WHERE DOES IT SAY GOD'S SABBATH IS ABOLSIHED AND WE ARE COMMANDED TO KEEP SUNDAY AS A HOLY DAY?

[Pavel Mosko]

hmmm, several things wrong with this. The law was not abolished it was fulfilled and the NT valued Sunday worship (implicitly) but it was not a commandment (or an implicit commandment). If we take the OP as it is then of course nowhere in the bible does it say the Sabbath was abolished and replaced with Sunday... this is a straw man and arguing its points will only cause it to implode and it will suck you in with it. This is also pretty deliberate and I'm not sure I can engage this kind of blatant misrepresentation and building an argument for something no one is defending.

YES! But it's worth it. You don't have a snowballs chance in hell of convincing this guy, but it helps the more reasonable people that read the thread. It's the old saying about Chinese word for Crisis being made up of the words (Danger and opportunity). That even with such problems there is opportunity to scoring positive points, especially with Christians that sort of vaguely believe in Sunday worship, but don't really know exactly why, and might be greatly taken aback when they run into their first hard core SDA, Jehovas Witness, or Anti-paganism thumping Messianic Jew.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

YES! But it's worth it. You don't have a snowballs chance in hell of convincing this guy, but it helps the more reasonable people that read the thread. It's the old saying about Chinese word for Crisis being made up of the words (Danger and opportunity). That even with such problems there is opportunity to scoring positive points, especially with Christians that sort of vaguely believe in Sunday worship, but don't really know exactly why, and might be greatly taken aback when they run into their first hard core SDA, Jehovas Witness, or Anti-paganism thumping Messianic Jew.

Rubbish. If you have scripture for your position please share it. If you do not then you have no scripture to support what you are doing. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it. *ROMANS 3:4. Anything outside of God's WORD is not God's WORD.

It is JESUS who says that all those who knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God brother not me *MATTHEW 15:2-9

Let me know when you have scripture to share? Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it.

God bless

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Bumping the OP so we can stay on target

The challenge I am putting up here in the OP is for anyone to show even one scripture that says God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) which was spoken and written by God himself to his people, has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

Can anyone please show me where in all the bible does is say (SOLA SCRIPTURA; Scripture only please)...

1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

...................

Something to think about here because we are all accountable to God come judgment day where we will all be judged by the Word of God (John 12:47-48).

God's Word makes it very clear that if we follow the teachings of men over the Word of God we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9 [3],
[3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift devoted to God, whatsoever you might have received from me;
[6], And honors not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God void by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
[8], These people draw near unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

If we are KNOWINGLY breaking ANY of God's commandments we are not worshipping God.

Look forward to your thoughts...

 

[DamianWarS]

YES! But it's worth it. You don't have a snowballs chance in hell of convincing this guy, but it helps the more reasonable people that read the thread. It's the old saying about Chinese word for Crisis being made up of the words (Danger and opportunity). That even with such problems there is opportunity to scoring positive points, especially with Christians that sort of vaguely believe in Sunday worship, but don't really know exactly why, and might be greatly taken aback when they run into their first hard core SDA, Jehovas Witness, or Anti-paganism thumping Messianic Jew.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

hmmm, several things wrong with this.

Guess I was correct you have no scripture do you.

 

[DamianWarS]

Guess I was correct you have no scripture do you.

You have two sides, your side and a pretend side that actually doesn't represent what anyone thinks (except people made of straw). Congratulations, you won an arbitrary argument that no one was defending.

 

[ace of hearts]

Here you go let me help...

FORTOLD IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES….

DEUTERONOMY 30:6 [6] And the LORD your God will CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEART AND THE HEART OF YOUR DECENDENCE, TO LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND WITHYOU’RE YOUR SOUL, THAT YOU MAY LIVE.

JEREMIAH 4:4 [4] CIRCUMCISE YOURSELF TO THE LORD, AND TAKE AWAY THE FORESKINS OF YOUR HEART, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

DEUTERONOMY 10:16 [16] CIRCUMCISE therefore THE FORESKIN OF YOUR HEART, and be no more stiff-necked.

NEW COVENANT FULFILLMENT of the SHADOWS of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing the CIRCUMCISION of the HEART through faith in Christ…

ROMANS 2:25 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

1 CORITHIANS 7:19 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

This is the operation of GOD in the NEW COVENANT…

HEBREWS 8 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people

Hope this helps

You didn't deal with verse 5.

