit which is fully in chapter 8, though it begins in this chapter. Paul's audience are those who know the law and are walking in the law, not the Spirit.

I've not idea why you're asking me this. You read the forum and should know without doubt I don't promote a lifestyle of sin nor even justify an occasional sin. But to say I never do commit sin would be wrong and lying. Does that mean I need to confess to you some sin? What for? so I can be condemned by you? Ain't gonna happen. Didn't I testify to you about my local situation and my response to it?

Read the verses Romans 7-
1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Yes and amen to the above quote. I also employee and enjoin the same.

Sin’s Advantage in the Law
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Law Cannot Save from Sin
13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

The rest of the chapter shows the struggle to keep the law without the Spirit. Who can save them from the law and the sin it shows them? JESUS.

It shows the struggle with sin and the devil which wage war on our souls. Paul fully acknowledges this war as currently happening in his life in -

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

You can say this is about his past only, if you wish.

 

[ace of hearts]

Was Demas a Gnostic as in 1 John 1? I don't know the story.

What I know from a letter to Timothy is Paul fellowshiped with him as a Christian at one time. If you want to say Demas was a Gnostic that's OK with me. I just don't believe you can support that idea.

What is the difference between commit and practice to you. Shall I say "I don't practice fornication, so committing it tonight won't matter?"

You haven't picked up what I mean by my previous post. Why? How do I make it plain to you? Doesn't life style indicate a continuous habitual way of life? Do you understand the word "practice?"

1 John 1:9 is how to become a Christian. It would be the same as Acts 2:38-39.

No because this isn't evangelizing in context. Acts 2:38-39 is evangelizing.