Jussie Smollett Attack is a Hoax

[Hank77]

The term “hate crime” is so stupid.

I think it's rather strange myself but for the life of me I can't think of a more appropriate description.
What would you call it when someone harms a stranger simply because they hate them for the color of their skin, how they live their life, their gender, their religion, their culture, etc.

We call it persecution when Christians are harmed simply because of their religion. What type of crime would that be if not a 'hate crime'. We could say simply 'murder, assault, etc. but it seems to be more grievous because it's impersonal and an attack on a whole group of people. In many cases this leads to even more attacks on that same group.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

I think it's rather strange myself but for the life of me I can't think of a more appropriate description.
What would you call it when someone harms a stranger simply because they hate them for the color of their skin, how they live their life, their gender, their religion, their culture, etc.
.

Assault

 

[SummerMadness]

The term “hate crime” is so stupid.

Yet no one seems to have a problem with terrorism charges. Given the target of the crime is a group, as opposed to a grievance against an individual, the crime is classified differently. That makes sense, and the law makes that distinction. Someone that beats people because they are white, targets all white people and should be prosecuted as such.

 

[Kenny'sID]

That would suggest the numbers are underreported, which would mean the rate of false accusations is even lower, that doesn't help the argument being levied of a large number of false reports.

How?

 

[SummerMadness]

How?

Even if they did not officially tally hate crimes, there is a sense of crimes based on bias on religion, race, and ethnicity. If someone did not report a crime because it's thought of as the way of life, then the tally for such crimes will be lower (e.g., anti-Catholic graffiti might not be reported to police, thus recordings of vandalism will be lower). If you factor in hoaxes, then you're overrepresenting hoaxes because the overall crime is underreported.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Even if they did not officially tally hate crimes, there is a sense of crimes based on bias on religion, race, and ethnicity. If someone did not report a crime because it's thought of as the way of life, then the tally for such crimes will be lower (e.g., anti-Catholic graffiti might not be reported to police, thus recordings of vandalism will be lower). If you factor in hoaxes, then you're overrepresenting hoaxes because the overall crime is underreported.

But you were saying one outweighed the other...right?

I mean your way over the fact that they couldn't be reported at all because there was no law.

 

[Kaon]

It would be interesting if the CPD is lying.. it wouldn't be the first time they have done some egrigious things.

Chicago officers acquitted of attempted cover-up in Laquan McDonald killing

The Chicago Police Department's History of Torture Is Now Documented Online - The Atlantic

Jon Burge and Chicago's legacy of police torture

Chicago Police Routinely Trampled on Civil Rights, Justice Dept. Says

Their wrongful convictions tossed, 19 sue Chicago, corrupt cop: 'This case illustrates what the code of silence is'

People framed by team of corrupt Chicago police office sue

Chicago cops stripped of powers as FBI probes ripoffs of drug dealers, sources say

10 more convictions connected to corrupt CPD sergeant overturned

 

[Kenny'sID]

Haven't read all the thread but if this hasn't been posted/mentioned yet...

'Empire' actor Jussie Smollett returns to work in Chicago

There are actually a couple of videos if you wait for the second.

No evidence found from video surveillance as of yet.

Jussie refused to turn over pertinent phone records

 

[SummerMadness]

Jussie refused to turn over pertinent phone records

That is false, he did turn over phone records. At the time, the police officer asked if he would give them his phone, which he didn't feel comfortable handing over his entire phone at the time, but would furnish records. A smart device is more than a phone, so it's understandable that you don't simply hand that over.

 

[Kenny'sID]

That is false, he did turn over phone records. At the time, the police officer asked if he would give them his phone, which he didn't feel comfortable handing over his entire phone at the time, but would furnish records. A smart device is more than a phone, so it's understandable that you don't simply hand that over.

I agree with not handing a phone over, did the reporter not say what I said, or did I misunderstand?

 

[SummerMadness]

But you were saying one outweighed the other...right?

I mean your way over the fact that they couldn't be reported at all because there was no law.

What are you talking about? Is it 1964? No. The argument is that hoaxes are a big problem, but the data suggests otherwise. The rate of hoaxes is low and given the spike and continued increase in hate crimes since 2016, that rate is even lower. This suggests that those focusing on hoaxes have misplaced outrage as the rate of false report is no higher than other crimes (yet they receive more attention).

 

[SummerMadness]

I agree with not handing a phone over, did the reporter not say what I said, or did I misunderstand?

