Do you think reading the bible is important?

[brinny]

I disagree.

You made it about that Jeff.

Do you know what that verse says or Deut 28:2?

 

[cloudyday2]

Originally it was all oral tradition, and even after the penning of New Testament texts they were expensive. A normal Christian probably only read the Bible indirectly by listening to the readings in Sunday's liturgy.

In some ways a fixed and inflexible religious text dooms a religion to eventual irrelevance, because it cannot change with the times. Judaism has been able to survive by adding non-canonical text that updates the meaning and relevance of the canonical text. Another analogy is how the fixed text of the US Constitution has been updated by case law.

So probably Christians can rely on the oral traditions of Christianity such as sermons and do fine.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I disagree.

You made it about that Jeff.

Do you know what that verse says or Deut 28:2?

No.
You missed the point entirely.

 

[brinny]

No.
You missed the point entirely.

i disagree.

You missed my point, Jeff.

Read my first post in this thread. That was my stance in entering the thread after the title of it caught my attention.

You posted later in the thread, a question about knowing right off the bat what a particular verse says.

I, in turn, posted a verse or two asking the same thing.

By the way, you have not responded to either question about the verses.

They are both rather delightful, by the way, Jeff.

Peace.

 

[eleos1954]

A person was talking about jesus with me recently, and during our conversation she admitted she's never actually read the bible. She's only only ever watched "the passion of christ". In fact I've met several people like that one of them even wanted to convert me. So my question is do you think its important for a Christian to have read the bible?

It's important.

A primary way God chooses to impart strength is through the testimony of Scripture. Through his Word, we see his character, his work, his faithfulness, his justice, his promise, and his love. These give us strength in suffering because they remind us of the truth—that we are being made into the likeness of our greatest love, Jesus, and are being prepared to live with him in glory. This doesn’t mean we won’t have heartache and setbacks on earth, but that we have an unshakable hope and help from Him to get us through those times.

Without the regular infusion of hope and help from the Bible, we will more easily fall into despair. Feelings of hopelessness will grow instead of security in the promises of God. If one wants to be tossed around by every struggle, succumb to every sorrow, and be overwhelmed by the pain of the world, neglect the scriptures.

 

[TheOldWays]

Instead of rejecting God, reject the so-called "framework" as you called it, IF rejecting that "framework" will make it TODAY POSSIBLE for you to seek the TRUTH and BELIEVE HIM, so that you will not be condemned with the rest of the sons of disobedience (most of the world).

It's all good. Once the shell is cracked, it's hard to crawl back inside the egg, as you know what's outside of it. And even if I wanted to go back inside the egg, the shell is already cracked and it just won't fit right.

 

[Robban]

The psalmist wrote, I have exalted my word above all my name...

I made note of that verse just the other day.
Psalms 138:2,
I will bow toward Your Holy Sanctury and praise Your Name,

for Your kindness and Your truth,

for You have exalted "Your Word" above all Your names.

 

[Robban]

I´m sorry if i wrote it wrong, what i meant with knowing it all, was not knowing every bible verse, but what the bible is about.

BTW, great you are from Denmark,

Want to make you feel at home,

used to be a big fan of Kim and Gasolin.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Hard to say. I do think Christianity's reliance on scriptures is one of its biggest problems, but not one easily remedied since it's such a large part of the structure of the religion. I do know when I was a Christian, the more I read the Bible, the less I believed it. A lot of that may have been based on the framework I was viewing the Bible through at the time. But to each their own.

Since Ekklesia (born again from above, by the Will of Yahweh, not by any man's way)
all
love Yahweh's Word

and hunger and thirst for His Word and His Righteousness every day,

find out, if He Permits you to, what is the truth , FROM HIM. (and from His Word)Instead of from men (who are usually not trustworthy nor honest).

The "reasons" you did not believe the Bible as you read it,

must be, it seems, because someone lied to you and you chose to believe them

instead of the Bible. Maybe someone gave you false information when you asked questions about the Bible - like many groups pass on false info to their own members every day.

See? God's Word is Truth, and has never changed, and is right .