 

[Selene03]

The challenge I am putting up here in the OP is for anyone to show even one scripture that says God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) which was spoken and written by God himself to his people, has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

Can anyone please show me where in all the bible does is say (SOLA SCRIPTURA; Scripture only please)...

1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

...................

Something to think about here because we are all accountable to God come judgment day where we will all be judged by the Word of God (John 12:47-48).

God's Word makes it very clear that if we follow the teachings of men over the Word of God we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9 [3],
[3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift devoted to God, whatsoever you might have received from me;
[6], And honors not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God void by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
[8], These people draw near unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

If we are KNOWINGLY breaking ANY of God's commandments we are not worshipping God.

Look forward to your thoughts...

The Sabbath is the only commandment that can be change because it was linked to the old creation when God created the land, sea, and everything in it and then rested on the seventh day. The Sabbath was linked to the first or old creation.

Exodus 20:10-11 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

The Lord's day is the first day of the week, which is also called the "eighth day." It is called the "eighth day" because the "eighth day" was a new creation. A new creation brings about a new sabbath.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Christ, who is Lord of the Sabbath, rose from the dead on Sunday, which is the first day of the week. The first day recalls the first creation. Because it's follows the sabbath, it's also called the "eighth day and symbolized the new creation ushered in by Christ's resurrection. For Christians, it is the Lord's Day.

The Old Testament is a foreshadow of things to come. The Old Testament says that there will be a "Lord's Day" and that is the day we should rejoice (See Psalm 118:24).

Psalms 118:24 This is the day the LORD has made; We will rejoice and be glad in it.

God has made a new day.....a new creation. It's called the "Lord's Day" because it is the fulfilment in Him of the first creation and the dawn of "the new creation." Sunday replaced the Sabbath for Christians because Christ's Passover fulfills the truth of the Jewish Sabbath.

 

[ace of hearts]

Scripture verse please? If I remember correctly, the Greek text does not say "first day of the week." If you're referring to Acts 20:7 it actually says the church came together on one of the sabbatōn. The word sabbatōn is Sabbaths.

If we follow your argument here then there would two of the sabbatōn. If one reads the text it's clear that your verse doesn't say one of the sabbaths.

The Greek literally says "one the sabbath".

 

[dstamps]

Scripture's Purpose, as given by GOD, is to teach Man how to be reborn and filled with the ways that are eternal. To do this, GOD first tells Man how he is in the image of GOD. That image has 7 aspects: Spirit, Principle, Intellect, Soul, Life, Truth, and Love. For Man to be reborn, he must go through an uncountable number of small changes that are unified into large changes over time. Each small change results in a change in each of the 7 aspects. Man becomes what he Loves; and that is the final aspect changed. It is a time of rest to represent the reality that when we seek with a strong desire to acquire anything, we enter a state of relief, joy, and love for what we have acquired.

Now the 8th day is when Man can begin living the result of any change that has been acquired. It is also the day that a new cycle can begin. Remember that an Israelite baby was circumcised on the 8th day.

They also had the Day of Pentecost which was the 50th day, which is 7x7+1(the 8th day)=50. This denotes the concept of many small changes that result in a unified large change, which can be lived on the 50th (8th) day. This is similar to building a structure out of Legos. You can't put the second Lego in place until you have put the first in place, etc. Eventually, your structure is complete. It is also similar to a person becoming a concert pianist. The future pianist must learn the basics and keep growing in understanding until the goal is reached. These examples represent the 50th day concept. All of us have followed this procedure--probably many times in our life. We need to do the same with understanding and living the ways that are eternal.

The Sabbath Day represents a state of completed spiritual change--not a particular physical day. If anyone desires to denote a particular physical day to represent this extremely important concept, no one should frown on them for doing so.

 

[ace of hearts]

Hi Marty, nice to meet you brother. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Scripture please? Where does it say in God's WORD that JESUS is a SABBATH? According to God's WORD the SABBATH is definded as the SEVENTH DAY of the week.

EXODUS 20:10 BUT THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD..

And Hosea says the sabbath will cease. It specifically says the one given to Israel. What's your proof there was a different sabbath than the one in Ex 20?

Moses says the sabbath is a sign for Israel, not the world. Ex 31:13, 17.
So by what you're posting one of them (Moses or Jesus) is wrong which is called lying.

 

[ace of hearts]

Hi Marty, nice to meet you brother. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Scripture please? Where does it say in God's WORD that JESUS is a SABBATH? According to God's WORD the SABBATH is definded as the SEVENTH DAY of the week.