Whatever the initial report was, it said he refused to hand over phone records, but it actually was refusal to hand over his cell phone at the time. A later report was that he was handing over his records.

 

[Kenny'sID]

What are you talking about? Is it 1964? No. The argument is that hoaxes are a big problem, but the data suggests otherwise. The rate of hoaxes is low and given the spike and continued increase in hate crimes since 2016, that rate is even lower. This suggests that those focusing on hoaxes have misplaced outrage as the rate of false report is no higher than other crimes (yet they receive more attention).

You missed the point of my original post there, or you insist on spinning it in your direction, something
I'm not going to bother with.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Whatever the initial report was, it said he refused to hand over phone records, but it actually was refusal to hand over his cell phone at the time. A later report was that he was handing over his records.

So who knows exactly what happened? lol.. Oh well.

 

[SummerMadness]

You missed the point of my original post there, or you insist on spinning it in your direction, something
I'm not going to bother with.

Someone made a post about current law and current statistics. Nothing about the 1960s is related to that, perhaps you can clarify the purpose of what you were posting.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Someone made a post about current law and current statistics. Nothing about the 1960s is related to that, perhaps you can clarify the purpose of what you were posting.

It's all there in the original post.

 

[jkjk]

What are you talking about? Is it 1964? No. The argument is that hoaxes are a big problem, but the data suggests otherwise. The rate of hoaxes is low and given the spike and continued increase in hate crimes since 2016, that rate is even lower. This suggests that those focusing on hoaxes have misplaced outrage as the rate of false report is no higher than other crimes (yet they receive more attention).

Hmmm... interesting for a liberal to argue that it is misplaced outrage to focus on relatively rare but high profile crimes in the context of false reports. Yet when conservatives make the same argument regarding "assault weapons," liberals tend to dismiss the argument out of hand.

I'm not taking a position on either argument, just noting the irony.

 

[SummerMadness]

Hmmm... interesting for a liberal to argue that it is misplaced outrage to focus on relatively rare but high profile crimes in the context of false reports. Yet when conservatives make the same argument regarding "assault weapons," liberals tend to dismiss the argument out of hand.

I'm not taking a position on either argument, just noting the irony.

Considering the off-topic argument they are not comparable. If you want something comparable, discuss false reports to the police. Mass shootings have a much higher frequency and victim count, but nice try.

 

[jkjk]

Considering the off-topic argument

It's off-topic to point out inconsistencies in the logic of the arguer?

they are not comparable.

I guess we'll have to disagree. You literally made the exact same argument that conservatives make regarding assault weapon bans. I'm not trying to hi-jack the thread, but I feel compelled to point out the logical inconsistency in the arguments of many who minimize the importance of supposedly rare events in some cases, but not in others.

If you want something comparable, discuss false reports to the police.

I thought that's what we were discussing.

Mass shootings have a much higher frequency and victim count, but nice try.

You are arguing that the deadliness of mass shootings makes it appropriate to set aside the logic we use for other types of situations, and do the opposite?

Not sure I buy the assertion that mass shootings are more common than false police reports--or that they necessarily have less victims. Though, clearly, the individual harm suffered by a shooting victim is generally much greater than the harm suffered by individual members of a class victimized by a hoax.

 

[SummerMadness]

It's off-topic to point out inconsistencies in the logic of the arguer?

I guess we'll have to disagree. You literally made the exact same argument that conservatives make regarding assault weapon bans. I'm not trying to hi-jack the thread, but I feel compelled to point out the logical inconsistency in the arguments of many who minimize the importance of supposedly rare events in some cases, but not in others.

But you are attempting to change the subject by distorting what is being discussed. The argument made was that the number of hoaxes has increased to a large number and this is a problem. However, this cannot be made without looking at the total number. The total number in 2016 and the successive increases each year for hate crimes that concurrently occurs with a decrease in the number of hoaxes show that the rate is not increasing, but decreasing. Moreover, the topic of false reporting is obviously an issue if the rate is much higher than that of other crimes, which it is not.

Attempts to distort my words by shoehorning a discussion about mass shootings is not going to work here.

I thought that's what we were discussing.

The discussion is the failure to show an increasing rate or a higher false report rate than for other crimes.

Not sure I buy the assertion that mass shootings are more common than false police reports--or that they necessarily have less victims. Though, clearly, the individual harm suffered by a shooting victim is generally much greater than the harm suffered by individual members of a class victimized by a hoax.

It's easy to see the distortion here, I'm talking rates and you're trying to make it about numbers, something not relevant without knowing the total. It's not the percentage, but the rate that matters.