How then, could reading His Word cause you not to believe it, unless someone told you false information about what you read?

 

[Robban]

BTW, great you are from Denmark,

Want to make you feel at home,

used to be a big fan of Kim and Gasolin.

To anyone curious it is what one could call a pilgrim song

 

[Soul-searching]

BTW, great you are from Denmark,

Want to make you feel at home,

used to be a big fan of Kim and Gasolin.

Hello Neighbor Thank you very much Robban! Yes, Sad he died, he was a big piece of our culture, but he had a long and joyful life i´m sure. He made lots of people happy with his music, left a great footprint here on earth, and Like with all the others, his music will probably live forever.

 

[dlamberth]

Since Ekklesia (born again from above, by the Will of Yahweh, not by any man's way)
all
love Yahweh's Word

and hunger and thirst for His Word and His Righteousness every day,

find out, if He Permits you to, what is the truth , FROM HIM. (and from His Word)Instead of from men (who are usually not trustworthy nor honest).

The "reasons" you did not believe the Bible as you read it,

must be, it seems, because someone lied to you and you chose to believe them

instead of the Bible. Maybe someone gave you false information when you asked questions about the Bible - like many groups pass on false info to their own members every day.

See? God's Word is Truth, and has never changed, and is right .

How then, could reading His Word cause you not to believe it, unless someone told you false information about what you read?

Having read the Bible, I found the foundation of God that is presented as being the same stuff as the images that is drawn from the Ancient Greeks and their Pagan Gods. It's an image of a God who stands apart and separate for His own Creation passing judgments, causing floods, directing wars and all sorts of angry and rebellious shenanigans. I'm a Lover of God...but not that God. Which explains my unbelief in the Bible.

 

[TheOldWays]

How then, could reading His Word cause you not to believe it, unless someone told you false information about what you read?

i think it was because i decided to be honest with myself.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

i think it was because i decided to be honest with myself.

That never helped anyone, in Scripture, unless they turned to Yahweh to obey Him after living as a son of disobedience subject to the prince of the power of the air.

 

[dlamberth]

That never helped anyone, in Scripture, unless they turned to Yahweh to obey Him after living as a son of disobedience subject to the prince of the power of the air.

Interesting thought there. It was being honest with myself that opened me up to the awareness of the Diving presence bubbling up all a round me. I don't know what it was, except that maybe perhaps it's the Sacred Scripture of God that I found in Nature?

 

[Robban]

Originally it was all oral tradition, and even after the penning of New Testament texts they were expensive. A normal Christian probably only read the Bible indirectly by listening to the readings in Sunday's liturgy.

In some ways a fixed and inflexible religious text dooms a religion to eventual irrelevance, because it cannot change with the times. Judaism has been able to survive by adding non-canonical text that updates the meaning and relevance of the canonical text. Another analogy is how the fixed text of the US Constitution has been updated by case law.

So probably Christians can rely on the oral traditions of Christianity such as sermons and do fine.

Storytelling is effective,

Before times when a Sage arrived in a village, there was always one villager that had the gift of memory.
So he would listen and remember so that he could repeat long after the Sage had left.

For even if all the villagers were gathered, not all could take it all in just at the time.

If the Sage came in extas, (which could happen)
if he collapsed and rolled around on the floor,

the one who,s task was to remember,
he had to roll around on the floor too,
so as not to miss a word.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Storytelling is effective,

Before times when a Sage arrived in a village, there was always one villager that had the gift of memory.
So he would listen and remember so that he could repeat long after the Sage had left.

For even if all the villagers were gathered, not all could take it all in just at the time.

If the Sage came in extas, (which could happen)
if he collapsed and rolled around on the floor,

the one who,s task was to remember,
he had to roll around on the floor too,
so as not to miss a word.

Matthew 6 The Message (MSG)
The World Is Not a Stage
6 “Be especially careful when you are trying to be good so that you don’t make a performance out of it. It might be good theater, but the God who made you won’t be applauding.

