predestined

[SayaOtonashi]

Since God knows all does this mean we can't change our fates? That those who are saved are all saved and those who are damned can't change their fates?

 

[redleghunter]

We are all condemned. God in His rich Mercy and Grace calls us.

We don’t know who is elect. Our job is to preach the Gospel.

 

[Jonaitis]

Well, part of the doctrine of (double) predestination teaches us that

1. If you came willingly to Christ, receiving and resting in the perfect person and finished work of Jesus Christ by faith, you did so by the secret work of his Spirit changing your whole disposition (mind, heart, and will) when the gospel was preached to you. He drew you to himself, to act what you should want for yourself.

2. If you had refused to come to Christ, rejecting all of his benefits in unbelief, you did so by your own sinful heart without any change at all from God's Spirit. He left you to yourself to act from yourself to chose what you want for yourself.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Since God knows all does this mean we can't change our fates? That those who are saved are all saved and those who are damned can't change their fates?

What would be the point of even bothering to write the bible if that were so? What is going to happen would just happen, no matter what. Actually, if predestination was a fact, we might as well be sent straigh to heaven or hell and not even bother with the in between, it would be a waste of time.

Or in short, predestination is ridiculous, and would make us a bunch of no free will robots... don't you believe it.

We absolutely can change our fate. The only thing predestined is what was planned, things like Christ coming to earth, Heaven and Hell, you know the whole salvation plan/deal God gave us , our creation and so forth. What we do, how we end up is all on us. We accept Christ, live right and go to heaven, we don't and we don't.

 

[redleghunter]

What would be the point of even bothering to write the bible if that were so? What is going to happen would just happen, no matter what. Actually, if predestination was a fact, we might as well be sent straigh to heaven or hell and not even bother with the in between, it would be a waste of time.

Or in short, predestination is ridiculous, and would make us a bunch of no free will robots... don't you believe it.

We absolutely can change our fate. The only thing predestined is what was planned, things like Christ coming to earth, Heaven and Hell, you know the whole salvation plan/deal gave us and some things that led up to that. What we do, how we end up is all on us. We accept Christ, live right and go to heaven, we don't and we don't.

God does not know the future?

 

[Kenny'sID]

God does not know the future?

I honestly don't know if he knows who will be saved or not, but it doesn't matter either way, knowing or not changes nothing with our fee will.

 

[Jonaitis]

What would be the point of even bothering to write the bible if that were so? What is going to happen would just happen, no matter what. Actually, if predestination was a fact, we might as well be sent straigh to heaven or hell and not even bother with the in between, it would be a waste of time.

Or in short, predestination is ridiculous, and would make us a bunch of no free will robots... don't you believe it.

We absolutely can change our fate. The only thing predestined is what was planned, things like Christ coming to earth, Heaven and Hell, you know the whole salvation plan/deal God gave us , our creation and so forth. What we do, how we end up is all on us. We accept Christ, live right and go to heaven, we don't and we don't.

So, only certain things were planned out but everything else was up to contingency and chance? How does that work out?

 

[redleghunter]

I honestly don't know if he knows who will be saved or not, but it doesn't matter either way, knowing or not changes nothing with our fee will.

Our free will moves the will of God?

 

[redleghunter]

Since God knows all does this mean we can't change our fates? That those who are saved are all saved and those who are damned can't change their fates?

God knowing in what way makes the situation uncomfortable?

 

[Kenny'sID]

So, only certain things were planned out but everything else was up to contingency and chance? How does that work out?

How does it work out? we shall see in the end.

How does it work? Just like when you plan your child's life, you plan to and feed them buy them a first vehicle, teach them manners, and so forth. You plan the best you can for them but what they do with it is up to them. What you don't do is wind them up, flip them on to only do what they are programmed to do.

What would be the point of life if it were all predestined?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Our free will moves the will of God?

I have no idea what you mean or why your asking that? If you have something to say, say it.

 

[MDC]

I honestly don't know if he knows who will be saved or not, but it doesn't matter either way, knowing or not changes nothing with our fee will.

Perfect example of elevating mans will above Gods will. This statement is foolish and full of arrogance

 

[Kenny'sID]

So, only certain things were planned out but everything else was up to contingency and chance?

No it's not up to chance, what we do is up to us.

Why is that even a question?

 

[redleghunter]

I have no idea what you mean or why your asking that? If you have something to say, say it.

I understand we hu-mans have a will and purpose. Our informed or uninformed choices are based on the bondage of the will (Romans 6).

Does not God have a Will and Purpose too? Doesn’t He make choices?

And why would His Will and Purpose be bound by time, space and matter the very things He created?

Would not the attributes of God be eternal and have no beginning or end?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Perfect example of elevating mans will above Gods will. This statement is foolish and full of arrogance

You people really need to finish your posts. Making such an accusation without explaining "why" makes it not only just an opinion, but an invalid one, at least until you make it valid.

Why is it that example? Why is it foolish. Why is it arrogant...you follow me?

 

[Kenny'sID]

I understand we hu-mans have a will and purpose. Our informed or uninformed choices are based on the bondage of the will (Romans 6).

Does not God have a Will and Purpose too? Doesn’t He make choices?

And why would His Will and Purpose be bound by time, space and matter the very things He created?

Would not the attributes of God be eternal and have no beginning or end?

Did I argue with any of that, if so, where did that happen?

 

[Loyce KG]

I honestly don't know if he knows who will be saved or not, but it doesn't matter either way, knowing or not changes nothing with our fee will.

If you believe that God doesn't know who will be saved or not, you are putting Him in a box. God is sovereign, all-knowing, ever-present. He knows the beginning from the end which means God knows who would believe and not believe in Him. The choice to believe is initiated by Him though the gift of grace and faith. Man's part is to respond to that invitation.

 

[Jonaitis]

How does it work? Just like when you plan your child's life, you plan to and feed them buy them a first vehicle, teach them manners, and so forth. You plan the best you can for them but what they do with it is up to them.

Well, this sounds like Deism, that there is a God out there who just watches and does not intervene in the affairs of the world.

I think Isaiah differs on that:

"I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose'..." (Isaiah 46:10).

And we read in Job:

"I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted" (Job 42:2)

Can we thwart the plans and purposes of God?

What would be the point of life if it were all predestined?

I don't understand this question. We live our lives, but at the same time it was predestined to occur.

 

[Kenny'sID]

If you believe that God doesn't know who will be saved or not, you are putting Him in a box. God is sovereign, all-knowing, ever-present. He knows the beginning from the end which means God knows who would believe and not believe in Him. The choice to believe is initiated by Him though the gift of grace and faith. Man's part is to respond to that invitation.

You aren't paying attention, please go back and read what I said, and I stick with that.

 

[redleghunter]

Did I argue with any of that, if so, where did that happen?

What you state evokes more questions than answers. Especially on some basic Biblical doctrines as the immutability of God, omniscience and omnipresence.

To preserve the non-Biblical doctrine of Libertarian free will one puts them in a position to be asked the questions I am asking.