Revelation in order?

[Douggg]

That's not true. The mark isn't imposed worldwide. That's what the experts are telling you but it's not true. The mark is the Islamic zebiba and it will only be active within the Islamic Empire or Caliphate of the beast.

You are saying the mark of the beast is some permanent bruise a muslim gets from bowing in prayer, forehead against the mat.

But the mark of the beast has two other requirements that rules out your suggestion.

1. It is not just the mark of the beast - but the mark of his name.

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

2. It also can be on a person's right hand. Which that forehead bruise you are claiming is the mark of the beast, does not appear on the right hand of muslims.

Revelaton 16:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

.

 

[ewq1938]

That's not true. The mark isn't imposed worldwide. That's what the experts are telling you but it's not true. The mark is the Islamic zebiba and it will only be active within the Islamic Empire or Caliphate of the beast.

There's not one reason to presume any Church would accept it. The only Christians required to do so would be those within the empire of the beast. This is the mark...

View attachment 248863

The mark of the beast cannot even exist until after the Rev 13:1 beast is ruling, and not before the second beast rises and causes people to make the image of the beast. Then the FP will cause the image to be alive and not until all of that does he issue out the mark. It has nothing to do with Muslims plus the mark can be on the forehead or the right hand which further disproves your forehead callus theory.

 

[SamanthaAnastasia]

The mark of the beast cannot even exist until after the Rev 13:1 beast is ruling, and not before the second beast rises and causes people to make the image of the beast. Then the FP will cause the image to be alive and not until all of that does he issue out the mark. It has nothing to do with Muslims plus the mark can be on the forehead or the right hand which further disproves your forehead callus theory.

It just makes me have anxiety because sometimes I’m scared we have already been marked. But I know it’s anxiety

 

[Revealing Times]

There is nothing in the text indicating some convoluted overlapping judgments, that's in an invention that simply distorts the natural narrative.

No one spoke of OVERLAPPING Judgments. The Judgment on Babylon in Rev 18 are the SEA, TRUMPET and VIAL judgments so that is not OVERLAPPING. The BoR is the Order of the Judgments with an OVERVIEW followed by a specific detailed account of different events.

Rev. 11 has the 2nd Woe WITHOUT any DETAILS !! But Rev. 9 has the details to the 2nd Woe.

Rev. 11 has the 3rd Woe WITHOUT any DETAILS. !! Rev. 16 has the details of the 3rd Woe (7 Vials).

This is easy stuff for me because the Lord has blessed me with insight.

 

[Revealing Times]

It just makes me have anxiety because sometimes I’m scared we have already been marked. But I know it’s anxiety

Negative, don't believe that.....God is a gracious God only rejects those who knowingly reject him. The Mark of the Beast will not happen until after the Rapture anyway, like ewq 1938 says, so we will not be here then.....(he might not believe that)....but that is what is going to happen, so don't sweat it sister.

 

[Radagast]

The return of Christ is certainly foundational.

Not arguing with that.

Lengthy debates on what "scorpions" mean in Revelation 9:10, not so foundational.

 

[Douggg]

The mark of the beast cannot even exist until after the Rev 13:1 beast is ruling, and not before the second beast rises and causes people to make the image of the beast. Then the FP will cause the image to be alive and not until all of that does he issue out the mark. It has nothing to do with Muslims plus the mark can be on the forehead or the right hand which further disproves your forehead callus theory.

I am beginning to think the mark could be some visible mark embedded in the skin, a silhouette of a risen angel or person, which would be associated with the beast person's name and his coming back life.

His coming back to life is what is going to fortify to the world his claim of being God and their desire to be like him.

 

[Radagast]

It just makes me have anxiety because sometimes I’m scared we have already been marked. But I know it’s anxiety

Matthew 6:25 “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life? 28 And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31 Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

34 “Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

 

[friend of]

That's not true. The mark isn't imposed worldwide. That's what the experts are telling you but it's not true. The mark is the Islamic zebiba and it will only be active within the Islamic Empire or Caliphate of the beast.

There's not one reason to presume any Church would accept it. The only Christians required to do so would be those within the empire of the beast. This is the mark...

Hello Mr. Bunker. Thanks for posting, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here on what the mark is. One of the most pointed scriptures on the topic is Revelation 13:16-17

[16] And he causeth ALL, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, OR in their foreheads

This passage is clearly talking about an entity (be it antichrist, false prophet, beast or organization) administering the mark on ALL. The text does not state —"all within a false theocratic state"— as you are suggesting, but "small and great" and "rich and poor" are meant to apply to people of every stripe, creed, religion and culture of the world. The evil one doesn't just want Muslims to worship him, either.