2-4 “When you do something for someone else, don’t call attention to yourself. You’ve seen them in action, I’m sure—‘playactors’ I call them—treating prayer meeting and street corner alike as a stage, acting compassionate as long as someone is watching, playing to the crowds. They get applause, true, but that’s all they get. When you help someone out, don’t think about how it looks. Just do it—quietly and unobtrusively. That is the way your God, who conceived you in love, working behind the scenes, helps you out.

Pray with Simplicity
5 “And when you come before God, don’t turn that into a theatrical production either. All these people making a regular show out of their prayers, hoping for stardom! Do you think God sits in a box seat?

6 “Here’s what I want you to do: Find a quiet, secluded place so you won’t be tempted to role-play before God. Just be there as simply and honestly as you can manage. The focus will shift from you to God, and you will begin to sense his grace.

7-13 “The world is full of so-called prayer warriors who are prayer-ignorant. They’re full of formulas and programs and advice, peddling techniques for getting what you want from God. Don’t fall for that nonsense. This is your Father you are dealing with, and he knows better than you what you need. With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this:

Our Father in heaven,
Reveal who you are.
Set the world right;
Do what’s best—
as above, so below.
Keep us alive with three square meals.
Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others.
Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil.
You’re in charge!
You can do anything you want!
You’re ablaze in beauty!
Yes. Yes. Yes.

14-15 “In prayer there is a connection between what God does and what you do. You can’t get forgiveness from God, for instance, without also forgiving others. If you refuse to do your part, you cut yourself off from God’s part.

16-18 “When you practice some appetite-denying discipline to better concentrate on God, don’t make a production out of it. It might turn you into a small-time celebrity but it won’t make you a saint. If you ‘go into training’ inwardly, act normal outwardly. Shampoo and comb your hair, brush your teeth, wash your face. God doesn’t require attention-getting devices. He won’t overlook what you are doing; he’ll reward you well.

A Life of God-Worship
19-21 “Don’t hoard treasure down here where it gets eaten by moths and corroded by rust or—worse!—stolen by burglars. Stockpile treasure in heaven, where it’s safe from moth and rust and burglars. It’s obvious, isn’t it? The place where your treasure is, is the place you will most want to be, and end up being.

22-23 “Your eyes are windows into your body. If you open your eyes wide in wonder and belief, your body fills up with light. If you live squinty-eyed in greed and distrust, your body is a dank cellar. If you pull the blinds on your windows, what a dark life you will have!

24 “You can’t worship two gods at once. Loving one god, you’ll end up hating the other. Adoration of one feeds contempt for the other. You can’t worship God and Money both.

25-26 “If you decide for God, living a life of God-worship, it follows that you don’t fuss about what’s on the table at mealtimes or whether the clothes in your closet are in fashion. There is far more to your life than the food you put in your stomach, more to your outer appearance than the clothes you hang on your body. Look at the birds, free and unfettered, not tied down to a job description, careless in the care of God. And you count far more to him than birds.

27-29 “Has anyone by fussing in front of the mirror ever gotten taller by so much as an inch? All this time and money wasted on fashion—do you think it makes that much difference? Instead of looking at the fashions, walk out into the fields and look at the wildflowers. They never primp or shop, but have you ever seen color and design quite like it? The ten best-dressed men and women in the country look shabby alongside them.

30-33 “If God gives such attention to the appearance of wildflowers—most of which are never even seen—don’t you think he’ll attend to you, take pride in you, do his best for you? What I’m trying to do here is to get you to relax, to not be so preoccupied with getting, so you can respond to God’s giving. People who don’t know God and the way he works fuss over these things, but you know both God and how he works. Steep your life in God-reality, God-initiative, God-provisions. Don’t worry about missing out. You’ll find all your everyday human concerns will be met.

34 “Give your entire attention to what God is doing right now, and don’t get worked up about what may or may not happen tomorrow. God will help you deal with whatever hard things come up when the time comes.

The Message (MSG)
Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson

 

[Robban]

Matthew 6 The Message (MSG)
The World Is Not a Stage
6 “Be especially careful when you are trying to be good so that you don’t make a performance out of it. It might be good theater, but the God who made you won’t be applauding.

