I'm well aware of Christian beliefs about this - more than one version, actually.
Hey hey jane
Fair enough.
If your answer consists of Bible quotes and pontifications on Christian theology, spare yourself the trouble
Unfortunately i will need to quote scripture - when necessary - especially when discussing Christian theology. Ill try not to express things in a pompous way but im inclined to believe some principles are undeniably true, and there are principles or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.
I subscribe to absolute morality and i have had many experiences with God following His method. Wanna know anything ask?
The Satisfaction theory of Atonement; Christus Victor; the moral influence theory, etc.
Cool.
For those of you who are not familiar
The satisfaction theory of atonement is a theory in Christian theology that Jesus Christ suffered crucifixion as a substitute for human sin, satisfying God's just wrath against humankind's transgression due to Christ's infinite merit.
According to the Christus Victor theory of the atonement, Christ's death defeated the powers of evil, which had held humankind in their dominion.
The moral influence or example theory of the atonement holds that the purpose and work of Jesus Christ was to bring positive moral change to humanity. This moral change came through the teachings and example of Jesus, the Christian movement he founded, and the inspiring effect of his martyrdom and resurrection.
What they all share in common is the very thing I criticized in my previous post.
What they do have in common is the word theory. They are a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something.
Atonement is the action of making amends for a wrong or injury. It is used - in the NT sense - to describe the saving work that God did through Christ to reconcile the world to himself, and also of the state of a person having been reconciled to God.
Sacrifice accomplishes atonement "for sins" and therefore is redemption - the action of saving or being saved from sin, error, or evil.
1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation - which means to appease and in this case appease to God - for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
Romans 5:10
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Atonement in the OT
Genesis 4:4 Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions And the LORD had regard for Abel and for his offering.
Leviticus 23:26-27 The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, "On exactly the tenth day of this seventh month is the day of atonement; it shall be a holy convocation for you, and you shall humble your souls and present an offering by fire to the LORD. Then he shall bring to the priest his guilt offering to the LORD, a ram without defect from the flock, according to your valuation, for a guilt offering, and the priest shall make atonement for him before the LORD, and he will be forgiven for any one of the things which he may have done to incur guilt."
Atonement ie a sacrifice to atone for sins - THE main concept of Christianity - and integral to the saving nature of our Lord Jesus Christ.
He is the last and only way to atone and become reconciled to God. Jesus' atonement is similar to both the concept of a scapegoat in the OT and the sacrifical lamb. In the Bible, a scapegoat is an animal which is ritually burdened with the sins of others, then driven away.
The concept first appears in Leviticus, in which a goat is designated to be cast into the desert to carry away the sins of the community.
For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” –Mark 10:45
The Bible clearly states what atonement is, how it is accomplished and how Jesus fullfills it. We can extrapolate further like these theories you do but we already have enough information that is clearly presented.
Jesus died so that humans could have their sins forgiven and receive endless life. (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 1:7)
Jesus’ death also proved that a human can remain loyal to God even when faced with the severest of tests.—Hebrews 4:15.
Jesus died for “the forgiveness of our sins.”—Colossians 1:14.
Jesus died “so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.”
God’s law states that “the wages sin pays is death.” (Romans 6:23)
To sum up sin is a debt or a transgression against God and a reparation must be made to amend a wrong. What you think about all of this?
Atone for what? The whole question makes no sense.
Well i best explain myself.
I hit up
@Zoness for a discussion - hey there my friend.
Icon - "Hey hey zoness Lets go through them all one by one. Ill play devils advocate - a shame - you will be the pro side. We shall eplore together and come to a conclusion. Lets look at animism first. Why is animism more a draw card for you than Jesus? What is attractive about animism? Cheers hey"
We never did get to the end of our discussion. :,(
Anyways
@dlamberth had this to say about my post.
Dlamb - "i'd like at take a shot at this with a very simple answer. Absolutely everything you find in Jesus I find in Nature and Creation. I could also say: Every Creature is a Word of God trying to speak of God."
That comment intrigued me as it seemed to be pantheist position. It also inadvertently made nature equal with Jesus. The main deal about Jesus is atonement and reconciliation.
If what is found in Jesus is found in nature ie the light of God - hey
@dlamberth what is this light of God you speak of? - then i should be able to atone through nature ie Jesus and nature are the same. Make sense?
Morality is not a spiritual endeavour - it is a social one.
I agree it can include social behaviour. Why is it not a spiritual one?
Morality is to do with principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behaviour. The Bible states God's distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behaviour and what the results are of each behaviour.
From a Christian perspective it does relate to the human soul - more so - as opposed to material or physical things.
Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Punishment for breaking the law of the land results in different forms of reparation. With God's punishment does not involve a monetary fine, a gaol sentence or community service.
As such, it is pretty important to ensure that we get along with each other, cooperate, protect ourselves against harm from antisocial behaviour and develop a sense of community (just to mention a few).
Why should i get along with you? Why should you get along with me? How do you make a distinction between antisocial behaviour and good behaviour? Where do you get your morality from? Why should we team up as a community to protect each other?
Mixing religion and morality, however, usually results in pretty ugly mess.
How so?
At best, you end up with superfluous nonsense like "do not part your hair on the right side on a tuesday" or "never eat red fruit".
My dear this is an appeal to the extreme. We dont have such rules in my faith. Lets reverse it, you gave me worst possible outcome, not best ones, what is a good outcome of mixing religion and morality?
But at worst, you'll end up with stuff like public stoning for extramarital affairs, jail sentences for homosexual people or
Lets test your morality. Why do you believe it is wrong to stone a person for an extramarital affair? What is the distinction for good and bad behaviour when we consider gaol sentences for homosexual people?
breastfeeding mothers being arrested for "public indecency".
Does that happen? Cheers