If the mark is the zebiba, then how exactly would it be enforced en masse? The zebiba is a callous on the forehead that occurs after years of prostrations. Are you suggesting that this entity will have the manpower and surveillance capacity to somehow force vast multitudes, most of whom do not ascribe to Islam, to prostrate themselves 5x a day, for years and years, until they develop zebiba on their foreheads before they are allowed to function as a member of this society? How would that be possible? Are they supposed to wait the decades it will take for the callous to form before they can buy and sell? That would take too long; the evil one's time is short, and he wants to damn as many as fast as possible.

And what of the mark in the hand? Those of your position have said the mark in the hand could be the holding of Koran when performing transactions. This is a terrible theory because there is no way to ensure its enforcement when parties trade privately out of sight of the entity which enforces the mark. This fact points toward the mark being technological in nature. Financial parameters which can be enforced by the entity indirectly. Technology accomplishes this.

Also, if one were to be without their Koran, they would essentially not have the mark anymore, but we know this is not correct because once one has accepted the mark there is no going back, indicating the mark has to be something that is now a part of that person. Something that changes them internally and forever in the sight of God. Merely holding an item doesn't do this, so I am curious as to your theory of what the mark in the hand is, if you have an alternative.

...OR in their foreheads:

Now, I argue it is impossible for any devout Muslim to only have the mark (zebiba) in their forehead and not their hand. Why? Because the zebiba will only be obtained through fanatic dedication to Islam. Meaning, if the mark is on their forehead, it must, without fail, be present in their right hand as well, for they will certainly utilize their right hand for reading the Koran and performing its works. Logically, one cannot be a fanatical Muslim and not have both marks. However, Rev 13:16 clearly states that the mark is in one or the other; the hand or the head. Not both. So what, then, is the mark in the hand?

You stated that the right hand has significance in Islam, but it also has significance in Christianity (the same significance, IIRC) Isaiah 41:10. The right hand of God demonstrates His holy favour toward His children, whilst His left hand inflicts punishment on those who incur His disfavour 58 Bible verses about Right Hand Of God

What do you think about children? Will the children or mentally disabled be forced to take it against their will?

I think there will be a window where this will be possible and will happen for some of them, but it will be extremely brief (perhaps only a few years or less). Matthew 24:22 suggests that it will not progress for long.

DO NOT TRUST MEN. Do not trust governments (even for now when they might be used like Egypt was used by Yahweh) before the 'mrak' is final and damning ...

It is better to trust in God than man.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Not arguing with that.

Lengthy debates on what "scorpions" mean in Revelation 9:10, not so foundational.

It appears a lot like what was happening during the 70ad siege of Jerusalem.......
Scorpions stings are quite painful...........

REVELATION 9:6 'MEN WILL BE SEEKING THE DEATH, DEATH IS FLEEING FROM THEM"

Revelation 9:
5 and it was given to them that they may not kill them, but that they may be tormented five months,[which is how long the siege of Jerusalem was in 70ad]
and their torment<929> as the torment of a scorpion, when it may strike a man;
6 And in those days the men shall seeking the death, and not no shall be finding it;
and they shall be desiring/yearning<1937> to be dying, and the death is fleeing from them

Matthew 24:19
“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those, the days!
Mark 13:17
“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
Luke 21:23
“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.
Luk 23:
29 “For indeed the days are coming in which they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, wombs that never bore, and breasts which never nursed!’

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover

Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive.
The Jews, for of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen.
In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal ;.............................

At the recital of this melancholy and affecting occurrence, the whole city stood aghast, and poured forth their congratulations on those whom death had hurried away from such heartrending scenes.

Eze 14:21
For thus says the Lord GOD: “How much more it shall be when I send My four severe judgments on Jerusalem—the sword and famine and wild beasts and pestilence—to cut off man and beast from it?
Jer 19:9
And I have caused them to eat the flesh of their sons, and the flesh of their daughters, and each the flesh of his friend they do eat, in the siege and in the straitness with which straiten them do their enemies, and those seeking their life.

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[ewq1938]

It just makes me have anxiety because sometimes I’m scared we have already been marked. But I know it’s anxiety

The mark isn't here yet but beware...IMO the AC will pretend to be Jesus and will fool many so take Christ's own advice:

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

 

[ewq1938]

Negative, don't believe that.....God is a gracious God only rejects those who knowingly reject him. The Mark of the Beast will not happen until after the Rapture anyway, like ewq 1938 says, so we will not be here then.....(he might not believe that)....