2-4 “When you do something for someone else, don’t call attention to yourself. You’ve seen them in action, I’m sure—‘playactors’ I call them—treating prayer meeting and street corner alike as a stage, acting compassionate as long as someone is watching, playing to the crowds. They get applause, true, but that’s all they get. When you help someone out, don’t think about how it looks. Just do it—quietly and unobtrusively. That is the way your God, who conceived you in love, working behind the scenes, helps you out.

Pray with Simplicity
5 “And when you come before God, don’t turn that into a theatrical production either. All these people making a regular show out of their prayers, hoping for stardom! Do you think God sits in a box seat?

6 “Here’s what I want you to do: Find a quiet, secluded place so you won’t be tempted to role-play before God. Just be there as simply and honestly as you can manage. The focus will shift from you to God, and you will begin to sense his grace.

7-13 “The world is full of so-called prayer warriors who are prayer-ignorant. They’re full of formulas and programs and advice, peddling techniques for getting what you want from God. Don’t fall for that nonsense. This is your Father you are dealing with, and he knows better than you what you need. With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this:

Our Father in heaven,
Reveal who you are.
Set the world right;
Do what’s best—
as above, so below.
Keep us alive with three square meals.
Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others.
Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil.
You’re in charge!
You can do anything you want!
You’re ablaze in beauty!
Yes. Yes. Yes.

14-15 “In prayer there is a connection between what God does and what you do. You can’t get forgiveness from God, for instance, without also forgiving others. If you refuse to do your part, you cut yourself off from God’s part.

16-18 “When you practice some appetite-denying discipline to better concentrate on God, don’t make a production out of it. It might turn you into a small-time celebrity but it won’t make you a saint. If you ‘go into training’ inwardly, act normal outwardly. Shampoo and comb your hair, brush your teeth, wash your face. God doesn’t require attention-getting devices. He won’t overlook what you are doing; he’ll reward you well.

A Life of God-Worship
19-21 “Don’t hoard treasure down here where it gets eaten by moths and corroded by rust or—worse!—stolen by burglars. Stockpile treasure in heaven, where it’s safe from moth and rust and burglars. It’s obvious, isn’t it? The place where your treasure is, is the place you will most want to be, and end up being.

22-23 “Your eyes are windows into your body. If you open your eyes wide in wonder and belief, your body fills up with light. If you live squinty-eyed in greed and distrust, your body is a dank cellar. If you pull the blinds on your windows, what a dark life you will have!

24 “You can’t worship two gods at once. Loving one god, you’ll end up hating the other. Adoration of one feeds contempt for the other. You can’t worship God and Money both.

25-26 “If you decide for God, living a life of God-worship, it follows that you don’t fuss about what’s on the table at mealtimes or whether the clothes in your closet are in fashion. There is far more to your life than the food you put in your stomach, more to your outer appearance than the clothes you hang on your body. Look at the birds, free and unfettered, not tied down to a job description, careless in the care of God. And you count far more to him than birds.

27-29 “Has anyone by fussing in front of the mirror ever gotten taller by so much as an inch? All this time and money wasted on fashion—do you think it makes that much difference? Instead of looking at the fashions, walk out into the fields and look at the wildflowers. They never primp or shop, but have you ever seen color and design quite like it? The ten best-dressed men and women in the country look shabby alongside them.

30-33 “If God gives such attention to the appearance of wildflowers—most of which are never even seen—don’t you think he’ll attend to you, take pride in you, do his best for you? What I’m trying to do here is to get you to relax, to not be so preoccupied with getting, so you can respond to God’s giving. People who don’t know God and the way he works fuss over these things, but you know both God and how he works. Steep your life in God-reality, God-initiative, God-provisions. Don’t worry about missing out. You’ll find all your everyday human concerns will be met.

34 “Give your entire attention to what God is doing right now, and don’t get worked up about what may or may not happen tomorrow. God will help you deal with whatever hard things come up when the time comes.

The Message (MSG)
Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson

Good, go and do that and live.

 

[Robban]

Yeah, I have to admit I am optimistic.

A little hint, when I want your advice on anything, I will ask for it.

Now it,s your turn to be optimistic.

 

[Robban]

No thanks.