EXODUS 20:10 BUT THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD..

The SEVENTH DAY SABBATH was made for mankind and JESUS is the LORD (Creator) of the SABBATH *MARK 2:26-27 and commands us in the 4th Commandment to keep the SEVENTH DAY as a HOLY DAY *EXODUS 20:8-11.

There is no scripture that says JESUS is a SABBATH but there are scriptures saying that JESUS is the LORD and creator of the SABBATH which God's WORD defines as the SEVENTH DAY of the week.

God bless.

Then indeed Col 2:16-17 is speaking of the sabbath because here you clearly say without coercion the sabbath is a holy day.

 

[ace of hearts]

I like sharing God's WORD with you brother David

Not at all David. You were shown in God's WORD in post # 74 linked, that SIN is defined as breaking God's LAW (10 commandments) and the scriptures provided defined their CONTEXT to God's 10 Commandments from JAMES, PAUL, and JOHN who actually quote one or more of God's 10 commandments in their definitions of breaking any one of God's 10 commandments as being SIN *JAMES 2:8-10; ROMANS 7:7; ROMANS 3:20; 1 JOHN 3:4; 12-15.

So brother this is what I am posting and why I have porvided *JAMES 2:8-10; ROMANS 7:7; ROMANS 3:20; 1 JOHN 3:4; 12-15 as proof texts. Are you agreeing with me now? Your posting is a little confusing.

Of course brother we should have no respect to showing LOVE to different people just as God's LAW has no respect to those who BREAK it. This is what JAMES 2:8-12 is talking about. You are part quoting to JAMES 2:8-9 but then ignore JAMES 2:10-11.

Valuing the rich above the poor James is saying is sin isn't one of God's commandments. Neither is this -
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James isn't promoting works of or obedience to the law.

God's 10 commandments are God's ROYAL LAW of how LOVE is expressed as shown by JESUS in MATTHEW 22:36-40 and PAUL in ROMANS 13:8-10 and JAMES 2:8-12.
[/quote]The law (famous 10) isn't called the royal law anywhere in Scripture. BTW neither is the law of liberty.

Let's add JAMES 2:10-11 back into the conversation because I did quote these scriptures in support to show that if we break any one of God's 10 Commandments we commit SIN.

JAMES 2:10-11 [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

Only if you're subject to the law.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

My answer to the OP is the same as the last several threads on the subject. The old lunar calendar that was in use during the establishment of the Sabbath does not put it either on Sunday nor Saturday (nor Friday at sundown). If you would condemn us for celebrating it on the wrong day, then you condemn yourself. I'd like to know how you think a solar calendar established by Romans just happens to coincide with the old lunar Hebrew calendar? Answer: it doesn't.

Even the Jews of today don't celebrate it on the original seventh day. As far as I know, no one does.

 

[DamianWarS]

Bumping the OP so we can stay on target

the OP is a straw man so if you want me to stay on target then...

 

[ace of hearts]

If we have no LAW then we have no KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is.

That's is bunk. Pharaoh and Moses both knew what sin was before the law that didn't come prior to Israel's departure from Egypt.

 

[ace of hearts]

Rubbish. If you have scripture for your position please share it. If you do not then you have no scripture to support what you are doing. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it. *ROMANS 3:4. Anything outside of God's WORD is not God's WORD.

It is JESUS who says that all those who knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God brother not me *MATTHEW 15:2-9

Let me know when you have scripture to share? Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it.

God bless

Let us know when you stop accusing everyone that doesn't agree with as being liars and people not having salvation.

 

[Saint Steven]

The challenge I am putting up here in the OP is for anyone to show even one scripture that says God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) which was spoken and written by God himself to his people, has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day....

This is a strawman argument.
Who is claiming that the Sabbath "... has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day"?

And why don't Sabbatarians ever quote the Sabbath commandment to the Israelites from Deuteronomy? That tells us who the Sabbath is for. (the Israelites)

Deuteronomy 5:15
Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

 

[rockytopva]

And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. - Acts 20:7

And we have been doing it ever since. No word on worshipping on Saturday.

 

[ace of hearts]

This is a strawman argument.
Who is claiming that the Sabbath "... has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day"?

And why don't Sabbatarians ever quote the Sabbath commandment to the Israelites from Deuteronomy? That tells us who the Sabbath is for. (the Israelites)

Deuteronomy 5:15
Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

Because it doesn't support their argument.