The rapture happens when Christ returns not before the trib begins. A great many Christians will fall to the AC in the Apostasy.

 

[ewq1938]

I am beginning to think the mark could be some visible mark embedded in the skin, a silhouette of a risen angel or person, which would be associated with the beast person's name and his coming back life.


His coming back to life is what is going to fortify to the world his claim of being God and their desire to be like him.

The AC does not die or resurrect nor is he ever wounded.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The mark isn't here yet but beware...IMO the AC will pretend to be Jesus and will fool many so take Christ's own advice:

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

According to Josephus, the 70ad siege of Jerusalem took only 5 months to completely demolish the City and Temple.
Coincidentally, the flood covered the earth for 150 days.......how ironic is that?

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:
2 And answering He said to them, “ are ye not seeing all these?
Amen I am saying to ye, not no may be being left here stone upon stone, which not shall be being thrown-down/demolished<2647>.”

Matthew 24
19 And woe to those with child, and to those giving suck in those days;
22 And if those days were not shortened no flesh would have been saved; but because of the chosen, shall those days be shortened
Mark 13
17 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
20 and if the Lord did not shorten the days, no flesh had been saved; but because of the chosen, whom He did choose to Himself, He did shorten/ekolobwsen <2856> (5656) the days.
Luke 21:
22 “For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

...............This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A.D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months, the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.........

Before their final demolition, however, Titus took a survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?"

Revelation 9:
5 and it was given to them that they may not kill them, but that they may be tormented five months,[which is how long the siege of Jerusalem was in 70ad]

Genesis 7:24
And the waters prevailed on the earth one hundred and fifty days.


.

 

[Revealing Times]

The rapture happens when Christ returns not before the trib begins. A great many Christians will fall to the AC in the Apostasy.

Which is why I placed a parenthetical citation into the equation, you understanding that the Mark of the Beast comes after the Rev. 13:1 Beast comes onto the scene might not make you one who can see the actual timing as I do. Thus the point of emphasis.

Now that I know your opinion I will have to cite someone else as per the correct Rapture timing, but I can cite you as understanding the Mark of the Beast can't come until after the Beast.

I will not be here nor will any other Christians during the 70th Week. What we believe or don't believe is not going to change the facts.

 

[ewq1938]

Revelation 9:
5 and it was given to them that they may not kill them, but that they may be tormented five months,[which is how long the siege of Jerusalem was in 70ad]




.

Except the Romans did kill people so it's not about Ad70 in that verse. Also in Rev 11, the city of Jerusalem is undamaged until the very last day of the GT and the damage only comes from an Earthquake which causes 1/10th of the city to fall. Doesn't sound like Ad70 huh?

Siege of Jerusalem | Facts & Summary

BTW, according to britannica.com (and other sites), the siege of Jerusalem was 4 years not 150 days. Jewish revolt started in Ad66 and it took the Romans 4 years until April Ad70 to end that revolt and reclaim everything taken in the revolt.

So, Ad70 does not match anything in the book of Rev or the great tribulation.

 

[ewq1938]

I will not be here nor will any other Christians during the 70th Week. What we believe or don't believe is not going to change the facts.

Everyone will be here until the second coming and then no one goes away. The rapture is only to gather together the living saints where ever they are in the world to one location with Christ so the end destination of the Rapture is the Earth anyways.

 

[Revealing Times]

The mark isn't here yet but beware...IMO the AC will pretend to be Jesus and will fool many so take Christ's own advice:

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

He needs to fool only one subset of people, those that Flee Judea and are the ELECTED Jews who are protected in Petra. The Church is in Heaven, the Remnant Church are the Martyrs under the Altar in Seal #5. The Beast can get at everyone but the Jews in Petra, so he's only going to try and trick them, to no avail, Jesus told them where they could see him coming from, the Eastern Skies.

So while he will try to deceive them, being the Messiah is just not big on his agenda. Being the Beast who is adored and worshiped as the ONLY GOD is his intention.

 

[Revealing Times]

Everyone will be here until the second coming and then no one goes away. The rapture is only to gather together the living saints where ever they are in the world to one location with Christ so the end destination of the Rapture is the Earth anyways.

That is not what the bible says, and that is what my guide is. You guys just don't see what is obvious to me and most Christians. I don't get it to be honest, it's just not that hard to see.

 

[Dr. D Bunker]

bye